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American Idol 09

leekohler said:
Like I said before- the message here is "don't do anything outside the norm". It was all a factor.
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I can agree with some of that. I have never kept up with Idol - it just happens to be watched in my home so I hear some of it. If you look at the last three though, the guy who won and the guy who got voted off last week (I don't even know names) probably had the same audience - so that played a factor too. A three-way race where 2/3 have probably the same basic audience makes it difficult for the left-over person to overcome the numbers.

I can see more people voting multiple times for the guy who won though over Adam. From the beginning Adam was just a better entertainer and singer than anyone on the show but probably not prone to illicit hundreds or thousands of votes from the same person.

As far as Adam's orientation, that unfortunately played some role. However the American public is often dichotomous when it comes to entertainment. In the arts there are many high-profile gay artists that are wildly successful. Many were/are successful specifically because of their ambiguity. You could also look at someone like Madonna who mixed religious symbols with a very worldly and selfish message in probably the most profane ways possible (coming from a Christian perspective) and was still extremely successful.

Popular culture is filled with contradictions. The popular music industry is an area where talent is just a part of the equation. Look at who wins the Grammy's and tell me if those are always the most talented people in the industry.

Having said all that, I would probably buy Adam's album over anyone else in idol history. And I'm a social conservative, straight male who grew up and lives in the US mid-west
 
Tilpots said:
Please don't be a sore loser.



If that's the message, how did he make it to the end? Kris won because Gokey's fans voted for him. Plain and simple. Don't make this into an issue that it's not.
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That's part of it too. Don't pretend that what we're saying isn't part of it either. Of course it is. And I'm not being a sore loser- I like them both. But Adam is clearly more talented and extraordinary.

jaw04005 said:
Alright the studio version of "No Boundaries" is a lot better. However, I still don't think it's a good first single.

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=317299783&id=317366148&s=143441
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We really need to give Kara some grief over that. :)

saxman said:
I can agree with some of that. I have never kept up with Idol - it just happens to be watched in my home so I hear some of it. If you look at the last three though, the guy who won and the guy who got voted off last week (I don't even know names) probably had the same audience - so that played a factor too. A three-way race where 2/3 have probably the same basic audience makes it difficult for the left-over person to overcome the numbers.

I can see more people voting multiple times for the guy who won though over Adam. From the beginning Adam was just a better entertainer and singer than anyone on the show but probably not prone to illicit hundreds or thousands of votes from the same person.

As far as Adam's orientation, that unfortunately played some role. However the American public is often dichotomous when it comes to entertainment. In the arts there are many high-profile gay artists that are wildly successful. Many were/are successful specifically because of their ambiguity. You could also look at someone like Madonna who mixed religious symbols with a very worldly and selfish message in probably the most profane ways possible (coming from a Christian perspective) and was still extremely successful.

Popular culture is filled with contradictions. The popular music industry is an area where talent is just a part of the equation. Look at who wins the Grammy's and tell me if those are always the most talented people in the industry.

Having said all that, I would probably buy Adam's album over anyone else in idol history. And I'm a social conservative, straight male who grew up and lives in the US mid-west
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That's good to hear. I'll pick it up too. If Kris doesn't end up sounding like Jason Mraz (dear god please no), I'll probably grab his too.
 
Tilpots said:
Please don't be a sore loser.



If that's the message, how did he make it to the end? Kris won because Gokey's fans voted for him. Plain and simple. Don't make this into an issue that it's not.
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I have to respectfully disagree. I'm straight, married with 2 kids and I believe Adam did lose b/c of his sexual orientation - hands down.

Yes, Danny's fans obviously voted for Kris, but they're both from strong church backgrounds which I would believe obviously means most of their fans are church goers and it's doubtful they would vote for Adam based on that fact alone.

Now was Adam's sexuality an openly discussed topic amongst voters? Who knows - I know it was discussed on the net so any fan wanting to know more easily found out. Plus, I'm sure there were enough uptight voters turned off by Adam's eyeliner and fingernail polish.

I don't think Leekohler is making this into an issue it's not b/c it is an issue imho. Is it the end of the world? No, but it's shameful.

That said, I think Adam will succeed regardless of losing AI. I think both guys will.

Cheerios,
Keebler
 
I haven't been following Idol much (I watch the tryouts mostly then quit) but I listened to some of last nights show on Youtube. It was only audio but I preferred Kris' voice more than Adams. Any suggested clips to watch to sway me towards Adam? I'm just curious. I know sometimes they get songs that just aren't meant for them.

Although without video (there was just pics, not movement) sometimes stage performance can factor in too I guess.
 
leekohler said:
Don't pretend that what we're saying isn't part of it either. Of course it is. And I'm not being a sore loser- I like them both. But Adam is clearly more talented and extraordinary.
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It's a popularity contest, and not necessarily a talent competition. That's what happens when you put the decision to voters.

Would you say that Adam only made it to the finals because of the gay vote? Probably not. I don't think this is the case, because I believe Adam may have been the most talented overall, but I don't think we can say he lost because of his sexual orientation. I think Kris' appeal was broader, and that's why he won.

Keebler said:
I have to respectfully disagree. I'm straight, married with 2 kids and I believe Adam did lose b/c of his sexual orientation - hands down.

