Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

An honest assessment of the lags and stutters in the Retina Macbook Pro

J.L.Photography said:
No issues with my 2.3/16/256.

No lag, zippy computing, great machine.

O ya, and one of the most vibrant screens I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

Good to hear some positive feedback too J.L. :) May I ask what your last mac was, just to get a measure to what you are comparing it against?
 
prfrma said:
Also read this on another thread.

I'm glad to report though that during such times of 'lag' CPU and GPU usage remains very low so I don't really think it's hardware, just that the drivers or OSX hasn't been optimised for it just yet.

I have done extensive testing and can agree on this one. It is by no means limited by hardware, but something at the core of OS X. It does really bug me, but I will not be returning the PC because at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Things to note:

Forcing intel or nvidia graphics makes no difference. CPU is not being saturated.
Mountain Lion does *not* fix this issue in applications but safari. Safari 6 included with ML seems to (as far as I can tell, based on the way pages are rendered in comparison to Safari 5) do bitmap caching on text and page content wherever possible, as well as utilise threaded rendering more than previous versions. Due to this, most websites run at a smooth 60fps on ML, with some exceptions where fixed divs or large scrollable sub-areas are present (like facebook) in a similar fashion to how you would see them perform on iOS devices.
General desktop performance is slightly better in ML, especially switching desktops or just dragging windows around.
Raw draw performance is not an issue on Lion or ML; blitting full-screen 1920x1200x2 @60fps is silky smooth.
The performance hit is worse depending on the amount of text that is drawn to the screen (at least this is the largest factor). Therefore, applications that display large text bodies – text editors; rss readers etc. – show issues the most. Larger font sizes also seem to contribute. Reeder (the new retina supporting release) is a choppy 20-25fps, for example.
Changing text anti-aliasing modes makes no difference (sub-pixel hinting off / different "weights" of sub-pixel).
The issue is one that will likely be fixed at Apple's end, should enough noise be made. This may be as simple as fixing a blocking issue somewhere in their OS/UI stack, or offset by providing baked-in bitmap caching support for common text-centric UI elements so developers do not need to do this on their own (providing performance boosts as seen in Safari 6).

For what it's worth, I did most of my testing using the 1920x1200 scale mode. I did re-test at "Retina" scale where comparing Lion to ML especially, and found that this made little difference. I was mostly using smaller windows for tests that would fit on the retina and scaled mode without resizing the actual window content, meaning the only variable would be the OS double-sampling and scaling overheads (which seem to be very minimal).

Note that I also tried with a 27" cinema display connected and this did not impact performance at all.

I have to say overall that I am very happy with the system and while after initially testing in the apple store (before my order shipped) was considering cancelling, once you go retina you can't go back. The lag will be improved over time – whether it is Apple or devs of our core apps that fix it. Having Safari fixed does help a lot, too, so at least wait around for the ML release before making any rash decisions.

at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Or run anon-retina resoloution using SwitchResX
Click to expand...

Mostly this.

Thank you for a rational post, now let's see the lynch mob lynch you.

Everything you've said is pretty much bang on. I perceive my performance to be slightly worse than you do, but the fact remains: there are performance issues. I, however, I'm not too optimistic software upgrades will make much difference. They've been engineering this for quite some time I'm sure and QAing... this stuff isn't going to just change in a few weeks... especially since I'm using a near-retail version of ML.

Time will tell.
 
Yeah I have a Sony Vaio Core duo. I also have a Dell Core Duo for work. I tested the same websites that have stutter on my rMBP and they also experience the same stutter at the same locations.
 
Ok,

Overall in Best for Retina mode, you can notice there's much less lag.

On 1900x1200 it get's worse, but honestly using facebook on all modes is quite bad.

I love the machine anyway. :D
 
After owning the rMBP for 2 days now, the only lagging or shuttering that I experience is when I scroll in a window with a lot of graphics such as a mac app store window, or the homepage of Mac Rumors. However this is apparently going to be fixed or improved in Mountain Lion. An in depth review for the Retina talks about it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94OenZ71ADY&feature=player_embedded. I have run CoD 4 at full res with max performance and I'll only see a minor drop in performance. I am not trying to justify my purchase, if I was noticing lackluster performance I'd bring it right back to Apple! I haven't tried it out in Final Cut yet so I can't give my opinion on processor intensive apps yet.
 
I'm on Bootcamp Windows 7 and Firefox. Zero stutter issues. Oh, I am also stress testing my video card (testing max temp), which has had no noticeable performance loss while browsing.
 
minnus said:
I'm on Bootcamp Windows 7 and Firefox. Zero stutter issues. Oh, I am also stress testing my video card (testing max temp), which has had no noticeable performance loss while browsing.
Click to expand...

