Amazon Unveils Kindle 2, eBooks for the iPhone?

[mcavjame]

And really, anyone who's saying that they can read novels off the iPhone have either never tried to read off their mobile phone for hours, or don't know the benefits of an eReader. The device requires no power unless I "flip" pages. That's why this device can last for weeks at a time. The only thing that prevents the device from lasting forever is batteries lose charge over time, even when they're not being used. That's it.

I read for hours at a time on the iPod touch. While this is not the iPhone, I think they are similar enough to be considered the same. I know the benefits of the Kindle and similar devices, but there are a few considerations for making the decision:
- I carry one device for contacts, music, movies, calendar, ereading
- I can slip the ipod in my shirt pocket and always have it with me.
- I used to read on my Palm PDA, and my ereader library is compatible with the ipod/iphone
- Kindle is a US only product
- I almost purchased a Cybook a while back, but the library is not compatible and it's another $300 to spend when I am already content with using my current method.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

That's quite ridiculous and akin to arguments made that a portable phone could never handle the rigors of being placed in a pocket or hand bag and "banged about".

No it's not. The torque on that larger surface, combined with a thinner casing invariablly makes it a far less structurally sound product.

The only way to offset this is to provide high strength polymer shells to redistribute the load away from the screen and the circuit board.

Phones have the advantage of a small form factor. If you think these devices are going to replace textbooks and suddenly we're going to be walking around with virtual tutors you're nuts.

We have pathetic standards in this country when it comes to graduating from pre-university curriculums. It's steadily declined since the end of WWII.

The more you want this device to be like an all purpose computer the more it stops addressing its reason for existing.

The more you make it trendy as being ultrathin, the more rapidly you'll see broken systems.

These devies will get tossed in with random books, bags, documentation, put on tables and knocked off, so on and so forth.

I'll laugh my ass off when Amazon gets sued for it being too susceptible to coffee spills, someone left it on the couch and the dog jumped up and crushed it, or better yet you forgot it was there and you rolled over on it after you fell asleep while reading on the couch.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Amazon is selling DRM's e-books. When you buy one the license to read it can go away at any time. You can only read the e-book you paid for on this one reader. You can't re-sell or even loan your e-book. e-books sell for about the same price as the hard back edition even if there is already a paper back available. One would think the e-book should sell for even less than the paperback because the cost to make an e-book is even less.

Also why pay $359 just so you can shop in Amazon's e-book store?

Same can be said for Apples' ATV. If the ATV sells for $300 and moves sell for $15 then your fist move's real price is $315. If you watch 10 movies the price is $45 each. Even if you watch 100 the price is $18 each.

Same reasoning here. Kindle adds to the price of the books. How many people read 100 books a year? If you don't it would be cheaper to buy the hard back ed. of each book

The other thing about e-books is their life time. Will you be able to read it in 10 years? Who knows? Amazon may decide they are not making enough money and drop the whole scheme.

Buying an e-book with the idea of keeping it is not good. What's needed is a non-DRM's book format that has readers built by many different companies. Like MP3 is for sound. Well we have it already PDF is just that.

Better yet, what would be the demand for used ebooks? Amazon has a massive reseller program that draws people into Amazon. I buy at least 15 books per year from that system.

I've bought 6 Calculus books of various disciplines with that system. I've got several physics, several mechanical engineering books of specific subdisciplines and of course entire series of novels because of that system.

It's not going away. Amazon has a niche product and it knows it can't count on it to replace books. It's a niche that addresses the needs of some, not most.

 

[h.21]

Looks like the current nano, heh.

 

[mchalebk]

Same can be said for Apples' ATV. If the ATV sells for $300 and moves sell for $15 then your fist move's real price is $315. If you watch 10 movies the price is $45 each. Even if you watch 100 the price is $18 each.

Sorry, but this is a bad analogy. You don’t have to actually purchase any additional material to take advantage of some of AppleTV’s capabilities. I use mine mainly for music playback (most of which I already owned) along with my photo collection acting as screensaver. The secondary usage (in my case) is for home movies. I have only rented one movie and that was only to try it out.