Yes, Danny's fans obviously voted for Kris, but they're both from strong church backgrounds which I would believe obviously means most of their fans are church goers and it's doubtful they would vote for Adam based on that fact alone.

Now was Adam's sexuality an openly discussed topic amongst voters? Who knows - I know it was discussed on the net so any fan wanting to know more easily found out. Plus, I'm sure there were enough uptight voters turned off by Adam's eyeliner and fingernail polish.

I don't think Leekohler is making this into an issue it's not b/c it is an issue imho. Is it the end of the world? No, but it's shameful.

That said, I think Adam will succeed regardless of losing AI. I think both guys will.

Cheerios,
Keebler
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I agree that both guys will succeed, but again I disagree that sexuality played a role in the vote. Ruben and Fantasia won and they were both black going up against white competitors in the finale. Both won American Idol, with a white majority of viewers (don't have facts to back this up, but I do assume it's the case). I think this proves that bias is not generally the reason people vote for Idol contestants.

Gokey and Kris' fans actually liked the styles of their singing more than they liked Adam's style. I believe after Gokey's exit, those fans went to their next favorite singer, which was Kris. That's it. No conspiracy, no Howard Sternish "Sanjay plot", no bigotry.

Kris sound appealed to more people than Adam's sound.
 
I haven't watched the show much all season. I watched the finally and looks aside, I think Kris has a better pure voice.
 
Personally I can't stand Adam's voice (most of the time) when he tones it down it's not terrible, but he always sounds like he's screeching and whining. The yelling in the middle and end of almost every performance got old fast. And as far as album's go... I don't see how anyone could listen to him scream like that for an entire album. Don't get me wrong, he has a good voice when he's not being over theatrical in his performances, but I think he's 20 years too late. I agree that he could/would-have made a great lead singer for bands like Queen, but not in todays culture. There aren't many (if any) bands like that coming into mainstream that people actual like. Sure there are still some older ones hanging out from years ago, but music changes and I don't think what Adam is trying to do will translate well with today's music and culture.

That being said Kris Allen kind of fits the mold of today's soft rockers and will probably release a record similar to David Cook's and honestly I think it will do better than Adam's album in the long run, just because it appeals to a broader audience. So while Adam may have a "bigger" voice and better stage presence, Kris has a more likable voice and style that fits better with the way music has gone lately.

So while Adam took more risks throughout the season, not all of them paid off (Johnny Cash) which left him high one week and way at the bottom the next, where as Kris just kinda sat back and played it safe week after week which is apparently what America likes...
 
MacNut said:
I would like to see the raw numbers to see how close it was.
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I agree. Interesting isn't it that usually the Idol producers like to talk about how close the competition was--winner/loser separated by only a million votes for example. Perhaps Adam lost by a large margin and they didn't wish to publish this? Either way, both will have an interesting future and success from all of this I hope.
 
leekohler said:
My roommate and I were both kind of pissed. I thought that for the first time, maybe America could move past this stuff. I was proven wrong once again.
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It's hard to say for sure if his sexuality was the reason he lost, but both my mom and I thought the same thing when Kris won--that Kris got the conservative vote.
 
LOL the gays are pissed that Adam didn't win.

Here's what one gay guy said on Twitter: "Kris only won cuz america hates gay ppl. >:["

:rolleyes:
 
No offense to anyone but it sounds like a lot of sour grapes that the person they wanted too win didn't so they are making excuses why. Just let it go, he lost. I don't think it is a huge conspiracy.
 
TwinCities Dan said:
I was hoping we would get more info on this today. Why would they release the 38 mil from Arkansas without additional stats? :confused:
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Idol producers told Access Hollywood's Billy Bush that it was a landslide, it wasn't even close. It was on this afternoon.

I doubt they want to publicize that Adam's votes weren't competitive. That's just rubbing salt in a wound.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/kris-allen-talks-idol-win-im-just-a-regular-guy_article_18295

Watch the interview on the right. Their article is kind of slanted with choice quotes.

By the way, AT&T has retracted the 38 million number from Arkansas and instead released this statement today:

"We can't confirm how many votes were cast in Arkansas, and we can't comment on the number of votes for any contestant."
 
jaw04005 said:
Idol producers told Access Hollywood's Billy Bush that it was a landslide, it wasn't even close. It was on this afternoon.

I doubt they want to publicize that Adam's votes weren't competitive. That's just rubbing salt in a wound.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/kris-allen-talks-idol-win-im-just-a-regular-guy_article_18295

Watch the interview on the right. Their article is kind of slanted with choice quotes.

By the way, AT&T has retracted the 38 million number from Arkansas and instead released this statement today:

"We can't confirm how many votes were cast in Arkansas, and we can't comment on the number of votes for any contestant."
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That's kind of what I figured, interesting about AT&T. ;)
 
People, if this was a political matter of the Christian right, which is a large number who watch FOX, voting out gay contestants, Clay or Adam would have never even made it into the top 12 in any season.

AI is a popularity contest first, singing contest second. In a rare occasion, talent wins in the year Taylor Hicks won over pop Idol looking Kat McPhee. Adam got far because he's good, same with Kris. Both have great futures and will make more money than anybody on this forum. :)

If you think the pop media/tv watching public is so anti-gay, then ask Ellen.
 
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