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eReaders a great things. I love my Sony 505 especially walking down some of the never ending concourses in big airports. I wish the 505 had the Kindle's wireless ability but other than that the Kindle offers the consumer little for the price for being so tied to Amazon, much more so than the iPod is to Apple. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge that is deluding themselves.

More importantly though, what really needs to happen for readers to become true consumer items is for publishers to endorse a single eBook format standard that will work in all eBook Readers. Readers will not become popular until that happens. Right now it's Beta vs VHS, etc, etc. I don't care about the DRM as much as not being able to read a Sony purchased book on a Kindle or vice versa.

I agree wholeheartedly! There needs to be a standards based e-book format that can be played back on a variety of hardware and not necessarily just e-ink display devices.

Hardware specific DRM models need to be chucked in favor of simple watermark based stamping of copyrighted/purchased works.
 
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I'll laugh my ass off when Amazon gets sued for it being too susceptible to coffee spills, someone left it on the couch and the dog jumped up and crushed it, or better yet you forgot it was there and you rolled over on it after you fell asleep while reading on the couch.

Let me ask you: if the nano and air are so thin, then why haven't there been similar suits about them. THIS IS NOT A FRAGILE DEVICE PEOPLE, IT'S JUST AS SOLID AS YOUR IPODS.
 
sure...

I agree wholeheartedly! There needs to be a standards based e-book format that can be played back on a variety of hardware and not necessarily just e-ink display devices.

Hardware specific DRM models need to be chucked in favor of simple watermark based stamping of copyrighted/purchased works.

That would be nice, but the chances of a standards based reader having a purchasing experience as seamless as Amazon is about zero. Just like you're not going to find an Ogg Vorbis player that has an online store that works anything like iTunes does on the iPhone.

I understand the risk - after a nuclear war, or some Amazon bankruptcy, I can't buy any more books, and if my device breaks I can't get them back. But some people are ok with that. If that happened to iTunes, I'm out $1000 or so on music I didn't convert to Plus I guess. I've lost a lot more money in my life - on things I didn't even get to enjoy.

The experience is worth the money and worth the risk. Someday maybe there will be some amazing anti-DRM revolution and all my books will be freed. Great. But right now, what I've got gives me a lot of joy.
 
I don't think you will find too many people arguing that the Kindle is anything other than a niche product. It's definitely aimed at people who do a lot of reading or have the disposable income to enjoy the convenience of being able to download and read their books in a very painless fashion.

The reality is that entire huge businesses are made from niche products. Additionally what used to be niche (iPod) often becomes a mainstream and indispensable product when the market matures.

Right, this is what I mean. I'm not saying that the product is completely pointless. I think its a nice product, I think it's useful, but niche . . yes.
 
As a Kindle owner...

I'd like to ask... as Mac users - do you remember when you tried to tell people how great the Mac experience was to other people, and they just laughed at you and called you a zealot? Remember all those arguments about design over features, about the HOW something works instead of what it just does on paper?

A lot of you are showing the same shocking lack of insight and open mindedness about something you haven't really experienced. Just like the Windows users did.

It is really disappointing to see.
 
Won't Amazon just kill themselves if they sell eBooks on the iPhone? It has all the advantages over the Kindle! Smaller, Higher capacity, colour display, larger market, etc.

Ams.

Kindle has the advantages of ePaper and longer battery life.
Disadvantage is that is a niche product.... good for only a few things.

I have to think that the Kindle is Amazon's way of building up the content market. I think that's where they want to make money, not in building, developing and supporting hardware. I don't think that their long term strength.

So with that in mind, they want to get people buying e-books, platform be damned.

Guess a few years will tell.
As for me, give me a nice squishy paperback. (Althought I can see eBooks for technical stuff.)
 
The iPhone can display a movie too, but I don't see people junking their TVs for the "convenience" of having a converged device like the iPhone to watch movies on.

The iPhone is an extremely poor device to read a book on, the Kindle is about 100X better and comes closer to actually reading a printed page.

Hardly. Now your just pulling stuff out of your *ss. In landscape, the Iphone/Ipod is great for reading fiction based ebooks. The Kindel (yes I've seen one in person) is better true, but saying the other is useless or poor is simply untrue.
 