The Kindle is pretty much useless without purchasing additional content. The AppleTV can do quite a lot without purchasing additional content.

 

[Jack Flash]

Sorry, but this is a bad analogy. You don’t have to actually purchase any additional material to take advantage of some of AppleTV’s capabilities. I use mine mainly for music playback (most of which I already owned) along with my photo collection acting as screensaver. The secondary usage (in my case) is for home movies. I have only rented one movie and that was only to try it out.

The Kindle is pretty much useless without purchasing additional content. The AppleTV can do quite a lot without purchasing additional content.

No, it's a perfect analogy.

The AppleTV doesn't come with music, movies or picture you have to supply (that is, buy) them yourself. Just because you already own the media doesn't change the reality of what processes took place for you to enjoy it on your AppleTV.

 

[wronski]

Sorry, but this is a bad analogy. You don’t have to actually purchase any additional material to take advantage of some of AppleTV’s capabilities. I use mine mainly for music playback (most of which I already owned) along with my photo collection acting as screensaver. The secondary usage (in my case) is for home movies. I have only rented one movie and that was only to try it out.

The Kindle is pretty much useless without purchasing additional content. The AppleTV can do quite a lot without purchasing additional content.

You're wrong. There are thousands of free eBooks available online at sites like Feedbooks. You can also put eBooks you already own on the Kindle.

 

[JGowan]

Jobs has already made it clear that in his opinion "print is dead" and that e-books are a waste of time, so explain how Apple will take a great idea, the e-book and make it better when the CEO thinks it's a dead product?

Yeah, I know --> "The idea is flawed from the top. Nobody reads anymore." -- Steve Jobs

He also said he'd never do movies on iTunes; rent movies; make a phone, etc. Oh... let's not forget the Apple and their 5 year secret of writing a version of OS X for intel -- Jobs says what he says -- call it lying, playing his cards at the right time, whatever. People do read and he knows it. The iPhone has too much momentum right now to throw another $700 product into the mix.

Apparently you don't understand that the Kindle has been sold out consistently since release. The Kindle 2 will in all likelihood also be sold out for most of the year even with a down economy.

It sold out because they didn't make enough -- I could have 25 of something to sell and sell them all and need to take more orders, does that mean that my product is mass-market? No. It meant I didn't make enough to start with. I have made a good start, but that's all. Apple sold millions of phones and then ran out, but people weren't saying they were mass-market. 400,000 of something is a good beginning. The iPod sold 400K in the beginning and it's opponents said we'll see. Apple proved them wrong and it become the phenom that it is. But the Kindle will never do that because it's a one-trick pony.

What you and many other convergence advocates fail to appreciate is the difference between an LCD display and an E-Ink display. Until an LCD can do what an e-ink display does, or vice versa there is no overlap in these product areas that is going to broadly succeed.

We'll see -- I think if Apple puts its collective mind to it, they can (and will) invent things that will boggle our minds for decades to come.

 

[mchalebk]

No, it's a perfect analogy.

The AppleTV doesn't come with music, movies or picture you have to supply (that is, buy) them yourself. Just because you already own the media doesn't change the reality of what processes took place for you to enjoy it on your AppleTV.

You're wrong. There are thousands of free eBooks available online at sites like Feedbooks. You can also put eBooks you already own on the Kindle.

These are fair points, but I still disagree. The average person has a reasonable (or even large) collection of music that they already own to populate their AppleTV. They also are likely to have a fair collection of digital photos to display.The average person might own a reasonable (or even large) collection of books, but these won’t load into the Kindle. Not very many people have much of an eBook collection at their disposal and most probably have none at all.

 

[tk421]

Clearly this device is not for you. Why are you spending so much time marketing against it?...

It's a discussion board. Veri is discussing. I am actually finding it very enjoyable. In fact, I'm skipping most posts and just reading ones from Veri or quoting Veri. There are some excellent points on both sides.


Now for my own 2 cents. In comparing the Kindle to other digital media such as the original iPod, I see one major difference. With the iPod, the final delivery of music to ears comes through speakers or headphones - exactly the same as before the iPod. On top of that are all sorts of benefits: you now have a huge library in a convenient form factor, you can shuffle or browse easily, etc. etc.

