Amazon's Fire TV Looks A Lot Like the Rumored Apple TV Update

[ArkhamNative]

1) I have Amazon Prime and get good use out of the $79 price BUT the "Prime" video selection is very thin on quality.
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2) Prime does not offer "free" shipping.
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3) A la carte would be great but isn't happening anytime soon.

1. Price went up to $99 recently. Also, several times in the past year I've noticed Prime's video included programs and series I was curious to watch. So there is some value there.
2. Maybe 95% of the stuff I'm interested in has a "free 2-day shipping with Amazon Prime" on it, even a single $15 USB3 flash drive. (Prime says no minimum order.) I'm not a frequent buyer, otherwise Prime would be a no-brainer.
3. Yeah, I know, it's quite a racket the studios/channels/providers have going.

Also the number of premium services offering exclusive content is increasing (Netflix, Amazon, in addition to HBO, etc.). One "box" (including cable/sat box) can't deliver them all. I still hope Apple can deliver great stuff, rather than just catch up. But some of what I would like is indeed more "miracle" than "insanely great".

 

[Mockenrue]

Sure people are allowed to do so...BUT...when doing so with blind religious zeal some other beings may object.
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To sum it up in one sentence: I only pick on Apple because I know in my guts that with just a little bit less self-centeredness they could deliver products that are so much better then they already are.

This was a GREAT post, and matches my position exactly. Many of us feel that the unyielding zeal of the fan base can contribute to complacency from the company. If more was demanded, more would be given.

As a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, it used to annoy me that they'd get good fan support and ticket sales even though ownership wasn't putting out a good product. Then a new GM got in there and actually started drafting the best available players and attracting decent free agents. End result was a playoff team that followed 20 years of losing seasons. Complacency was the problem, not small market city excuses.

To keep the baseball analogy going, Apple is starting to feel like the Yankees if they decided to ease off and just ride the brand with "good enough" seasons without the "must win the World Series" fire that George Steinbrenner had.

Many of the cynics here really like our Apple products, but we want Apple to know when they are falling short so they will do better. ATV should have been better before now. iPhone should have offered a 4.7" alternative before now. Mac Mini should be THE killer desktop computer for the average consumer by now. Opportunities lost...

 

[newagemac]

It's actually usable if you use it for native playback. And, in my tests, it proved to be significantly better than MiraCast streaming from my Android devices.

Nevertheless, it's indeed laggy (making any kind of action / racing games unplayable) and has significantly worse image quality than anything wired (or native video playback).

Airplay has the EXACT SAME quality as if you watched it directly from the Apple TV. That's because with Airplay, the content isn't actually streamed from your iPhone. The iPhone just tells the Apple TV where to get the content from the router. Most apps have Airplay built in.

Airplay mirroring on the other hand is different because it is a stream from the iPhone so it depends on the quality of your wireless network. I rarely use mirroring though because most video apps support native Airplay.

 

[scottwaugh]

Just give me the movie Extras like Apple TV Gen 1

Give me the movie Extras like the Gen 1 Apple TV still has.

Gen 2 & 3 provide a diminished experience after you purchase the movie (compared to Gen 1 or a Disk) in this respect - with Apple's focus on user experience, I find it hard to understand why they haven't fixed this.

 

[BlendedFrog]

Plex is not something the average Apple user is going to use.

Now that is the biggest load of bull I have heard today. My plex media server runs on my mac mini. All of my media is on my synology nas. I stream out to my roku 3. I can stream plex on my ipad air/iphone 5s/iphone 5/macbook pro retina. I am the average apple user and it is the perfect solution.

You all are naive and a bit arrogant if you think the ATV is going to beat the fire tv. The race is now between the roku and fire tv.

 

[Shivetya]

Main things I want in a streaming device:

• iTunes Streaming (local libraries, podcast app, iTunes U app, music, etc.)
• HBO Go
• Showtime Anytime
• Plex
• YouTube (with a solid interface)
• Watch ESPN

No single device currently does all of these things. Hopefully Apple brings in those missing features soon.

Its not the device I am concerned about, I simply do not want to have to buy cable/satellite just to watch what I want. I want to buy HBO or individual shows and only that.

 

[MrMichaelJames]

Biggest apple tv problem

Is that it's too connected to itunes. I don't want to import everything I have into itunes. I don't have an extra mac sitting around to be an itunes server. Sounds like amazon will let you side load apps. Apple will NEVER let you do that. Believe me, i have macbooks, ipads, iphones, but I probably will never have an apple tv.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Airplay has the EXACT SAME quality as if you watched it directly from the Apple TV. That's because with Airplay, the content isn't actually streamed from your iPhone. The iPhone just tells the Apple TV where to get the content from the router. Most apps have Airplay built in.

