Another Designer Leaves Apple

[Detektiv-Pinky]

I’ve gone through every iteration since the PowerBook G4, including models without HDMI, and having it is a blessing every single day. Any video professional, or speaker, or presenter, or educator loves being able to plug in natively. I don’t miss the dongle days at all.

This!

As soon as you are using your MacBook in some sort of professional activity, having a working HDMI port is a blessing. Unfortunately I started to have compatibility problems with my M4 MacBook and certain overhead projectors (NEC in particular). My old MacBook from 2014 can connect to it just fine. With the new one I found out, that not even all the dongles work - only some. I even had the mainboard replaced by Apple, but still...

 

[laptech]

You know what I see.. I think Tim Cook is being forced to resign from Apple for the mishandling of the AI.. They are hiding it behind “age”… but as a board member, you can’t be happy with it and the bleeding lost of talent. Makes sense to make the change.

That is a very good point. Cook messed up with the Apple car idea, lost the company a whole chunk of money. The company is way behind on AI, they are losing very good AI talent to their rivals and losing very good design talent due to them quitting. This would get the board members very worried that the company CEO is unable to stop the rot and therefore find away to remove him as CEO without being dramatic about it.

 

[t0rqx]

Apple's playbook left by Steve Jobs ran out. All they have been doing since iPhone 12 onwards is how to cheapen the iPhone and increase the profit. It's the sole reason there has been no difference between 12 - 16 series.

iPhone 17 was just copying other designs and rearrange components. Innovative ideas were shot by financial departments. The reason all the designers left, cause there was no design work just 'how-to lower cost work'.

iPhone 17 Pro series is a flop in terms of design and engineering. Even basic RFI shielding was forgotten, which causes all the 17 Pro models make an static noise sound when charging. Which can be heard if you record videos while being plugged in a powerbank.

Apple is going down and it is imploding, while shareholders are blindfolded by "great sales of 17 Pro models".

Marketing team is shutting down the static noise headlines by contacting all social media platform/influencers and telling them not to report further.

All people who have worked with Jobs are leaving or retiring. This company if not led properly will face the same future like when Steve Jobs was ousted from his own company. Even titans fall.

 

[ChrisMac47]

Honestly, this is exactly what happens when a company stops pushing real innovation and just keeps recycling the same product year after year. Apple’s been playing it safe for the better part of a decade, and I’d bet good money the design team has been boxed in by leadership with almost zero room to take risks.

Top-tier designers don’t want to spend their careers making the same thing, but slightly thinner. They want to create, experiment, and push boundaries. When you clip their wings, they’re going to go somewhere that actually lets them fly especially now that AI startups are giving people the freedom Apple used to be known for. As long as Cook is running the show with this ultra conservative, don’t rock the boat approach, Apple’s design culture is only going to slide further. You can already see the downward spiral starting.

And not just designers. Engineers too get fed up of working on projects that are simply incremental ... for example, future iPhones that are minor iterations on the present. They are not innovating, the directive to them is to shave a few percent off costs.

The culture of greed is so strong in Apple, I can't see things changing when Cook retires. It's so sad.

 

[Alexander_im]

Honestly it's starting to show and not in a good way. We need some of the brutal Apple design ethos, stubbornness and ruthless attention to detail back from Jobs mind. We need a bit more form over function again, it's what made Apple unique.

I agree. This year’s Pro was the first iPhone to startle me. To me it feels like it was built by engineers with a little to none input by designers. It’s a shame that Air didn’t work out. Now Apple has a reason to double down on industrial boxy designs.

 

[Happy_John]

How well did those sell?

Enough to build Apple from a garage start up (Ok - it the beginning it was the Apple I and Apple II - but they, guess what, also before Ives’ time) to a small, but international and internationally-recognised computer company. They were a fraction of the size of IBM, but had international pretendent.

Apple was a well-known and establised Company long before Ives appeared.

 

[Ctrlos]

That is a very good point. Cook messed up with the Apple car idea, lost the company a whole chunk of money. The company is way behind on AI, they are losing very good AI talent to their rivals and losing very good design talent due to them quitting. This would get the board members very worried that the company CEO is unable to stop the rot and therefore find away to remove him as CEO without being dramatic about it.

Why are they behind on AI but were never behind on internet search? Why is Spotlight ok to plug into Google for its web needs but Siri not ok to use ChatGPT?

 

[ChrisMac47]

We?

I came here for the actual Mac rumours prior to the iPhone introduction, and the current Mac lineup is actually my favourite in 42 years.

I agree, the Mac lineup is excellent, with a range of products at different price/performance points, and distinct designs ... for example, MacMini or iMac for a desktop, they are physically very different but both run the same MacOS.