Um you realize you're basically not even using the retina display scaling in windows right?
 
leenak said:
Yeah I have a Sony Vaio Core duo. I also have a Dell Core Duo for work. I tested the same websites that have stutter on my rMBP and they also experience the same stutter at the same locations.
Click to expand...

Great, so the rMBP is as fast as a 5 year old laptop, impressive to say the least.:(
 
stevelam said:
The lag is the least of your worries. You realize there's not going to be a retina optimized version of autocad within the next two months right? Let alone photoshop or cinema 4d.
Click to expand...

I'm not even using autocad. Using archicad. I absolutely can live with blurry buttons and interface. I wonder though how the vector drawings will look like (the content in the window).
I always thought with photoshop, that it's only the buttons, because they don't come in high res. but also the content in the window, the actual psd, is pixelated. I didn't Expect that, because why can't a 8 MPixel image not make use of the full resolution, while the buttons are blurry?
Now I just wonder how this effect will deal with vector drawings before the app gets the retina update?!!?
 
Forget everything we read about lag. Can just someone please tell me that I will get an awesome machine and it will just run fine...:(
 
sireShonBohn said:
Great, so the rMBP is as fast as a 5 year old laptop, impressive to say the least.:(
Click to expand...
Calm down its simply the OS hasnt been updated when mountain lion comes out it should be fine. Seeing as it has tested 1680 by 1050 on diablo 3 to run over 80fps shows it is not the hardware.
 
prfrma said:
Also read this on another thread.

I'm glad to report though that during such times of 'lag' CPU and GPU usage remains very low so I don't really think it's hardware, just that the drivers or OSX hasn't been optimised for it just yet.

I have done extensive testing and can agree on this one. It is by no means limited by hardware, but something at the core of OS X. It does really bug me, but I will not be returning the PC because at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Things to note:

Forcing intel or nvidia graphics makes no difference. CPU is not being saturated.
Mountain Lion does *not* fix this issue in applications but safari. Safari 6 included with ML seems to (as far as I can tell, based on the way pages are rendered in comparison to Safari 5) do bitmap caching on text and page content wherever possible, as well as utilise threaded rendering more than previous versions. Due to this, most websites run at a smooth 60fps on ML, with some exceptions where fixed divs or large scrollable sub-areas are present (like facebook) in a similar fashion to how you would see them perform on iOS devices.
General desktop performance is slightly better in ML, especially switching desktops or just dragging windows around.
Raw draw performance is not an issue on Lion or ML; blitting full-screen 1920x1200x2 @60fps is silky smooth.
The performance hit is worse depending on the amount of text that is drawn to the screen (at least this is the largest factor). Therefore, applications that display large text bodies – text editors; rss readers etc. – show issues the most. Larger font sizes also seem to contribute. Reeder (the new retina supporting release) is a choppy 20-25fps, for example.
Changing text anti-aliasing modes makes no difference (sub-pixel hinting off / different "weights" of sub-pixel).
The issue is one that will likely be fixed at Apple's end, should enough noise be made. This may be as simple as fixing a blocking issue somewhere in their OS/UI stack, or offset by providing baked-in bitmap caching support for common text-centric UI elements so developers do not need to do this on their own (providing performance boosts as seen in Safari 6).

For what it's worth, I did most of my testing using the 1920x1200 scale mode. I did re-test at "Retina" scale where comparing Lion to ML especially, and found that this made little difference. I was mostly using smaller windows for tests that would fit on the retina and scaled mode without resizing the actual window content, meaning the only variable would be the OS double-sampling and scaling overheads (which seem to be very minimal).

Note that I also tried with a 27" cinema display connected and this did not impact performance at all.

I have to say overall that I am very happy with the system and while after initially testing in the apple store (before my order shipped) was considering cancelling, once you go retina you can't go back. The lag will be improved over time – whether it is Apple or devs of our core apps that fix it. Having Safari fixed does help a lot, too, so at least wait around for the ML release before making any rash decisions.

at very worst you can always boot windows for silky smooth performance.

Or run anon-retina resoloution using SwitchResX
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm fed up with people saying "Mountain Lion fixes this issue 100%". I am using ML, and yes, its Safari is better, but the UI is still choppy doing things like maximising windows, expose, switching desktops. Additionally, apps with large scroll areas (specifically, Sublime Text 2, which is retina optimised) are laggy - to the point of being unusable almost as a text editor.