DRM Warning

There is a place for ePaper readers, they are different to active screens and easier to read from. I read books on Macs, Palms and iPod/Phones. The form factor persuaded me to buy an eBook, but not from one of the control freaks.

What I find amazing is that you are all so acceptant of the DRM issues (Sony of all people!).

Get a Bebook - they are the same ePaper as all the rest, as cheap as the Sony and the Dutch developers have an open Linux OS that adds more book formats every month (pdb in January I believe). Batteries are standard Nokia phone ones and charges last for weeks/000 pages.

Works on a Mac better than on a PC. You can get an amazing number of books onto an SD card - good old Project Gutenberg or Mobibooks

About the only downside is that the Sony is silver and the BeBook is black - but you can't have everything
 
AThe other thing about e-books is their life time. Will you be able to read it in 10 years? Who knows? Amazon may decide they are not making enough money and drop the whole scheme.

I bought my first ebook from Peanut Press on "2001-05-14" (i just copied that from the entry). I can still read it.... and when i paid $17 for it (new release hardback, so it was cheaper at PP than in the store), i actually didn't care if i couldn't read it again.... it was great to read on my Sony Clie.

I'm not worried about someone the size of Amazon not being there for me to read the book in the future. If "Peanut Press" can hang around, so can Amazon.

I'd like a kindle 2, but well, my budget won't allow it and i'll get a Touch first.
 
Hardly. Now your just pulling stuff out of your *ss. In landscape, the Iphone/Ipod is great for reading fiction based ebooks. The Kindel (yes I've seen one in person) is better true, but saying the other is useless or poor is simply untrue.

And yes, by the time the iPhone user finishes the novel (taking periodic breaks to offset the serious eye strain of reading on a bright-lit 3-inch screen, and recharge the battery), the Kindle 3 will be out. :eek:

The iPhone is a great device, but e-book reader it is not.
 
really, once you can buy premium book content on your iPhone, then the kindle becomes pointless. It's a specialty device whose functionality will be absorbed by smartphones.


arn

Why post something when you don't know what you're talking about? eInk technology is vastly superior, for reading, than ANY other electronics device. That's not going to change anytime soon. Perhaps you don't read, or perhaps you've never seen an eReader in person. Whatever the case, avoid making such absolute statements without considering other factors besides the immediate fact that a book can be electronic and the iPhone can read electronic books. Hell, I CAN take pictures on my iPhone, but my DSLR is a lot better...

Just because some people find the iPhone alright to read on doesn't mean the future of books are going to be on a 3 inch screen that causes eyestrain for extended reading and necessitates blocking your reading area to flip pages.
 
In landscape, the Iphone/Ipod is great for reading fiction based ebooks. The Kindel (yes I've seen one in person) is better true, but saying the other is useless or poor is simply untrue.

For those of us who read faster than your average third grader, the iPhone is not great for reading by any stretch of the imagination. And that's not subjective.
 
For those of us who read faster than your average third grader, the iPhone is not great for reading by any stretch of the imagination. And that's not subjective.

Then I guess I'm the exception, because I honestly can spend hours reading books on the iPhone (or Palm TX, my original e-reader). I don't know why since I understand the majority do get eye strain, but I consider myself fortunate as it means I can carry my library on a small device. A Kindle would be nice to have, but I agree the price is the greatest deterrent.

Also ITA that ebooks would fare better if there was more standard formatting. I'm extremely grateful that I mostly went eReader on the Palm, but I still have some Mobipocket DRM'd books that I can't get on the iPhone as there's no native app (quite possibly no thanks to Amazon). :mad:
 
I haven't tried the Kindle, so I'm not going to say 'it's useless' or 'poorly designed' or whatnot, but I don't really like the form factor of it. Maybe it's just the physical keys it has - if it were a touchscreen I might feel differently.

But I get along perfectly well with physical books, audio books, and the occasional book I read on my Touch when I'm away from home. It isn't hard to read on it (for me, but I seem to be younger than a lot of you posting here), but it's not the same as having a real book. And, of course, an audio book beats both as far as listening in the car goes while I'm driving. Can't exactly read and drive, unless I want to get in a wreck. :)
 
I think most people in this thread are missing the point of the Kindle entirely.

There are other company out there that, unlike Apple, are willing to sell/develop a device not intended for the mainstream audience. Not every company develops a product with an immediate expectation to see one on every street corner.