I know - this is what I've referred to as "native playback" in my original post too. And my numerous in-depth articles on AirPlay streaming / native playback.

Airplay mirroring on the other hand is different because it is a stream from the iPhone so it depends on the quality of your wireless network. I rarely use mirroring though because most video apps support native Airplay.

Third-party app support is highly dependent on
1, the video being played back (is it natively playable) and
2, whether the player has hardware-accelerated playback at all.

Bullet 1 means popular but non-natively-playable containers like MKV won't be played back natively, only via direct drawing (or, even worse, mirroring), which means highly inferior image quality. The only player with proper MKV AirPlay support is Infuse, of which I've also published tons of info here at MR.

Bullet 2 means even if you play back natively playable formats, software-only players like VLC won't be able to pass their local address to the ATV, which means the latter won't be able to play them back in native (the superior) mode.

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Is that it's too connected to itunes. I don't want to import everything I have into itunes. I don't have an extra mac sitting around to be an itunes server. Sounds like amazon will let you side load apps. Apple will NEVER let you do that. Believe me, i have macbooks, ipads, iphones, but I probably will never have an apple tv.

Actually, you can use UPnP sources with ATV with even an iOS mediator (proxy), which means you don't need to have / run iTunes at all locally (and, for that matter, not even a desktop computer / notebook. Even a lowly iPod touch will do). I've published tons of stuff here at MR on this too; see for example https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1503351/

 

[whooleytoo]

This was a GREAT post, and matches my position exactly. Many of us feel that the unyielding zeal of the fan base can contribute to complacency from the company. If more was demanded, more would be given.

As a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, it used to annoy me that they'd get good fan support and ticket sales even though ownership wasn't putting out a good product. Then a new GM got in there and actually started drafting the best available players and attracting decent free agents. End result was a playoff team that followed 20 years of losing seasons. Complacency was the problem, not small market city excuses.

To keep the baseball analogy going, Apple is starting to feel like the Yankees if they decided to ease off and just ride the brand with "good enough" seasons without the "must win the World Series" fire that George Steinbrenner had.

Many of the cynics here really like our Apple products, but we want Apple to know when they are falling short so they will do better. ATV should have been better before now. iPhone should have offered a 4.7" alternative before now. Mac Mini should be THE killer desktop computer for the average consumer by now. Opportunities lost...

Very much agree. While it's great for Apple to have a staunchly loyal customer base, it also engenders complacency. Which arguably is bad for the company. IMO, those who buy Apple products but complain are actually doing the company a service, they're always giving Apple "first option" on any new purchase but their criticism helps push the company on.

On a slight tangent, it's also why I think IP law is overly strong, as overly-broad patent / trademark law can stifle competition and foster complacency.

 

[GIZBUG]

Looks like I can't stream my MKV's from my NAS to this device over my network. PASS.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Looks like I can't stream my MKV's from my NAS to this device over my network. PASS.

Can you do that with an TV (not jailbroken)? No. So "pass" too?

Or do we compare the stock Fire vs. a jailbroken TV so that we can rationalize rejecting Fire but propping up TV? (as if Fire won't either add such a feature soon (again, it comes with an app store) or we make a big assumption that a jailbroken Fire is unlikely).

Of course, the real issue is not simply "did they technically include the features people wished for", but rather do those features really deliver the content and functionality that is required to satisfy the customer. For example, what is the Fire TV doing in regards to Android games that's different from the failing Ouya set top?

It's able to play games, written by third party developer right out of the gate. That's something TV should have had for years now but still doesn't have it. I appreciate the poke at Fire projecting the negatives of some other set-tops misgivings into it, but at least Fire CAN play games. TV is very much closed along the same lines. One might spin that as "TV can't deliver a bad Ouya set-top gaming experience since Apple doesn't allow it the openness to play iOS games"

What I think I see in Fire is much of the functional benefits people like about TV plus SDK, third party apps, games, game controller and Siri-like voice controls. It's also much "thinner" but I rarely see that as some huge benefit- especially for a generally non-mobile device like this. Of course, it's locked out of iTunes DRM so it's a harder way to go for those otherwise happy or locked into the iTunes walled garden. But, at least it's there. To me it looks like it has a bunch of things TV should have had about 2-4 years ago… if Apple had just gone after the "hobby" like they've gone after iterations of iPhones & iPads.

