An In-Depth Look at Storage and App Thinning on the New Apple TV

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I wasn't talking about Apple's profit (they seem to be doing quite well). Apple would get their profit whether this was 1080p or 4K. I was talking about the primary motivations of the Studios to test 4K in response to the extraordinarily illogical argument of the content must be in the iTunes store BEFORE Apple rolls out 4K TVs. That makes no sense if someone thinks it through... just like it makes no sense for Apple to halt development of A10 for the next iPhone until all of the apps in the app store are upgraded to fully take advantage of whatever is special about it. The hardware must LEAD. That's the only way it works.

As to the rest, who cares if it's 10 years or what "mainstream" even means? Apple has just put tens of millions of iPhones in people's hands that shoot 4K. In one year, that will be well over 100 million people building up libraries of 4K content, sharing 4K content on sites like youtube, etc. It needs an easy path to get to the 4K TVs that some of us have. You don't like it? You don't want 4K? No problem, if this box was 4K capable, it would simply be capable of playing your 1080p or 720p or SD that makes you happy now. It wouldn't force you to change ANYTHING or buy anything vs. what makes you happy on whatever TV you have now. What it would do is make another group happy too.

Just about everything ever shot on film is already stored at resolutions greater than 4K. It just needs a profitable outlet to reach the masses. Currently it's waiting on another round of discs but this was a tangible opportunity for Apple to beat the discs to market... and one IMO that made good sense since they hyped how their most important product could shoot 4K in the same presentation. Where's all that iPhone 6s 4K video going to go? As is, it's going to get downscaled to 1080p.

 

[LovingTeddy]

That's makes no sense.

You might as well say I can get a 128GB flash drive for $60 which is 8 times the storage of an iPhone for a fraction of the cost. You're not factoring in a screen, low energy (power) constraints for all the components, a battery, charging system and many other things that I can't think of at the moment. Nothing in the set top box needs to be low energy or small way cheaper to make.

Gary

I absolutely understand that this Apple TV cost less to produce than iPhone. The thing is that by putting 32GB as base storage on Apple TV and recommend people choice 64GB for large apps shows that Apple knows that 16GB isn't going to cut for any meanful way.

You might argue people buy 16GB that why Apple produce 16GB, then you gonna ask yourself, do people really gonna satisfied for 16GB? I always buying unlocked iPhone, and you know how expensive 64GB iPhone is. I am not willing to pay extra 100 dollar for the storage bump and I like iPhone.

Here is thing, if Apple can put 32GB on Apple TV, Apple can put 32GB on their base line iPhone. Even Apple store employee agree that 32GB should come standard.

 

[2010mini]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same old "evidence" against 1080p when Apple was still clinging to 720p.

The lack of content is the lamest of excuses as it makes no sense at all for any Studio to test any 4K movie or show for TV until there are 4K TV boxes in lots of homes. Wave the magic wand and make a 4K version for TV of everything in the iTunes store right now: how much money can be made? Not a nickel. Why? Because the HARDWARE MUST COME FIRST. It can't possibly work the other way.

Note how there are absolutely no apps in the iPhone app store dependent on the A10 yet. Maybe the A10 hardware development should wait until all the apps in the app store are coded to take advantage of it's unique features. Until all software in the app store is fully upgraded to take advantage of future hardware, Apple should just stop advancing the hardware.

This was a great opportunity for Apple to create the market... to be first with a viable, robust source of a new media superior to pretty much any other source out there. And it seemed to be a perfect fit given that the most important product to Apple rolled out with an ability to shoot 4K. As tens of millions of us shoot videos on our new iPhones, we're already creating tons of 4K video looking for some easy, "just works" way to reach our 4K TVs.

Lastly, there's no downside for the "1080p is good enough" crowd just as there was no downside for the "720p is good enough" crowd back when all this same #*!$% was slung against 1080p. Better hardware can play lessor software just fine... or, more clearly, a 4K TV could feed pristine 1080p or 720p or SD to a non-4K TV just as well as this box will. Games rendered for 1080p or 720p would simply upscale for those with 4K TVs just as 1080p or 720p movies upscale for them now. No downside for anyone had Apple gone ahead and made this thing 4K capable.