Amazon, as a company is something that bases it's entire business model on something that has limited appeal to the consumer (being an online retailer), and why is it so much of a surprise that they released the Kindle? It's been a huge success, and as evident by it's constantly "sold-out" status, exceeded Amazon's own expectations.

Steve Jobs said:
It doesn’t matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people don’t read anymore,” he said. “Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people don’t read anymore."
This blatantly shows Steve's (and Apple's as a result) arrogant philosophy on what "successful" is. 40% of America reads one book or less, yet the industry as a whole is still putting up sales of $25 billion, compared to the declining growth of the Music Industry..

I also find it quite ironic that the Kindle, in it's first year, roughly what the first iPod did when people thought it was pointless. Amazon is in exactly the same position

The Kindle is a great product with a promising future, and I find it funny that people on this forum are willing to write it off so quickly.
 
...The main issue with these free iPhone readers, however, has been the lack of premium content (new releases) that is found on the Kindle...

That may be true, when speaking of current 10-best-list books. But don't assume there's not lots of good reading material available for the iPhone.

using stanza, for ex, i searched for a favorite author--british mystery writer Dick Francis--and found half a dozen of his novels, ranging from his most recent best seller that's not even in paperback yet, to others as cheap as $6.99. I've been in Barnes & Noble and Borders bookstores recently with not as good a selection of his books. So I was impressed.

AppleTV would be a much better product if it had even one tenth the movie selection Stanza has in books for the iPhone.
 
Well, premium book content isn't all it cracks up to be.
The main problem is that 'premium' bit. I am at a loss to understand why an ebook costs more than a paperback, in fact I would think a couple of dollars at the most would be a fair price. Anyway, Stanza can upload all kinds of things, and the 'premium' issue completely goes away..(emphasis by the responder):)

I'm not sure what you mean. When I searched for books by british author dick francis the half dozen titles available ranged from 6.99 for an old one to $23.95, if i recall correctly, for his newest book that's still available only in hardbound. Isn't that a premium price? Or are you referring to something else?
 
Come on, this is a "to each his/her own". I have read numerous ebooks on my iphone and I love it. I have like 12 books on it right now and read from it every day. The screen doesn't bother my eyes the way it does others. My wife has the Sony Digital Reader (and she loves it) so I am very familiar with the e-ink technology. I guess I really don't see the argument. If my wife prefers the Sony and I prefer the iphone, why is one better than the other? I love that my books go with me wherever I go, and that I can slip it in my pocket, and I can read in the dark and invert the screen. Of course my iphone has a zillion other functions as well. I'm going to have an iphone no matter what so I'm going to be paying for the monthly fee and the device. To have to add an additional $360 plus having to carry another device just doesn't sound appealing. But if the iphone irritates you because of the small screen and and backlight (which is my wife's argument), then I can see where the Kindle could be worth it to a heavy reader. I'm glad there's both devices even though I think the Kindle is too overpriced.
 
I toyed with the idea of getting a kindle; it's definitely convenient, and saves space. But, for a few bucks more, I can get an ACTUAL book. E-ink is nice, and portability is nice... but I've never had to put a book down because it's batteries died. I recycle, subscribe to virtual magazines, ride my bicycle and walk when possible... but I have walls of books. I can't imagine changing that.

For reading purposes and reading purposes only, Kindle is vastly superior. It comes close to actual text-on-age visual aesthetic. It is a one-trick pony that is good at what it does. I can't imagine reading books on my iPhone on a regular basis.
 
We are not all technically oriented

My wife's birthday is coming up shortly - about the same date as the Kindle 2 which I ordered from Amazon. She reads books but does not do computers. This will be perfect for her. I chose this over the SONY because of the wireless book download capability and the greater choice in text size. Most of my reading is NOT books and is done on my Mac. I do not own an iPhone because I do not like AT&T, and I don't want to switch from T-Mobile. I would buy an iPhone if it were available for T-Mobile. Either way, I cannot see reading a book on a device with a screen the size of the iPhone.

People making comments about the price on this discussion don't mention anything about how much they are paying for their phone bills, their internet, their cable/satellite TV, their digital cameras, etc. Paying for the Kindle is probably less of a problem than paying for these other technologies. I really expect newer versions of the Kindle to be lower priced, and I would expect the prices of the electronic versions of the books and newspapers to lower in the future, especially as more and more newspapers have to quit doing business.

