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Analysys Expect Intel Macs in January
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PowerBook on Life Support - "pull the plug" on G4!
First time post, long time reader - I post on other sites regularly...
I agree with Lacero: the PowerBook needs a heart transplant, 'cuz the G4 has had so many bypass ops that it looks like a plate of spaghetti... I think it will be announced at the keynote, but available first week of February. It will be the dual-core, 32bit Yonah in the 15 & 17" models at up to the top projected speed of 2.1GHz. As for the 12" PB, who knows...
The iBook will follow in about May-June, when Intel releases the single-core, 32bit Yonah - just in time for back-to-school.
Then, around September, when Intel releases the dual-core, 64bit Merom, I (personally) think that we will see the PowerBook line expand into a "regular" lineup of the dual-core Yonah at 13"/15" WS (the 17" will switch exclusively to Merom). And we will see a new "PowerBook Pro" line featuring Merom at 15"/17" WS-HD(?), top-end GPUs with up to 256MB of VRAM, S-ATA HDs, Airport/Centrino 802.11n, etc.
And as far as the mini goes, I think the present form-factor may wait until the single-core Yonah in June. However, if the DVR rumors are true, we will see a "fat mini" at MWSF. With that taller form-factor it will have a BTO option of 3.5" hard drives up to 500GB, and a much-improved GPU (compared to the still-shipping current mini), better audio i/o, Centrino 802.11n, etc.
As for the iMac, I think that, strictly from a marketing standpoint, we will not see it switch to Intel until Merom, due to the "sticky quandry" of taking a step backwards (to 32bit, albeit dual-core, Yonah) from the 64bit G5... Still, I think Apple will get at least 2-300 more MHz out of the PPC970 before Merom, as well as a GPU upgrade and 802.11n(?)...
XServe will wait for... I think it's called Woodcrest(?)... the server design-variant of the Yonah architecture. And the PowerMacs will await Conroe, which will debut around the same time as Merom, I seem to recall.
Just my thoughts...
Lacero said:
First time post, long time reader - I post on other sites regularly...
I agree with Lacero: the PowerBook needs a heart transplant, 'cuz the G4 has had so many bypass ops that it looks like a plate of spaghetti... I think it will be announced at the keynote, but available first week of February. It will be the dual-core, 32bit Yonah in the 15 & 17" models at up to the top projected speed of 2.1GHz. As for the 12" PB, who knows...
The iBook will follow in about May-June, when Intel releases the single-core, 32bit Yonah - just in time for back-to-school.
Then, around September, when Intel releases the dual-core, 64bit Merom, I (personally) think that we will see the PowerBook line expand into a "regular" lineup of the dual-core Yonah at 13"/15" WS (the 17" will switch exclusively to Merom). And we will see a new "PowerBook Pro" line featuring Merom at 15"/17" WS-HD(?), top-end GPUs with up to 256MB of VRAM, S-ATA HDs, Airport/Centrino 802.11n, etc.
And as far as the mini goes, I think the present form-factor may wait until the single-core Yonah in June. However, if the DVR rumors are true, we will see a "fat mini" at MWSF. With that taller form-factor it will have a BTO option of 3.5" hard drives up to 500GB, and a much-improved GPU (compared to the still-shipping current mini), better audio i/o, Centrino 802.11n, etc.
As for the iMac, I think that, strictly from a marketing standpoint, we will not see it switch to Intel until Merom, due to the "sticky quandry" of taking a step backwards (to 32bit, albeit dual-core, Yonah) from the 64bit G5... Still, I think Apple will get at least 2-300 more MHz out of the PPC970 before Merom, as well as a GPU upgrade and 802.11n(?)...
XServe will wait for... I think it's called Woodcrest(?)... the server design-variant of the Yonah architecture. And the PowerMacs will await Conroe, which will debut around the same time as Merom, I seem to recall.
Just my thoughts...
Well, I'm a business analyst and I don't say that. And every report I've read that talked about the fat margin was either unclear on the cost apportioned to the OS, or specifically considered that a research cost which was paid for by the fat margin (ie the margin is calculated without considering the cost). Dell knows they pay $X for WindowsXP so it gets considered in the margin.mhouse said:
When you next read any report on Apple margins, consider that aspect and check how the researcher approaches the OSX costs.
I think they will put intel in the iBook before the Powerbook but we'll see. I'm no expert but from just talking to people who use Macs or are looking to switch, they are much more interested in buying an intel iBook than an intel Powerbook.
Randall said:
Because I write software for PCs and Macs. If I can get a dual boot Apple, I only have to buy 1 machine, my machine of choice changes from Dell to Apple, and I still save money. If I can get that machine with a dual core then I can get rid of and never have to replace the dual processor desktops that use for building and debugging the multi threaded code, again more money. I am twitching for a dual core power book that will dual boot with Windows and has a decent video card.
Apple are going to produce an intel mac mini and a seperate PVR/home theatre box with intel proc. They are going to use the Yonah chip for v1.0
@Norse Son, I agree & welcome to Macrumors where the applesauce turns.
