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An honest assessment of the lags and stutters in the Retina Macbook Pro

Under 1920x1200, as I have read, the nVidia 630 actually renders at 3840x2400, and then scales down to 1920x1200. I would suspect the best performance from your card would be had at "Best for Retina" which does not require the card to do double-work.
 
mzjin said:
Ugh. This is just false.

I have a Retina Macbook Pro and have used others in stores, and browser performance, in ANY website, is not "smooth as silk". It's about 30 FPS off from "smooth as silk".

This is under ANY resolution, and gets WORSE when resolution increases.

----------



I consider the browser performance issue to be a non-issue. It is annoying and laggy for sure, but it doesn't really impede in the way of getting things done.

I treat my $2K Macbook Pro Retina as a 15" Macbook Air that can play games, decode and run things like a Macbook Air can't hope to do. And the screen of course, it worth 5x crappy Macbook Air screens.
Click to expand...

To me it was very smooth under best for retina and equal to my 2011 MBA for scrolling so would hardly qualify my statement as false.
 
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. LAG IS CPU NOT GPU.

Its been widely reported as software and CPU limited.

Better software that uses the GPU instead of the CPU will fix it.
 
Reading this thread on Safari on 1920x1200 and it has a slight lag, which gives me a headache after about 30 minutes of browsing. Switching it back to Best for Retina obviously fixes the problem but I like the amount of screen real estate 1920x1200 gives me. Hope they address this problem.
 
ZipZap said:
Death grip was a MAJOR issue one that forced Apple to give away cases to make their phones work properly.

How could you conclude otherwise ?

----------



HuH?

So, you accepted the loss of signal from holding the phone and rejected rMBP because of slight lag that mostly occurs when using scaled video modes?

You can put a case on the phone....solved.
Run at retina resolutions until Apple further addresses the issue.....solved
Click to expand...

Death grip was as much a PR problem as anything else. I rarely if ever saw an issue in normal use. Using the rMBP for the first time, before I even knew of this issue, the first thing I noticed was how the interface felt slightly choppy - most prominently when browsing. I was ready to buy, so I checked out as many machines as I could in 2 different Apple stores. All the same.

I've never used a previous gen MBP that had lag issues consistently across several different units, so I think it's fair to say this is not a floor model issue only.

My solution? I won't buy an rMBP until Apple fixes the problem. I've dealt with rev1 problems too many times with Apple to go through it again and hope ML definitively resolves this. If ML doesn't fix it, I'll wait til the hardware matures. If you don't notice or care about perceived lag, then great - buy it/keep it. It's not the end of the world and the computer is otherwise very nice.
 
Last edited:
I'm lost!

I seriously have a problem.

1. I ordered the rMBP right after it was announced, because I waited years for an all new design. (coming from a non-unibody MBP early 2008)

2. I'm working on my Master-Thesis in architecture right now. I've got 2 months left and really depend on a competitive Laptop.

3. My MBP (early 2008) did not turn on anymore just last week. Logic board is defect.

4. OK. No problem, because tomorrow the new rMBP arrives and I got to use the white MacBook of my girlfriend the past week. Already enough time wasted on getting out the hard drive and installing all those heavy applications.

5. Not even knowing about the UI-lag issue, I noticed the sluggish behavior from the first touch of the trackpad on a rMBP in store. I instantly knew that this is NOT NORMAL, that this can NOT BE A FAULT FROM THIS PARTICULAR MACHINE and that this performance would NOT PLEASE ME, IN FACT WOULD SERIOUSLY SLOW DOWN MY WORKFLOW IN EVERYDAY USE!!!!!

6. I've been reading every single post in this forum about the lags in the UI and scrolling and was really relieved, when I heard of ML will fix all the UI performance problems. I really was looking forward to this amazing machine again.

7. But with time, posts were getting more pessimistic. The Anantech review talked about, the hardware is not ready for this high resolution. And people were complaining about even under ML not everything would run as nice and smooth as on the older generation MacBook Pro. One member said, even Photoshop CS6 would not run fluid on the rMBP (rearranging layers) and I really depend on a fast working Photoshop!

8. I really don't know what to do now. I can not test the rMBP under ML. ML will come out in a month from now. I can not test ML on rMBP in the first 2 weeks and possibly send it back.