Before HDTVs came on the scene, the framework was already in place for it. It made sense then to upgrade from your CRT or rear projection CRT to a HDTV because we ABSOLUTELY knew HD content was coming. We KNEW networks and Studios were going to start transmitting in SDTV, EDTV, and HDTV. We even had a line drawn in the sand to tell us when.

Today we have no such certainty from ISPs to upgrade their networks to support 4K streaming. We have no certainty from networks or studios to start broadcasting in 4K. All we have are TV manufactures partnered with various content providers saying "OH YEAH!..... 4K is here.....trust me.... wink wink."

 

[smoking monkey]

The new Apple TV is the second strike in a row for Apple. The first was the Apple Watch.

OK, so this new Apple TV. What are its big new features?
- Siri? Most people I know never use Siri on their phones, so why would it be a huge selling point?
- Universal search? Sure, this is a great idea, but when Plex and Amazon aren't available, it's kind of pointless. "Univeral search" isn't "universal" unless it covers all the big players.
- Gaming? The remotes cost $79!!! More than the much, much, much better gaming controllers from Sony and Microsoft. Come on Apple, you can't get away with charging the Apple tax if your products are demonstrably inferior.

I'm half with you, half against. The Apple Watch, while nice, really just isn't the product it should be and it does seem underwhelming at the moment. As for this new Apple TV... With you on the game controller, but think Siri will be really useful. Personally, I use Siri A LOT on my phone. As an educator (among other things!) the unplugged HEY SIRI function is truly the best thing Apple has done in yonks. For personal use I wish it would work through the mic on the headphones though.

I'm going to wait and see how this new ATV turns out. I have one and use it with BEAMER and streaming Rugby League matches via LiveStream and love it for that. But don't really need it for anything else unless Apple can show me something worthwhile.

 

[moxxham]

It's stupid because there is very little if any content compared to 1080p. Not to mention that EVERY ISP has instituted data caps. The data needed for 4K streaming is high. If 4K right now, was as widely available as 1080p, yeah I would be upset that it wasn't included. However, I am not. There simply isn't enough content to justify adding that feature. It's not stupid, it makes sense.

http://business.financialpost.com/f...uy-a-high-resolution-4k-television-not-really

According to a recent report by market research firm NDP, during the first three months of 2015, 4K televisions maintained a relatively small market share, contributing to just five per cent of overall television sales. However, since most 4K TVs cost considerably more than a standard definition television, 4K sales accounted for 16 per cent of dollars spent on TVs, a two per cent increase over the same period last year.

“Regarding the outlook for 2015, much depends on the course that the industry will take on setting prices, particularly during the holiday shopping season. If prices continue to drop at their current rate, and given the broad number of 4K models currently being introduced into the market, I would expect the unit share of 4K to increase from the current 5 per cent to approximately 15 per cent by the end of the year,” said Mark Haar, director, consumer electronics and home at NPD Group.

Content wait

The main drawback of 4K TVs is that there just isn’t much native content available to consumers.

Television manufacturers such as Sony and Samsung often boast about 4K televisions’ ability to upscale 1080p content to a higher resolution. Upscaling takes a standard 720p or 1080p high-definition resolution video, and then increases the pixel count to 4K, adding additional detail and improved visual fidelity in the process.

But critics say upscaling isn’t worth the additional cost. Geoffrey Morrison, a journalist with CNET who frequently reviews and writes about televisions, says most people will notice a marginal improvement over standard 1080p when content is upscaled, but that the improvement is hardly worth the current cost of a 4K television.

“Unless someone is planning on getting a really big TV (over 60 inches) the added detail of 4K won’t really be noticeable. Since nearly all content is 1080p (or lower) and will be for many years, even people wanting to ‘future proof’ will probably be fine with 1080p for this TV,” Morrison said.

Morrison believes the more noticeable improvement in televisions will come from what is referred to as “high dynamic range” – technology that makes a TV’s picture more closely resemble how the human eye views objects – and expanded colour, which makes colours more vibrant and realistic, rather than the additional pixels of 4K.

“TVs aren’t really worth the premium over a good/cheaper 1080p model. 4K TVs will be better and cheaper next year,” said Morrison.