With Kindle, the reading process itself is different. Now I admit that I have not used a Kindle before (so I'm not commeting on Kindle's e-ink technology) but I have read a short story on the iPhone. The actual process of "opening" the book and "flipping pages" is very different. When I put it away, place a bookmark, and later pull it out in a new environment, the process is different.

The e-book transition will be a slower transition than digital music or video. And there will always be books in widespread use, even after e-books are popular (and I think they will catch on more and more). They will co-exist. In contrast, I don't expect physical CDs or other music formats to exist other than small niches.

 

[tk421]

The "horse and carriage" argument is often brought up by writers who want to convince you of a great new fix to something that isn't broken. But cars did not suddenly replace animals everywhere because someone shouted "this is the future!" repeatedly - instead they've replaced animals where the price, speed and efficiency of the car and the infrastructure of some country have made it a better investment than taking a horse. The e-book does not enjoy analogous advantages over the book, neither in individual utility or in global infrastructure (most places in the third world, and anywhere in the first world if disaster resilience for a civilisation's knowledge is important) terms.

...

No. It doesn't matter how much better cars get per se. People will choose cars only when cars suit their needs more than horses, or the infrastructure around them makes it impossible to keep a horse.

That is spot on. Ted Levitt, a marketing guru at Harvard Business School, said, "People don't buy products. They buy solutions to problems."


EDIT: Didn't mean to post two in a row. Mods, feel free to merge these.

 

[jmpage2]

That is spot on. Ted Levitt, a marketing guru at Harvard Business School, said, "People don't buy products. They buy solutions to problems."


EDIT: Didn't mean to post two in a row. Mods, feel free to merge these.

But the Kindle is solving a problem. The problem being the acquisition, transport and storage of large numbers of books. Lots of technologies can solve the problem poorly, with LCD screens and the like. The Kindle solves the problem with a display that looks very much like paper.

 

[Neuroguy]

iPhone as a Ebook Reader - Egads!

If Apple expects people to read books on the iPHONE, they should invest heavily in the eyecare industry. Contact lenses, glasses, etc.

I'm sorry, but while the Kindle is not the perfect device, it is LEAGUES better than the iPHONE as an ebook reader.

Neuroguy

 

[Veri]

In comparing the Kindle to other digital media such as the original iPod, I see one major difference. With the iPod, the final delivery of music to ears comes through speakers or headphones - exactly the same as before the iPod.

Indeed...

But the Kindle is solving a problem. The problem being the acquisition, transport and storage of large numbers of books.

..and people who hoard copies of books can already buy large hard drives.

 

[mac jones]

If Apple would just make a larger iphone with a bigger battery they would grab some of that Kindle business.

The Newton trauma must really be pretty bad

 

[peter2]

I think you really have your finger on the pulse of the market. Clearly, paper books will lock up the tremendous scuba reading segment.

+1

 

[jmpage2]

..and people who hoard copies of books can already buy large hard drives.

This makes no sense at all. This isn't about simple storage of books digitally, but the transportation of books, etc.

For example;

Millions of people read avidly during their lunch breaks, while on vacation, when traveling for business, etc. Normally if you like to read new release books this means dragging a large heavy hard cover book with you every where. If you happen to finish a book while out and about you must go out and purchase a new one. If you might want to also read the newspaper or a magazine then you are carrying those items as well.

Kindle solves these problems, and I'm sorry you can't appreciate this fact.

 

[tk421]

But the Kindle is solving a problem. The problem being the acquisition, transport and storage of large numbers of books....

...For example;

Millions of people read avidly during their lunch breaks, while on vacation, when traveling for business, etc. Normally if you like to read new release books this means dragging a large heavy hard cover book with you every where. If you happen to finish a book while out and about you must go out and purchase a new one. If you might want to also read the newspaper or a magazine then you are carrying those items as well....

I guess. Maybe that's a problem to some people.