But the phones? They are all "the same", give or take and are over-priced for what they offer (or fail to offer). For example, where is a viable entry-level $349 (or better, $299) phone that might grow the user-base of iOS from its worldwide 25%-30%?

The only reason that I still continue to buy an iPhone is because it talks to my Mac and iPad. I'm in the Apple prison and making the best of it. But there is no fun in my iPhone, no innovation, it's just 100% boring ... and ridiculously expensive.

 

[Happy_John]

He also made clown noses 🔴

He „reimagined” red noses. The charity event and its red noses has been running since 1988. Ives was involved in 2023.

Both Apple and Red Nose Day came into existance and promanence long before Ives had anything to do with them.

The „no Jobs without Ives” argument ignores the timeline. Ives had a massive effect on the design of Apple products, but he was in no way a founder of the Company, and he definately did not bring Apple out of obscurity.

Windowed OSes using mice predate Ives.

It’s very unfair how much people bang on about Ives but Terry Oyama, Jerry Manock and Susan Kare are not mentioned nearly enough. Without them Ives would never had the chance to do what he did.

 

[McNoise]

because AI hardware - is so important....???

AI is what the internet was 30 years ago and we are at the very beginning.

So, does a young designer want to develop boring things that have been around for 20 years (smartphones) or something truly new? With his work at Apple and the development of a completely new smartphone, I think he has enough references to get into pretty much anywhere.

 

[antonrg]

NO.

Ive was really good for Apple in the early years, when engineers had a say and would make sure the design was practical too. Then he got promoted SVP. After Ive leaving the MBP suddenly got more than two ports, card reader and magsafe charging. All these were removed under Ive. Even the small MBP now has two USB ports because the CPU does not have enough lanes for TB - but Ive would refuse to "add" any ports distracting from his design. A single port and lots of dongles (HDMI, USB-A, Ethernet, Card-reader,...).

He would have never done a large heatsink for a MacMini which is the Studio, a great replacement over the trashcan (I've both). Apple later admitted they "designed themselves into a corner" with the sleek (yes!!!) trashcan. Ive is very good, but his late designs are "meh". The new Mini with the power button underneath shows Ive's rigid design philosophy. "Humane AI pin"... anybody?

I have to agree, MacBooks became much better since he left, although I do love my MacBook 12" which I still use for light work. My MacBook Pro is honestly the best laptop I have ever had.

 

[tomtad]

You know what I see.. I think Tim Cook is being forced to resign from Apple for the mishandling of the AI.. They are hiding it behind “age”… but as a board member, you can’t be happy with it and the bleeding lost of talent. Makes sense to make the change.

Don't forget Vision Pro.

The stock is up yes but it's been miss after miss recently

 

[Tim Jobs the 2nd]

People change jobs all the time. Apple is not immune to this.

 

[johnnytravels]

Honestly it's starting to show and not in a good way. We need some of the brutal Apple design ethos, stubbornness and ruthless attention to detail back from Jobs mind. We need a bit more form over function again, it's what made Apple unique.

We don’t need any more “either or” when it comes to form and function... we need good reasons for making something thinner or thicker, wider or smaller (good reasons other than “diversification of portfolio” from a sales perspective) for lacking features or added features, we need attention to detail, and we need bug-free software... none of this is going to happen under Cook

 

[RobDacoder]

Apple's playbook left by Steve Jobs ran out. All they have been doing since iPhone 12 onwards is how to cheapen the iPhone and increase the profit. It's the sole reason there has been no difference between 12 - 16 series.

iPhone 17 was just copying other designs and rearrange components. Innovative ideas were shot by financial departments. The reason all the designers left, cause there was no design work just 'how-to lower cost work'.

iPhone 17 Pro series is a flop in terms of design and engineering. Even basic RFI shielding was forgotten, which causes all the 17 Pro models make an static noise sound when charging. Which can be heard if you record videos while being plugged in a powerbank.

Apple is going down and it is imploding, while shareholders are blindfolded by "great sales of 17 Pro models".

Marketing team is shutting down the static noise headlines by contacting all social media platform/influencers and telling them not to report further.

All people who have worked with Jobs are leaving or retiring. This company if not led properly will face the same future like when Steve Jobs was ousted from his own company. Even titans fall.

"No difference between 12 - 16 series" - that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[Happy_John]

I have to agree, MacBooks became much better since he left, although I do love my MacBook 12" which I still use for light work. My MacBook Pro is honestly the best laptop I have ever had.

They became far more reliable, which was something that was sorely needed. The final era of Ives-designed macbooks broke, overheated or glitched far too often, and this was mostly to do with the result of Ives’ visual design and form factor requirements. They looked great visually, but just didn’t work very well.

 

[Onelifenofear]

probably more than double the salary and then bonuses ...

Well probably founder options... that's how you get Jobs $$$$

 

[UliBaer]

And go where? Swim to the shore?