9. I can not return the rMBP and buy either a MBP (2012) or a MBA (2012), because first, they would again take 2 weeks to get to me (ordered over Mac at Campus = great discount) and second, the MBP would sure please me for the work I have to do but would not please me as THE NEW TOY at all, and the MBA would be THE NEW TOY but I'm afraid it might not handle all the stuff I need to work with (CAD-drawings, large Photoshop files with over 1 GB per file, Cinema 4D renderings).

10. I hardly have time to busy myself with reading and reading and posting and posting in this forum.

11. I do not want to waste any more time to think about weather or not the lag problem will be gone or "enough" gone with ML.

12. I dont have time to run tests with some ML DeveloperPreview, never done it.

13. I just need a working Laptop and I do not want to buy something that expensive if it would not work. Remember I come from a MBP early 2008 and waited really long for an all new design MBP and saved money for it.

14. I just do not know what to do any more...... :(
 
So tomorrow your rMBP arrives? Tomorrow, run the patches, test it and then figure out what you want to do.

1) Buy used MBP somewhere and wait a year or 2 for rMBP
2) Buy new MBP and be happy to have a nice working machine
3) Keep the rMBP

If you read the posts at all, you'll see that the lag is pretty minimal and only occurs in some specific instances.
 
leenak said:
If you read the posts at all, you'll see that the lag is pretty minimal and only occurs in some specific instances.
Click to expand...

If I watch the videos of ML, the lag looks pretty minimal, if it's not gone. If I try one in store myself (do not know what patches, but I think those updates wont do that much until ML), I go crazy on how bad the rMBP performs!
 
seaw said:
14. I just do not know what to do any more...... :(
Click to expand...

If I were you I would torrent the ML DP4 tonight and install that tomorrow when the rMBP arrives (it really doesn't take that long, like an hour of your time). Run that until you decide to either return the machine or until the full ML is released, and then just upgrade to full release.

I'm not advocating piracy for anyone or in general. I could easily download ML DP4 and haven't done so. I only recommend this given your very peculiar circumstances. I think the little time to install ML DP4 is worth the effort in your case since there are campus savings to take into consideration.
 
seaw said:
If I watch the videos of ML, the lag looks pretty minimal, if it's not gone. If I try one in store myself (do not know what patches, but I think those updates wont do that much until ML), I go crazy on how bad the rMBP performs!
Click to expand...

Then return it. I don't have ML, any lag I have is barely noticeable.
 
seaw said:
I seriously have a problem.

1. I ordered the rMBP right after it was announced, because I waited years for an all new design. (coming from a non-unibody MBP early 2008)

2. I'm working on my Master-Thesis in architecture right now. I've got 2 months left and really depend on a competitive Laptop.

3. My MBP (early 2008) did not turn on anymore just last week. Logic board is defect.

4. OK. No problem, because tomorrow the new rMBP arrives and I got to use the white MacBook of my girlfriend the past week. Already enough time wasted on getting out the hard drive and installing all those heavy applications.

5. Not even knowing about the UI-lag issue, I noticed the sluggish behavior from the first touch of the trackpad on a rMBP in store. I instantly knew that this is NOT NORMAL, that this can NOT BE A FAULT FROM THIS PARTICULAR MACHINE and that this performance would NOT PLEASE ME, IN FACT WOULD SERIOUSLY SLOW DOWN MY WORKFLOW IN EVERYDAY USE!!!!!

6. I've been reading every single post in this forum about the lags in the UI and scrolling and was really relieved, when I heard of ML will fix all the UI performance problems. I really was looking forward to this amazing machine again.

7. But with time, posts were getting more pessimistic. The Anantech review talked about, the hardware is not ready for this high resolution. And people were complaining about even under ML not everything would run as nice and smooth as on the older generation MacBook Pro. One member said, even Photoshop CS6 would not run fluid on the rMBP (rearranging layers) and I really depend on a fast working Photoshop!

8. I really don't know what to do now. I can not test the rMBP under ML. ML will come out in a month from now. I can not test ML on rMBP in the first 2 weeks and possibly send it back.

9. I can not return the rMBP and buy either a MBP (2012) or a MBA (2012), because first, they would again take 2 weeks to get to me (ordered over Mac at Campus = great discount) and second, the MBP would sure please me for the work I have to do but would not please me as THE NEW TOY at all, and the MBA would be THE NEW TOY but I'm afraid it might not handle all the stuff I need to work with (CAD-drawings, large Photoshop files with over 1 GB per file, Cinema 4D renderings).

10. I hardly have time to busy myself with reading and reading and posting and posting in this forum.

11. I do not want to waste any more time to think about weather or not the lag problem will be gone or "enough" gone with ML.