I hope DP5/GM has improvements.
 
sireShonBohn said:
Great, so the rMBP is as fast as a 5 year old laptop, impressive to say the least.:(
Click to expand...

Neither of those computers are five years old (I forgot the Sony is actually an i5 but even the Dell is newer than 5 years). It is to say that both systems running Windows 7 have trouble on the same website at the same point. Actually, on the Sony, Facebook is horrible and I don't look at FB on the Dell but I imagine it isn't much different. I don't really have issues with FB on the rMBP.
 
mikeyg36 said:
After owning the rMBP for 2 days now, the only lagging or shuttering that I experience is when I scroll in a window with a lot of graphics such as a mac app store window, or the homepage of Mac Rumors. However this is apparently going to be fixed or improved in Mountain Lion. An in depth review for the Retina talks about it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94OenZ71ADY&feature=player_embedded. I have run CoD 4 at full res with max performance and I'll only see a minor drop in performance. I am not trying to justify my purchase, if I was noticing lackluster performance I'd bring it right back to Apple! I haven't tried it out in Final Cut yet so I can't give my opinion on processor intensive apps yet.
Click to expand...

I did this and now see what people are complaining about. I find it minimal and if the next OS solves the problem (or an update) great.

When I scroll put text...no issue.
 
j_maddison said:
If your using the full native resolution but with 200% DPI scaling then you are ;)
Click to expand...

Not even close, most of us who are noticing the most lag with rMBP are running the 'simulated' 1680/1920 scaled resolutions. Win7 isn't capable of that. (well, you can 'kinda' simulate it in win7 using the adjustable percentage scaling option, but it looks like trash) Also, win7 200% scaling option also scales everything from the UI to images in ALL apps by 200%, OSX runs 100% in images while UI is 200% in retina aware apps. The default 2x 1440 'best for retina' has actually less desktop space vs my 2011 hires MBP.
 
radu.valeriu said:
Hello

I’ve placed about a week ago an order for a 2.7/16 GB/512SSD MBPr but after reading all this and watching the demo videos I’m starting to have second thoughts.

<snip>

I really think I’ll cancel the retina until it’s more mature. Don’t get me wrong, I still think the MBPr it’s a great example of engineering but the user experience…seems to lag a little behind.
Click to expand...

I just received the same configuration that you ordered. I have had a few second thoughts (would that be second, third, fourth and fifth thoughts?) based on many criteria, not just scroll lag, but the scroll lag so far has been the issue I've seen the least. That said, I haven't put the machine through its paces yet, so this opinion is subject to change very quickly. ;-)
 
blow45 said:
I am opening this thread up as a place that users of the rmbp can share the experiences with the now well established issues with driving the retina display (see thread from front page as a primer:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1396188/ ).


These kinds of threads are always a minefield and people resort to a lot of bashing and counter bashing since, a. people that buy something want to rationalize away any problems to justify their purchase, and b. a lot of people here feel it's their duty to defend apple against any perceived "attack".


Let's try to keep this thread clear of that please. So it can be useful to any prospective buyers (I am one) who have been alarmed with the reporting on these issues and are having second thoughts on purchasing an rmbp.


The rMBP is a pushing the limits of technology, apple are to be commended for that. Maybe some will argue that their obsession with thinness has brought a big cost to performance and the slimming down was premature, when a thicker model could have afforded a better graphics card, or that maybe their rushing it to market to have first release bragging rights was too early. Whatever the case might be the notebook is out and it's in user hands now and can be evaluated.

Any polite feedback is appreciated: positive, negative and neutral.

Any specific problems with certain applications and lack thereof with others.

Any technical discussions are more than welcome.

Any experiences running ml dp and soon the ml official release to see if it's possible for software developments to make up for the hardware shotcomings.

Let's keep this clean and informative guys so everyone can read the feedback and assess the issues or lack thereof for themselves. :):apple:
Click to expand...
My understanding is that Apple is pushing the graphics technology because there are no graphics cards capable of handling the new Retina display. Apple doesn't have any higher options currently.

Despite this, the RMBP seems to be performing very well, lag-wise.
 
From my new Retina MacBook Pro

From my new Retina MacBook Pro:

It lags, but usable under Best for Retina.
Not so usable under 1920.
Updating Software right now.....

Will be back.
 
With external monitor?

What kind of performance are people seeing on external monitors with the retina display turned OFF ?

If the rMBP is not having to handle scaling for the retina display, how does it handle a common 1920x1080 HD monitor or an Apple 27" 2560x1440?

Anyone use one in that mode? A lot my time would be spent at a desk plugged into a monitor and keyboard.

Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back