Today I saw user on the bus home from work using a 12" PowerBook G4! Not sure the revision, but I was impressed to see that it still is a wicked machine; portable and excellent for this user which was a website coder for his job. I couldnt tell what he was coding but he did say that he was a linux user but decided to get the machine because he really adored the hardware. This last bit I hope remains in for all of us potential users and droolers , in the next iteration of PowerBooks.
Im not too concerned about 32-bit dual core or 64-bit dual core if not enough apps support it; but I'm more concerned about fit & finish, longevity, and overal harmony of components. ex; it took Apple way too long to finally use 128MB video memory in the Pro line of laptops. Our cousins in PC land have the options of 128-256MB video chips that are hot swappable on their high-end models and their resolutions can handle it!
I want to see 256MB Built to order option & an Option for this in the 15/17inch PowerBooks as an upgrade.
PS I'll be sad to see the 12inch go though ... maybe one day, maybe...
Today I saw user on the bus home from work using a 12" PowerBook G4! Not sure the revision, but I was impressed to see that it still is a wicked machine; portable and excellent for this user which was a website coder for his job. I couldnt tell what he was coding but he did say that he was a linux user but decided to get the machine because he really adored the hardware. This last bit I hope remains in for all of us potential users and droolers
, in the next iteration of PowerBooks.Im not too concerned about 32-bit dual core or 64-bit dual core if not enough apps support it; but I'm more concerned about fit & finish, longevity, and overal harmony of components. ex; it took Apple way too long to finally use 128MB video memory in the Pro line of laptops. Our cousins in PC land have the options of 128-256MB video chips that are hot swappable on their high-end models and their resolutions can handle it!
I want to see 256MB Built to order option & an Option for this in the 15/17inch PowerBooks as an upgrade.
PS I'll be sad to see the 12inch go though ... maybe one day, maybe...
Randall said:
haha. the post by digitalbiker is one of the very few posts in this thread that actually said something. Intel fanbois take note.
And yes, the betamax vs VHS comparison is correct. I'm actually wondering if you even know what you are talking about or just troll this forum.
GregA said:
Okay. I'm not analyst so I have *no clue* personally. Certainly there are a great many people who think Apple has the best margins *in the PC business.* Now the margins in that industry are notoriously thin so maybe Apple's are only good in a relative sense.
Apple did manage to stay in business an awful long time before the iPod and iTunes showed up. I just wonder how they managed it if the margins aren't pretty good. They certainly didn't make their loot in volume.
But, in any case, my overall point is that Apple can certainly reduce that margin a bit and still make money on their computer business.
Which, logically, they must when they move to Intel. The processors that replace the G4 *will* be more expensive. Unless Intel is giving them some kind of discount that they don't give to anyone else.
How am I a troll? Because I'm an Intel "fanboy"? Puh-leese. The betamax vs VHS comparison is not correct. If that were the case, then one of these architectures would be a total failure, and I don't think that's the case at all. But if you insist to use it, then guess wich architecture would equate to betamax? Yup you guessed it... and betamax was a complete and total failure. IMO that is still a terrible annalogy for what we're talking about here. I know a lot about the x86 architecture, I am a computer engineer and I've had the unplesentry of writing assembly code for both RISC and CISC architectures. And to be honest, Reduced Instruction Set Computers are the way to go. More instructions, but much more streightforward. So in a way I am sad to see the PowerPC and RISC architecture to leave the Mac. Developers welcome to assembly hell, where CISC is your friend. Who knows, maybe lots of people love CISC assembly. Sick bastards.minimax said:
Apple won't skimp on the features or hardware, they can't afford to do it again. This is going to be like their "rebrith" (for lack of a better word) and Apple knows if they don't start it with a bang, they may never get another chance.
MWSF lasts several days; which day do they release new products? At what time?
Is it during the keynote by Steve Jobs where they release everything?
Is it during the keynote by Steve Jobs where they release everything?
PubGuy said:
Ha! I thought I was one of the only ones on the forum with the original TiBook 400! I've got 640 mb of ram and 10.4.3, and it still chugs. I won't buy another Powerbook until we get 64-bit dual core chips and this current LCD panel dies. Will probably be 1-1.5 years, but I think if i can use 5 year old technology now, I can hold off 15 months
Dual core in a lappy sounds pretty crazy though!
John Lennon Bus Was There Last Year As Well
John Lennon Bus Was There Last Year As Well. I took the tour.Peace said:
EricNau said:MWSF lasts several days; which day do they release new products? At what time?
Is it during the keynote by Steve Jobs where they release everything?
I belive they release them ALL on Jan. 10th @ 10 AM Pacific Time.
Im so proud of myself for knowing that off the top of my head
The Steve Jobs keynote starts at 9:00 PST, but I had to look that up.runninmac said:I belive they release them ALL on Jan. 10th @ 10 AM Pacific Time.