12. I dont have time to run tests with some ML DeveloperPreview, never done it.

13. I just need a working Laptop and I do not want to buy something that expensive if it would not work. Remember I come from a MBP early 2008 and waited really long for an all new design MBP and saved money for it.

14. I just do not know what to do any more...... :(
Click to expand...

that describes me to a tee. I ended up having to cancel my order after using an updated one in store. It seriously gave me a headache. The employees did not seem to notice it much, but to my eyes it was very very choppy, and it seriously made me feel sick after spending about 10 minutes with it. When Mlion is on them i will go back and see if it makes a difference, but until then i cannot deal with it.
 
leenak said:
Then return it. I don't have ML, any lag I have is barely noticeable.
Click to expand...

I always wonder if it's just many different personal perceptions that lead to such dramatic different symptoms of the UI-lagging, what would be more than OK.
Or are there real experiences of very different amount of UI-sluggishness from different units?
 
seaw said:
I always wonder if it's just many different personal perceptions that lead to such dramatic different symptoms of the UI-lagging, what would be more than OK.
Or are there real experiences of very different amount of UI-sluggishness from different units?
Click to expand...

i have noticed it on all of the ones i have used. Some people just may have more sensitive eyes than others.
 
One more thing...

Why isn't Apple saying anything about this issue? Something like: "we are aware of... It's because... we will fix it"

Bad sign?
 
i used one in the apple store and didnt notice anything. I had no desire for a laptop and it almost made me change my mind.
 
mattopotamus said:
i have noticed it on all of the ones i have used. Some people just may have more sensitive eyes than others.
Click to expand...

But this is nothing about really hard looking or concentrate to recognize... For me it seems so bad, that I can not control scrolling with trackpad right. It was not only sluggish but also felt like the animation took almost 3 times as long.
 
seaw said:
One more thing...

Why isn't Apple saying anything about this issue? Something like: "we are aware of... It's because... we will fix it"

Bad sign?
Click to expand...

They never do, they stonewall and deny, it's their typical policy...
 
seaw said:
I mean with antenna gate and iPhone they admitted and also gave away free bumpers?!?!?
Click to expand...

the proverbial had hit the fan then it was all over the press, on youtube, in forums it was the last thing they could deny, but they've denied graphics problems in the past, screen tint issues, countless software bugs, thermal problems with rev. 1 air for example, hinge problems... you name it... it was a very apple like "admission" btw the iphone following the sequence: deny, call up press conference, deny again, despite denying the problem offer free bumpers, keep selling the phone without any modification, redesign antenna on the new model (the very same design but with a new antenna design)... god knows how they pulled it off, only apple can do that...and if you ask most apple fans right now (that is some of the more gung ho ones say the type that frequent apple insider and only speak to each other) they 'll deny there ever was a problem again on apple's behalf. Anyway, I digressed and this isn't doing the thread any good. :cool:
 
I don't deny that it could be perception but there is a known UI performance patch that was released a couple days after the Retinas went on sale. I wouldn't totally dismiss that the store systems don't have the patch applied.

I've found the system very responsive and like I've said before, I've had to go searching for the lag and found it only on very close examination. Same websites, different computer has same results though.
 
I have some scrolling slowdowns, but honestly I just hope with ML/other updates they make 1920x1200 (and every other resolution) perform even better. It's just a software thing. Retina is still a brand new thing on computers, and there's no going back.
 
seaw said:
I seriously have a problem.

1. I ordered the rMBP right after it was announced, because I waited years for an all new design. (coming from a non-unibody MBP early 2008)

2. I'm working on my Master-Thesis in architecture right now. I've got 2 months left and really depend on a competitive Laptop.

3. My MBP (early 2008) did not turn on anymore just last week. Logic board is defect.

4. OK. No problem, because tomorrow the new rMBP arrives and I got to use the white MacBook of my girlfriend the past week. Already enough time wasted on getting out the hard drive and installing all those heavy applications.

5. Not even knowing about the UI-lag issue, I noticed the sluggish behavior from the first touch of the trackpad on a rMBP in store. I instantly knew that this is NOT NORMAL, that this can NOT BE A FAULT FROM THIS PARTICULAR MACHINE and that this performance would NOT PLEASE ME, IN FACT WOULD SERIOUSLY SLOW DOWN MY WORKFLOW IN EVERYDAY USE!!!!!