Another barrier to 4K televisions is the amount of content available in 4K is still very minimal. Consumer physical disc versions of 4K movies or television shows still don’t exist, although 4K Blu-rays and players are expected to arrive at some point in 2015. Because of the lack of physical content, movie and television shows, streaming platform Netflix has become the leader in 4K content.

But in Canada slow Internet connections and restrictive bandwidth caps are an obstacle for those interested in subscribing to Netflix’s slightly higher priced $11.99 4K subscription plan (a basic Netflix subscription costs $7.99).

“Increasingly most of our live action originals are available in 4K. That started withHouse of Cards season two and rolled into season three, Bloodline and Daredevil. It’s the largest selection of 4K content available outside of Sony’s set-top box,” Cliff Edwards, Netflix’s director of corporate communications.

Waiting until 4K becomes a more viable resolution platform for content creators is likely a better option than purchasing a 4K television right now, which some experts estimate could still take a number of years.

It might not makes sense for you, but it makes sense for many others.
Im a photographer and my boyfriend is a videographer. Our drone, camera and videocameras all shoot in 4K, we edit in 4K. The ATV4 would be a fantastic way to get it onto our tv and see all our footage pixel for pixel. I, like many others, were pretty disappointed that they left 4k out considering the new iPhones shoot 4K also.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Before HDTVs came on the scene, the framework was already in place for it. It made sense then to upgrade from your CRT or rear projection CRT to a HDTV because we ABSOLUTELY knew HD content was coming. We KNEW networks and Studios were going to start transmitting in SDTV, EDTV, and HDTV. We even had a line drawn in the sand to tell us when.

Today we have no such certainty from ISPs to upgrade their networks to support 4K streaming. We have no certainty from networks or studios to start broadcasting in 4K. All we have are TV manufactures partnered with various content providers saying "OH YEAH!..... 4K is here.....trust me.... wink wink."

Again, 4K wouldn't have to affect you personally at all. Hardware capable of playing something more than whatever makes you happy will be able to play your favored resolution to it's fullest. It wouldn't force you to buy a new TV, as the existing TV you have- whatever it is- could keep getting used by better hardware... just as a 1080p TV caused no problems for those with a "720p is good enough" mentality. The iTunes store offers videos in 1080p, 720p and SD so one can pick whatever makes them happy. Having a 4K option where available would just be an option for those other Apple consumers- who are not you- to download the version they want.

And the whole transition to HDTV argument- while it has some validity- didn't include 1080p. The mandate was 1080i or 720p. Yet Apple embraced 1080p with the TV3. And where were you to fault them for it then?

Next year or so when Apple rolls out the TV5 "now with 4K" I expect you above almost all others to show up and rip Apple to shreds for embracing such a gimmick. Because if a segment of us consumers are so very wrong for wishing they had gone ahead and done that with this "4", Apple should be wrong for doing that with the "5". So you be sure to show up in those announcement threads and rip Apple a new one. I'll be watching for you.

Now I'll go look through the iPhone 6s, iMovie, FCPX, iMac 5K and now 4K and other threads where a key benefit is other Apple hardware embracing 4K and see if I can find you ripping on Apple for embracing 4K in pretty much all of their other stuff. Apparently, it should make no sense in all that other Apple stuff too but why do I think I won't find you there griping about Apple's poor decision to embrace 4K?

 

[Explorz]

Does anyone know if it is possible to migrate all my subscriptions over from an ATV 3 to the ATV 4?

I would rather not have to re-subscribe to all my different accounts.

 

[GPDawes]

For those looking for better iTunes music server/NSA integration forget it.
The new apple TV still does not see my collection on my NAS (my mac running iTunes can)
iPhones,iPads can be paired with the remote app to play back from my collection but can't find away of playing music from a NAS with native iTunes client in the new apple TV.

I hope Sinology and Qnap port their IOS apps to TVOS. But to me its criminal that Apple don't make it easier for people with large music collections to play their collection back on an Apple TV and add flac support (Come on even Windows 10 plays back flac as well as MP3). (I don't want to recode everything to ALAC)

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Does anyone know if it is possible to migrate all my subscriptions over from an ATV 3 to the ATV 4?