Im so proud of myself for knowing that off the top of my head
Randall said:Who here thinks that Apple with come out with Intel Powerbooks in January?
I very much doubt it. Just a mac mini with media center functionality, and maybe MAYBE (thats a big maybe) an ibook. New shuffle with bookmarking capability. ilife '06 (with frontrow 2.0) and iwork '06.
What's not going to happen:
powerbook update
tablet
newton
imac update
Multimedia said:
I don't doubt you took the tour.I was just going by what MWSF says on their website.
http://www.macworldexpo.com/live/20/events/20SFO06A/SN322012#MAP
"For the first time at Macworld Conference & Expo, experience first hand the John Lennon Educational Tour Bus."
GregA said:
Apple makes higher margins on hardware for a few key reasons:
1. The margins on the pro machines are high, and Apple sells more pro machines, and encourages the sales team to sell significant numbers of pro machines.
2. Notebooks are higher margin than desktops, and over half of Apples's sales come from notebook machines, putting them a step ahead of the competition (due to attractive notebook designs)
3. Selling boxed copies of OS X. These arer basically gravy and generate huge profits for apple. Mostly likely 70% profit. Salespeople are also encouraged to sell these products.
4. Selling boxed software. iLife, Appleworks, iWork, Fincal Cut etc. These are also high margin products. Apple aslo offers spiffs on pro software sales as well, giving Apple sales and partners incentives to sell high margin pro software.
5. Selling Apple accessories. Airport cards, remotes, batteries, power adapters. Truth be told, Apple has a much higher number of accessories to generate larger margins on. The average computer manufacture only owns power adapters and batteries, no additional hardware like wireless accessories and the rest.
6. .Mac and Applecare. These are the most important moneymaker for Apple and are the main reason their margins are huge in the industry. Apple maintains quotas for all sales channels on A9plecare and .Mac attach rates. These are 80%+ profit. Apple typically has about a 70% attach rate on Applecare products for computers, and .Mac is about 30 or 35% attach rate. These numbers maintain Apple margins, and lead the industry by a long shot. HP, Compaq, and Sony don't have this sort of option to offer on their computers, and this money is collected by the retailers in extended warranty revenues.
As Apple direct hardware margins have decreased, Apple sets more agressive targets for the ancillary items and maintains the profitability.
Wow there is a pretty high FUD factor on the thread already. I think this transition is going to get uglier before it gets better with PPC hold outs lambasting x86 users even with every benchmark to the contrary. This is going to get ugly.
Is Apple ready with their software?
It may come down more to things like is Rosetta ready? How much software is actually ready for the Intel Macs? Will the new machines be faster with native Intel Mac programs than the old PPC Macs? With a release before Rosetta & enough native Intel Mac sotware is ready will the Intel Macs take a big hit in sales? Will the perceived hit be big enough that Apple will wait until later in the year for a better Rosetta & more native Intel Mac software?
Since Intel is now going to stress the power per watt instead of clock speed, the new Intel Macs may be slower than their PPC counterparts. Just look at the Pentium M speeds aound & below 2 GHz. You may need a 4 GHz Intel Mac when you're running Rosetta to give you acceptable speeds when running your programs.
Is Apple selling enough iPods to carry them over until the Intel Mac runs as fast as the old PPC Mac? Will Apple become even more of a music company rather a computer hardware/software manufacturer. By the way does Apple actually manufacture any of their computers &/or iPods anymore? Or is everything produced by contract manufacturers in CHINA?
Bill the TaxMan
Macrumors said:
The Examiner/Bloomberg News reports that a number of analysts are expecting Apple to introduce Intel-based Macs in January at Macworld San Francisco.
"Unidentified industry sources" are cited as the source of this information.
While this could represent independent sources, it may also simply represent the same stories that have been reported at MacRumors over the past few weeks.
It may come down more to things like is Rosetta ready? How much software is actually ready for the Intel Macs? Will the new machines be faster with native Intel Mac programs than the old PPC Macs? With a release before Rosetta & enough native Intel Mac sotware is ready will the Intel Macs take a big hit in sales? Will the perceived hit be big enough that Apple will wait until later in the year for a better Rosetta & more native Intel Mac software?
Since Intel is now going to stress the power per watt instead of clock speed, the new Intel Macs may be slower than their PPC counterparts. Just look at the Pentium M speeds aound & below 2 GHz. You may need a 4 GHz Intel Mac when you're running Rosetta to give you acceptable speeds when running your programs.
Is Apple selling enough iPods to carry them over until the Intel Mac runs as fast as the old PPC Mac? Will Apple become even more of a music company rather a computer hardware/software manufacturer. By the way does Apple actually manufacture any of their computers &/or iPods anymore? Or is everything produced by contract manufacturers in CHINA?
Bill the TaxMan
ibook if we're lucky. honestly, if they come out with a powerbook thats a stupid move made purely for money. the product would be worse than the one out now(besides the processor speed). don't forget its going to be a rev. a of a brand new processor architecture.