6. I've been reading every single post in this forum about the lags in the UI and scrolling and was really relieved, when I heard of ML will fix all the UI performance problems. I really was looking forward to this amazing machine again.

7. But with time, posts were getting more pessimistic. The Anantech review talked about, the hardware is not ready for this high resolution. And people were complaining about even under ML not everything would run as nice and smooth as on the older generation MacBook Pro. One member said, even Photoshop CS6 would not run fluid on the rMBP (rearranging layers) and I really depend on a fast working Photoshop!

8. I really don't know what to do now. I can not test the rMBP under ML. ML will come out in a month from now. I can not test ML on rMBP in the first 2 weeks and possibly send it back.

9. I can not return the rMBP and buy either a MBP (2012) or a MBA (2012), because first, they would again take 2 weeks to get to me (ordered over Mac at Campus = great discount) and second, the MBP would sure please me for the work I have to do but would not please me as THE NEW TOY at all, and the MBA would be THE NEW TOY but I'm afraid it might not handle all the stuff I need to work with (CAD-drawings, large Photoshop files with over 1 GB per file, Cinema 4D renderings).

10. I hardly have time to busy myself with reading and reading and posting and posting in this forum.

11. I do not want to waste any more time to think about weather or not the lag problem will be gone or "enough" gone with ML.

12. I dont have time to run tests with some ML DeveloperPreview, never done it.

13. I just need a working Laptop and I do not want to buy something that expensive if it would not work. Remember I come from a MBP early 2008 and waited really long for an all new design MBP and saved money for it.

14. I just do not know what to do any more...... :(
Click to expand...

The lag is the least of your worries. You realize there's not going to be a retina optimized version of autocad within the next two months right? Let alone photoshop or cinema 4d.
 
Any new fps benchmarks for this issue?

Seems some people are working themselves into a panic over iirc is 5-10fps less than cMBP on some sites on some resolutions on some versions of safari or lion. Amazing.
 
Also read this on another thread.

I'm glad to report though that during such times of 'lag' CPU and GPU usage remains very low so I don't really think it's hardware, just that the drivers or OSX hasn't been optimised for it just yet.

I have done extensive testing and can agree on this one. It is by no means limited by hardware, but something at the core of OS X. It does really bug me, but I will not be returning the PC because at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Things to note:

Forcing intel or nvidia graphics makes no difference. CPU is not being saturated.
Mountain Lion does *not* fix this issue in applications but safari. Safari 6 included with ML seems to (as far as I can tell, based on the way pages are rendered in comparison to Safari 5) do bitmap caching on text and page content wherever possible, as well as utilise threaded rendering more than previous versions. Due to this, most websites run at a smooth 60fps on ML, with some exceptions where fixed divs or large scrollable sub-areas are present (like facebook) in a similar fashion to how you would see them perform on iOS devices.
General desktop performance is slightly better in ML, especially switching desktops or just dragging windows around.
Raw draw performance is not an issue on Lion or ML; blitting full-screen 1920x1200x2 @60fps is silky smooth.
The performance hit is worse depending on the amount of text that is drawn to the screen (at least this is the largest factor). Therefore, applications that display large text bodies – text editors; rss readers etc. – show issues the most. Larger font sizes also seem to contribute. Reeder (the new retina supporting release) is a choppy 20-25fps, for example.
Changing text anti-aliasing modes makes no difference (sub-pixel hinting off / different "weights" of sub-pixel).
The issue is one that will likely be fixed at Apple's end, should enough noise be made. This may be as simple as fixing a blocking issue somewhere in their OS/UI stack, or offset by providing baked-in bitmap caching support for common text-centric UI elements so developers do not need to do this on their own (providing performance boosts as seen in Safari 6).

For what it's worth, I did most of my testing using the 1920x1200 scale mode. I did re-test at "Retina" scale where comparing Lion to ML especially, and found that this made little difference. I was mostly using smaller windows for tests that would fit on the retina and scaled mode without resizing the actual window content, meaning the only variable would be the OS double-sampling and scaling overheads (which seem to be very minimal).

Note that I also tried with a 27" cinema display connected and this did not impact performance at all.

I have to say overall that I am very happy with the system and while after initially testing in the apple store (before my order shipped) was considering cancelling, once you go retina you can't go back. The lag will be improved over time – whether it is Apple or devs of our core apps that fix it. Having Safari fixed does help a lot, too, so at least wait around for the ML release before making any rash decisions.

at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Or run anon-retina resoloution using SwitchResX
 
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