I would rather not have to re-subscribe to all my different accounts.

I don't think anyone allowed to answer knows much of anything for sure yet. My guess is that it will probably be a smooth transition because I suspect those subscriptions are stored outside of the TV on Apple's iTunes (account) servers. So once you show that you now own a new TV, iTunes should authorize the same access.

But that's just a best guess. If someone else guesses the opposite, their guess is just as good.

 

[Getafe]

I always play it safe. I have bought the 64GB version. I don't care if I use less than 32GB, it's alway nice to know the storage is there if you ever need it! That is what I have always said.

I can not wait for my Apple TV to arrive thought. I am super super buzzed it's finally almost here!!

 

[LordBeelzebub]

This whole app thinning thing and concern over storage space seems ridiculous to me. Why not just release a 64 and 128 gig versions instead. Why limit app developers instead of just putting more storage in the friggin thing?

 

[macfoxpro]

The new Apple TV is the second strike in a row for Apple. The first was the Apple Watch.

OK, so this new Apple TV. What are its big new features?
- Siri? Most people I know never use Siri on their phones, so why would it be a huge selling point?
- Universal search? Sure, this is a great idea, but when Plex and Amazon aren't available, it's kind of pointless. "Univeral search" isn't "universal" unless it covers all the big players.
- Gaming? The remotes cost $79!!! More than the much, much, much better gaming controllers from Sony and Microsoft. Come on Apple, you can't get away with charging the Apple tax if your products are demonstrably inferior.

Which one are you getting, 32gb or 64gb?

 

[wlossw]

So will this thing fly through my data capped home internet service?

My Apple TV 3 with a busy photostream already did that to me... That's why I added the unlimited package...

 

[Peepo]

I know. I find it bizarre that you can download the 2GB Guitar Hero Live on a 16GB iPhone with (for most) but can't on an ATV with 3x the storage. Of course this means true "off line" games are probably not possible as the ATV will always have to be d/l to keep ahead of the user. Didn't M$ get into hot water and then back pedal for trying to require the Xbox One having to have Internet access 24/7?

It is explained that only the app itself is initially limited to 200MB. When an app is first installed it can request 2GB additional resources immediately. Each app has a maximum 20GB of icloud data storage which can be downloaded on demand in pieces. If all you do is play guitar hero and don't really use more than 32GB or 64GB (depending on which model you get) then you will be fine. If you start installing other apps and viewing lots of videos/pictures from icloud photo library, playing lots of music etc. then AppleTV will automatically thin out space rather than you having manage apps/media and uninstall manually. I cannot see Apple deleting apps unnecessarily but rather only if space is needed.

Let's say this thinning didn't exist and it is more like iPhone - you have Guitar Hero at 2GB. But you have 15-20 other apps that are using up most of storage and you find that you are don't have enough space to install Guitar Hero. Therefore the only solution is you have to delete old apps - figure out which ones to delete manually. It is also likely that all your settings and achievements for a game or app may be gone if an app is deleted.

Does it still sound that bad or bizarre?

 

[Muzzakus]

$269 in Australia. Is this some kind of a joke? Thing is dead on arrival.

 

[CarlJ]

It will likely take awhile for developers and users to wrap their heads around storage issues...

Yes, it will be a terrible burden on users...

Or maybe, maybe it'll take care of itself, and "just work". What they've described sounds a lot like much of that 32GB (or 64GB) will essentially be working as a huge cache for downloaded assets. So if you use something often, it'll just be hanging out in flash all the time, unless something else really needs the space.

 

[Munky]

Yeah, it's really stupid that business try and make as much money as possible.

Apple says they have goals of enriching peoples lives and making a difference as much as possible....but this is a BUSINESS doing these things, and they have shareholders to work for as well.

In short, you will buy it, and if you don't, someone else will. Apple will make their billions and they will come out with an Apple TV 5 with minimal upgrade.

 

[ghost187]

I know. I find it bizarre that you can download the 2GB Guitar Hero Live on a 16GB iPhone with (for most) but can't on an ATV with 3x the storage. Of course this means true "off line" games are probably not possible as the ATV will always have to be d/l to keep ahead of the user. Didn't M$ get into hot water and then back pedal for trying to require the Xbox One having to have Internet access 24/7?