I know "we" have self-programmed ourselves to see anything not branded Apple and find 1,000 flaws with it (whether they are actually there or not, we'll just imply or spin those flaws if necessary). But I bet if these exact features were announced as TV 4 new features, this whole thread would be packed with gushing praise. And if the TV 4 box was exactly the same shape & size of this one, the bulk of "us" would be gushing the greatness of "thin" as just one part of "I'm already in line" and "shut up and take my money", etc.

 

[samcraig]

For example, what is the Fire TV doing in regards to Android games that's different from the failing Ouya set top?

Are you going to compare OUYA to Amazon when it comes to marketing and customer base?

Most people I know have NO idea the OUYA exists. Amazon - I'd have a hard time finding someone who didn't know what Amazon was.

Amazon has the ecosystem and the leverage that Ouya simply doesn't have. That's not a judgement as to how good or bad the device is.

 

[GIZBUG]

Can you do that with an TV (not jailbroken)? No. So "pass" too?

Or do we compare the stock Fire vs. a jailbroken TV so that we can rationalize rejecting Fire but propping up TV? (as if Fire won't either add such a feature soon (again, it comes with an app store) or we making a big assumption that a jailbroken Fire is unlikely).

Can't do it with Apple TV either. Guess I continue to ride it out with Boxee Box (running XBMC)

 

[krravi]

Apple is definitely just kicking back seeing their competitors release all these products, while I'm sure the competitors are just as scared for when Apple announces a keynote event and readys to impress everyone.

This Fire TV from Amazon can essentially be a software update from Apple.

Theres a reason why Apple has remained quiet in recent times concerning this space...

It's because they're preparing to strike.

Can't wait for the new Apple TV.

Strike it while the iron is hot.

 

[truettray]

I'm interested in this thing, especially if we'll see games being developed for it. I'll give it a shot if that's the case. My Apple TV rarely gets used anymore. There's simply nothing special about it.

Unless you replaced it with something with more features, I don't get why people say things like this. It hasn't lost any functionality since you first bought it... if there is simply nothing special about it, then why purchase in the first place?

 

[krravi]

Amazon beat everyone to the punch by having the most content!

Apple TV is a hobby, and to still keep saying that isn't helping.

 

[TPadden]

bird in the hand vs. two in the bush....
So what do "we" do?.......

I ordered Fire TV ...... yesterday !

 

[neuropsychguy]

I can't tell if you guys are joking but Apple wasn't the first in any of those categories.

The parent was being sarcastic.

 

[dusty64]

Yeah, Amazon totally made a whole product, built an appstore, made partnerships with many game and app developers, and a whooooole demonstration of a product that cannot work and was totally ripped off, based on a rumor of what could be.


Really, people sometimes. I suppose the joke is on everybody who made app and games for it without even looking at the device to see it was a joke!

I was there, you weren't.

 

[fpnc]

At least the Apple TV has 480p support, which (apparently) the Fire does not. Not an issue for most, but I'm still using my 53" Sony rear-projection TV and it only supports 480p and 1080i.

Frankly, I still think my Sony looks pretty good and I can still enjoy old-school 4:3 at full screen or switch to 16:9 when watching 1080i or Blu-Ray.

I sure hope Apple doesn't drop 480p in the next release, but I'm suspecting that they will and that will be the end for us earlier adapters (early for both HDTV and the Apple TV).

 

[OneMike]

Looks pretty cool, but I'm more interested in streaming my own content so I'll be sticking with my kdlinks. PS4 for Netflix and Amazon.

 

[dusty64]

Love the glossy sides and matte top. Amazon must have some really inspired and original designers on staff.

It also has sharp edges which was complained about internally and never changed.

 

[sirozha]

crap... I'm too deeply integrated into Apple's ecosystem, I can't just buy Fire TV out of the blue.......

You got me there, Apple.... you got me...
I'm waiting for your Apple TV update.

Love,
iSheep

This site is for iSheep. Why are you here AndroidSheep?

 

[samcraig]

It also has sharp edges which was complained about internally and never changed.

Because it's going to be handled how much?

 

[TPadden]

.... I'm still using my 53" Sony rear-projection TV and it only supports 480p and 1080i.

.....and that will be the end for us earlier adapters (early for both HDTV and the Apple TV).

Something really made me laugh about an "early adapter" complaining about lack of support for a rear-projection TV !