Lastly, I can see that we won't have stacks and stacks of books in all sorts of strange places after my wife receives her birthday Kindle.;)
 
Stupid should not be proud.

Three things that seem to keep coming up on this thread SERIOUSLY annoy me.

Firstly, if you don't read books -- neither physical paper and binding nor ebooks -- then you'd best shut up. I mean, if you don't read books then... you're probably ignorant, since books contain knowledge. And you're probably stupid, since if you were intellectually curious, you would've been inclined to pick up a book to see what it was about. So, basically, if you proudly declare that you don't read books, you're basically declaring that you're a moron. I guess it figures that those people aren't smart enough to know not to do that. So, as a favor, I'll just tell you "non-readers" out there that you'd be well advised to shut up about not-reading. In fact, given the likely intelligence of someone who doesn't read books (I mean, seriously... what planet do these people live on?), you'd probably be well advised to shut up about damn near every subject that comes to your feeble, illiterate minds.

Secondly, to those people who say that book-lovers are old-fashioned. Give me a break. Maybe in 100 years books will be old-fashioned. But are you really comparing every person that walks into a Barnes and Noble to some Cro-Magnon trying to start fire by rubbing two sticks together? If you think that books are old-fashioned, you live in some star trek fantasy land. Books are the primary form of whereby serious knowledge is communicated. And there's a good reason for that. Physical books are fantastic. I like the way they smell, the way they feel, the way they read. I like turning each crisp page. And I don't have to pay $350 for reflected light. They just come that way. Whether you think they should have that central role is another question, but it is simply preposterous (dare I say "imbecilic") to claim that books are obsolete.

Thirdly, while books may be king now, devices like the Kindle may eventually replace them. I'm not so sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. The only real down-side to books that I can see is that they don't really make very efficient use of space. If you own several thousand books, that will take a considerable amount of shelf-space. I'm not so sure that's such a down-side if you can afford it, since I like the feeling of being ensconced in a room where every wall is covered in books. In any case, I think a lot of the criticism of Kindle is just Apple fanaticism gone awry. I love Apple as much as the next guy (I wouldn't be here if I didn't). But other companies out there make decent products, and blindly knocking a product just because Steve Jobs says that nobody reads anymore is unreasonable. I like Steve Jobs a heck-of-a-lot, but he's not a friggin' prophet, and I think that "nobody reads anymore" comment reflected a pretty dim view of the general population. If it's true, then there's no end to the pity and contempt I feel for "people" generally. That said, I think it's not true, and I think Steve was talking out of his arse.

Kindle looks like a very good product. The criticism about that dinky looking keyboard seems spot-on to me. I wish they got rid of it, or replaced it with something less... dinky. Still, the general tone of this thread has me rather upset with the abnormally large number of abnormally small-minded posts.
 
I like the way they smell, the way they feel, the way they read. I like turning each crisp page. And I don't have to pay $350 for reflected light. They just come that way. Whether you think they should have that central role is another question, but it is simply preposterous (dare I say "imbecilic") to claim that books are obsolete.

I read a lot and I think you're off here. I understand that you like the way they smell and feel, but there's really no better feeling than having one device that looks and acts like paper that can be all of your books, or at least a huge selection of them. Once you actually get used to using an eReader, all that sentimentality you had for dead-tree books gets transferred to the eReader. After all, it's the actual words that are important...


Kindle looks like a very good product. The criticism about that dinky looking keyboard seems spot-on to me. I wish they got rid of it, or replaced it with something less... dinky.

That's why I have the Bookeen Cybook Gen3 http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h1540.jpg

Beautiful device that I love. It's about 60% the weight of the Kindle and just as thin as the new one. It's super compact because there's no keyboard and it supports the Mobipocket format. Great device, I recommend it 100%.


Still, the general tone of this thread has me rather upset with the abnormally large number of abnormally small-minded posts.

Same. People saying books are done because Steve said no one reads. To be sure, many more people listen to music than read now, especially with the younger generations, but the hype and sales numbers of the Kindle proves that there is a market. You know what I say? Let all these people who don't read continue not to. It just means I'll be smarter and better-read than they will, and that's fine by me.
 
lol stevie also said noone wanted to watch video on the ipod... make it happen apple.
 
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