Well, that's because they're competing with a superior product from Sony, and risked losing badly if they didn't change their stance. I think Apple is just getting their feet wet with the App Store on Apple TV, but in future TV OS updates, they may backtrack. At least we can hope.

 

[CarlJ]

The apple watch has the issue of a weak processor, bad battery and not much storage because its so small....

So you're saying I should cancel my plans to run SETI@Home and Folding@Home on it while I walk around?

 

[2010mini]

Again, 4K wouldn't have to affect you personally at all. Hardware capable of playing something more than whatever makes you happy will be able to play your favored resolution to it's fullest. It wouldn't force you to buy a new TV, as the existing TV you have- whatever it is- could keep getting used by better hardware... just as a 1080p TV caused no problems for those with a "720p is good enough" mentality. The iTunes store offers videos in 1080p, 720p and SD so one can pick whatever makes them happy. Having a 4K option where available would just be an option for those other Apple consumers- who are not you- to download the version they want.

And the whole transition to HDTV argument- while it has some validity- didn't include 1080p. The mandate was 1080i or 720p. Yet Apple embraced 1080p with the TV3. And where were you to fault them for it then?

Next year or so when Apple rolls out the TV5 "now with 4K" I expect you above almost all others to show up and rip Apple to shreds for embracing such a gimmick. Because if a segment of us consumers are so very wrong for wishing they had gone ahead and done that with this "4", Apple should be wrong for doing that with the "5". So you be sure to show up in those announcement threads and rip Apple a new one. I'll be watching for you.

Now I'll go look through the iPhone 6s, iMovie, FCPX, iMac 5K and now 4K and other threads where a key benefit is other Apple hardware embracing 4K and see if I can find you ripping Apple to shreds for embracing 4K in pretty much all of their other stuff. It should make no sense in all that other Apple stuff too but why do I think I won't find you there griping about Apple's poor decision to embrace 4K?

If Apple TV brings out 4K next year I will be laughing at youz wasting your money. the only thing that would make it worthwhile is an A9X or higher chip. until I see some movement by the FCC to lay the groundwork for OTA 4K broadcasting, I'll replace my current HD TV with another 1080p TV with HDR functionality. I'll check back in another 5 years and see where 4K or some other standard lies.

 

[JEREZANO]

Waiting to buy CRAIGLIST

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

If Apple TV brings out 4K next year I will be laughing at youz wasting your money. the only thing that would make it worthwhile is an A9X or higher chip. until I see some movement by the FCC to lay the groundwork for OTA 4K broadcasting, I'll replace my current HD TV with another 1080p TV with HDR functionality. I'll check back in another 5 years and see where 4K or some other standard lies.

That's exactly what YOU should do. Again, better hardware will play whatever you think is ideal that is not 4K... be that 1080p or 720p or even SD. It doesn't force you to buy a new TV or rent or buy any 4K video or anything else. What it does do is allow other people- who are not you- to get something they want too. Whether they can see a difference or not, or whether you laughing at them can be heard by them is irrelevant. In my scenario, you are completely unaffected but they get what they want from Apple too. In your scenario, they are excluded because they can't see things as YOU see things.

But again, I expect to see you ripping on Apple when THEY embrace 4K in the "5". That's what I don't see much from you. Instead, it appears that Apple is pretty much always right in your eyes. And thus 4K is to be ridiculed for this particular Apple product right now because Apple did not embrace it here. But I don't see much from you ridiculing Apple for putting 4K recording in iPhones or 4K editing in iMovie & FCPX or touting 4K editing in new iMac 5K and 4K models, etc. Seems like if it's ridiculous here in this one product, it would be just as ridiculous there in all those other products. But Apple has embraced 4K in those... so it must be right.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

How do you know that 64 gb won't be enough? And why do you need this to be in rose gold?

He'll be able to store more on it with 128 GB.

He may prefer the pink colour to the one currently offered.

 

[Shawnny Canuck]

The Canadian pricing is disappointing.

 

[ZeRoLiMiT]

Waiting to buy CRAIGLIST

for double the price!