Here's a fundamental difference between music and books. I listen to the same music over and over. I want my entire music library with me always - hence, an iPod. With books, I have read very few more than once. So when I read on a lunch break or on vacation (and I have done both) I only need to transport my one book I'm reading, maybe two.

That doesn't really address acquisition or storage, but how many people have problems with those?

The other part of it is that the cost of solving the problem must be proportional. For over $300, this has to be a real problem for people and not just a minor inconvenience.

I'm sure there are people that do need a Kindle or other e-book reader to solve this problem, but I can't imagine it's a large number, even of avid readers. And there are probably a decent number of people (people like Veri, I assume) who would actually face new problems to solve by doing away with printed media.

 

[Stately]

E-ink was never intended for video or animated purposes. It is intended as, gasp, an electronic version of INK. It displays words and still images decently.

Haha, we are on to gasping now huh? Well go ahead, the point that has been made here on the forum and that you have obviously missed, is that many more people prefer a device such as the iphone due to the fact that it can do more than just hold text.

 

[jmpage2]

Haha, we are on to gasping now huh? Well go ahead, the point that has been made here on the forum and that you have obviously missed, is that many more people prefer a device such as the iphone due to the fact that it can do more than just hold text.

The iPhone can display a movie too, but I don't see people junking their TVs for the "convenience" of having a converged device like the iPhone to watch movies on.

The iPhone is an extremely poor device to read a book on, the Kindle is about 100X better and comes closer to actually reading a printed page.

 

[Stately]

The iPhone can display a movie too, but I don't see people junking their TVs for the "convenience" of having a converged device like the iPhone to watch movies on.

The iPhone is an extremely poor device to read a book on, the Kindle is about 100X better and comes closer to actually reading a printed page.

I'm speaking realistically. The average person is not going to read 5 novels in even 2 months. The question that gets raised is one of necessity. The functions that the iphone offers are things that are used continuously throughout the day by many. There are applications for business, pleasure and so on . . . To be able to say I have 2,000 books in my pocket is fine, however when will the Kindle be used to the extent that the iphone is used to access different forms, applications etc . . to get things done?

 

[WestonHarvey1]

It's the screen, stupid!

Anyone who makes the convergence argument about ebooks has never read one.

Seriously, after having my retinas burned all day by two computer monitors, my TV and my iPhone, reading a book on my Kindle is like sending my eyes on vacation. It's like a cool breeze on a hot summer day.

I love Jobs, he's a visionary, and that's why I cringed the first time I read his quote. Even if Americans only read one book a year, that still makes books a billion dollar industry.

You can have my Kindle when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

eReaders a great things. I love my Sony 505 especially walking down some of the never ending concourses in big airports. I wish the 505 had the Kindle's wireless ability but other than that the Kindle offers the consumer little for the price for being so tied to Amazon, much more so than the iPod is to Apple. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge that is deluding themselves.

More importantly though, what really needs to happen for readers to become true consumer items is for publishers to endorse a single eBook format standard that will work in all eBook Readers. Readers will not become popular until that happens. Right now it's Beta vs VHS, etc, etc. I don't care about the DRM as much as not being able to read a Sony purchased book on a Kindle or vice versa.

 

[jmpage2]

I'm speaking realistically. The average person is not going to read 5 novels in even 2 months. The question that gets raised is one of necessity. The functions that the iphone offers are things that are used continuously throughout the day by many. There are applications for business, pleasure and so on . . . To be able to say I have 2,000 books in my pocket is fine, however when will the Kindle be used to the extent that the iphone is used to access different forms, applications etc . . to get things done?

I don't think you will find too many people arguing that the Kindle is anything other than a niche product. It's definitely aimed at people who do a lot of reading or have the disposable income to enjoy the convenience of being able to download and read their books in a very painless fashion.

The reality is that entire huge businesses are made from niche products. Additionally what used to be niche (iPod) often becomes a mainstream and indispensable product when the market matures.

 

[html]

Why?

It still looks like an R&D project that not finished to me. When these things are available with colour touchscreens then they will have a chance of replacing printed media. For now it looks like an expensive toy to me.

Is everything you read in color? It's designed so you forget what you're reading on, and it becomes second nature like a book.