Whatever is nearest, the shore or another ship!
BTW: Rats can swim very well...

 

[Taq'aix]

Good riddance. He couldn't add a second camera? Any idiot could tell you a "premium" phone with only one camera won't sell.

Edit: for the people down grading this comment, you really don't know what you're talking about. The Air Bombed. I warned about this during the rumor cycle. And mark my words, if the Fold has the same stupid camera limitations, it's not going to sell well either.

Well, I suppose Apple has found their heir apparent. Congratulations! It must be fascinating to see the world with such unique clarity that eludes everyone else.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Don't forget Vision Pro.

The stock is up yes but it's been miss after miss recently

What about Vision Pro? It's the Best AR/VR headset out there, by far. It exist as a development tool and pro use device at the moment.

Yes it's too expensive but it's a step to Proper AR glasses, which is what the end game really is... which is why they are not pitching the headset as VR. It's all about the in-reality use.

Proper Fully integrated AR glasses with full FOV, tracked 3d objects will be the next iPhone. Meta and others are releasing stuff now.. but it's not remotely AR. It's a flat screen in space. Magic leap are the closest bu they just burnt money and failed to deliver a full product.

It's benign the pipeline for years.
iPhone with 6DOF
iPhone Depth camera / IR
AR in phone
Vision Pro 1/2
Vision air or whatever
Apple Glasses

 

[Happy_John]

What about Vision Pro? It's the Best AR/VR headset out there, by far. It exist as a development tool and pro use device at the moment.

Yes it's too expensive but it's a step to Proper AR glasses, which is what the end game really is... which is why they are not pitching the headset as VR. It's all about the in-reality use.

Proper Fully integrated AR glasses with full FOV, tracked 3d objects will be the next iPhone. Meta and others are releasing stuff now.. but it's not remotely AR. It's a flat screen in space. Magic leap are the closest bu they just burnt money and failed to deliver a full product.

It's benign the pipeline for years.
iPhone with 6DOF
iPhone Depth camera / IR
AR in phone
Vision Pro 1/2
Vision air or whatever
Apple Glasses

This is what is both bemusing and infuruating.

Armchair experts complain that Apple are no longer innovative.

Apple releases a completely new product line. The same armchair experts complain.

The armchair experts hate both the old and the new. Criticising everything has the same value as criticising nothing - no value at all. It’s simply „culty” behaviour.

How do you innovate without accepting that the first iterations will be far from ideal?

People seem to forget what the original iPhone was actually like.

 

[Pezimak]

AI is what the internet was 30 years ago and we are at the very beginning.

So, does a young designer want to develop boring things that have been around for 20 years (smartphones) or something truly new? With his work at Apple and the development of a completely new smartphone, I think he has enough references to get into pretty much anywhere.

Yes, but the internet has brought both good AND bad things, I think it makes people more sceptical of this Ai boom.

 

[dannys1]

While you could very well be correct that most users will never touch a single use HDMI port, I expect that most users would also not use more than three USB-C ports at a time. It is impossible to please everyone, which is why Apple is stuck having to target as “most” as possible.

You are correct about that of course - i'd just like the option to be able to use two ports in one side at once (i'm think about situations where everything is on that one side)

Ironically i'm asking for Apple to be more ruthless and like traditional Apple, but it would be kind of nice to have an option to order with one of the two options - which would be the least Apple thing ever, they've NEVER done that - and of course because of tooling costs they never would anyway.

 

[Happy_John]

Yes, but the internet has brought both good AND bad things, I think it makes people more sceptical of this Ai boom.

The bubble is a financial bubble. It’s not that the concept of AI is a complete and utter scam, but currently it is a case of edging towards a decade of massive amounts of investment going in, a large proportion of which is being burned up in daily running costs, not infrastructure, and without any path towards a point of generating appropriate revenue or profitability.

The current iteration of large model AI costs far more just to keep running that it can ever make.

And the market won’t bear the subscription charge needed from end-users in order to make AI as a service sustainable. Very few people will indivually pay OpenAI 500$ - 1000$+ a month to use ChatGPT. And even if big companies are the main buyers, those companies will pass the charge onto their customers and clients. The money to keep it running has to come from somewhere.

The reason these large AI models are being sold as „essential” is that they are not profitable. And why make life harder by increasing the cost of living just to fund something that is not essential?

 

[loby]

I have to agree, MacBooks became much better since he left, although I do love my MacBook 12" which I still use for light work. My MacBook Pro is honestly the best laptop I have ever had.

Agree with everything said, but..MacBook Pro is better due to no more Intel and the M-Series Apple Silicone. I personally liked my 15" MacBook Pro (thin) 2018 and "Yes" with the butterfly keyboard. If that had a M1 in it....

Again...just my opinion so don't throw tomatoes at me.