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NASA uses their own operating systems....
Not sure why uNext brought NASA into discussions... but here's an interesting article from FastCompany that discusses the protocols and testing that goes into NASA software that meets stringent SEI Level 5 designation. They definitely do not use Microsoft products.... :)

This software never crashes. It never needs to be re-booted. This software is bug-free. It is perfect, as perfect as human beings have achieved. Consider these stats : the last three versions of the program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one error each. The last 11 versions of this software had a total of 17 errors. Commercial programs of equivalent complexity would have 5,000 errors.

This software is the work of 260 women and men based in an anonymous office building across the street from the Johnson Space Center in Clear Lake, Texas, southeast of Houston. They work for the "on-board shuttle group," a branch of Lockheed Martin Corps space mission systems division, and their prowess is world renowned.

The group writes software this good because that's how good it has to be. Every time it fires up the shuttle, their software is controlling a $4 billion piece of equipment, the lives of a half-dozen astronauts, and the dreams of the nation. Even the smallest error in space can have enormous consequences
 
You're forgetting that Microsoft just released Vista in a blaze of publicity showing how they'd innovated all those new features. Most people out there will believe that publicity unless Apple hammer the point home that OSX had them first.

I don't want to be having that argument with people again as to why Microsoft didn't come up with "that feature" when Windows users start slagging off my Mac. I'm tired of that conversation. With a couple of months of careful marketing now, Apple can ensure I don't have to.


It's so frustrating at CompUSA to see people ooing and aweing at Vista features while standing 15 feet from the Mac section.
 
This sort of behaviour disappoints me and does nothing to help the perceived smugness of mac users. I was detered from the Mac by what I considered their superiority complex and it was only when I eventually tried the product that I changed my mind.

This argument is beyond flawed. More times than not, especially before the x86 transition, you could always find the PC crowd bashing Macs way more than any Mac user could bash Windows. Even my boss still thinks there is no software from Macs.

So, going by your own argument, you must have been using ONLY Linux/UNIX before making the Mac switch because PC/Windows users were (and some still are) bullies.

When you're #1, which unfortunately Windows still is, you have to defend your title. So far, Vista isn't doing a very good job.
 
Comparing to other markets or other companies' campaigns does not work well.

Remember the reason that MOST people stay with Windows: "just because."

They do it because they did it last time, or because most people they know did it, or because they think it's "just what you do." They are NOT tech savvy enough to be basing their choices on the REAL reasons for and against Windows.

It is ignorance.

It doesn't always matter what Apple SAYS Macs can do--MANY people will be VERY certain there is some vague reason why ONLY WINDOWS is worth considering.

They know people say Macs are easier, and do this and that. But they also "know" that there is some reason only Windows is acceptable. They don't even have to know what that reason is. (Some have vague ideas about Macs costing more for the same specs and bundle--though they don't actually check for themselves.)

THIS audience, NOT the tech-savvy ones (who are a smaller group and often already know what they like) is the group that marketing is being directed towards.

In other words, not toward us! People who are tech-savvy enough to join an OS-specific forum are not the masses that Apple is aiming TV ads and employee T-shirts at.

For THOSE people, saying that Macs do home movies (or whatever) easier and better is fine, but only if you can get them interested enough to sit down in an Apple store (or online) and really learn more. Which many people will not take the time to do. MANY people will see Apple talk about iLife and just think, "well, Vista does movies better too. I betcha."

And when non-techie Windows users think about "better," they are ASSUMING that computers cause problems and take a fight and don't understand how humans think and create. They are not thinking "better" like Apple thinks--unless they have sat down and spent time with Macs. They experience all the problems of Windows but don't they do not see any alternative! They assume that Macs share the same problems!

And they certainly assume that Vista is better in all ways than XP, which was already "better than Macs" for reasons they don't know, but are certain exist.

So, considering these non-tech-savvy masses, breaking the assumption that "Windows is all you should think about" is vital.

Apple can talk about Mac pluses until it is blue in the face, but there MUST, ALSO be a component where they point out the things that are wrong with Windows.

And in the case of Vista, Apple can do so before people buy it. People already know what's wrong with XP, but not what's wrong with Vista. Apple would be very stupid not to educate them on this.

And yes, they must do it in the right way. So far, they have done it with humor, which I think is a good approach. But I'm not the ones the ads are meant for :)

As for the marketing rule that small companies should never challenge big ones... that's backwards. The rule is that big companies' marketing should never mention smaller competitors--because it gives those smaller companies name recognition and legitimizes them.

Thus, Windows ads should NEVER attack Mac OS X.

But Mac ads SHOULD attack Windows. Point out the flaws and not be ashamed of it. Be confident. And, hopefully, do so with humor rather than "petty name-calling." Luckily, Apple seems to grasp that pretty well.

And those who think all attacks on Windows equal attacks on Windows users are, again, not likely to be the masses Apple is aiming these ads at. Most people don't have egos bound up with OSes. They buy Windows "just because."
 
First off, Vista is NOT that difficult to install. I had NO problems whatsoever and I love it. Second, this marketing strategy only shows Apple's fear of Microsoft. Personally, I think that it is a bad idea to really beat this marketing idea to the ground. Apple Inc. is doing just fine, there is no need to push it. I respect Apple and enjoy the wide variety of products they have to offer. Present your products as you always did and you will continue to have a steady flow of confident customers. I do agree that this marketing strategy does seem as if Apple is FULL OF ITSELF. :(

What does Apple have to fear from Microsoft. Microsoft and Vista is a whole mess up there in Redmond and nobody is excited about it. Apple is laughing all the way to the bank with how well everything is going. If anyone is scared it is the PC companies and Microsoft. Microsoft will never be that scared cause they know they are so embedded in the world and will never go away. They do realize that Vista is a mess and no matter what they do they same problems will exist from OS release to the next.

Why push it? I want them to push it. I am a shareholder and I want to make money. This ad campaign IS working and Apple's sales are increasing because of it. If Apple were to take your advice then there would be no commercials on TV and people wouldn't even think of a Mac as their next purchase.

jon
 
You know Mac Mini's are only $600, right? They're not the fastest machines of course, but neither is the $600 Dell.

Yeah, and should you get an Apple screen to go with it as well? That would certainly keep you within your budget.

You can get both desktop w/screen and laptops for 600-700 at dell. Albeit crappy by my standards, they work more than fine if you plan to surf the net, send e-mails and edit word documents and perhaps manage your mp3 player.

Apple can't beat Dell on hardware prices simply because that's what they're best at, but it would be nice if you could buy cheap hardware from dell, and install OSX on it. Reach the masses...
 
This is great! I could care less what PC users or anyone else for that matter thinks of 'mac users'. The less PC idiots that switch to mac because they think their ADS! are smug, smurky, or whatever other talking points they come up with, the better IMO. (BTW I use both a PC and Mac)
 
Just for fun:

Look, Steve, eventually my system will be on all your computers...
Thats what it boils down to as long as apple keeps crippling systems for the sake of another Mac. Its not like PC users must run osx but Mac hardware must run windblows. Plus if I recall OSX had all kinds of issues when it was first released so why shouldnt Vista. All this is childish kid games.
 
Can you please be more specific?


Wether you like it or not what apple is today is thanks to them giving on microsoft and supporting it on both the iPod and their computers.

You did not see market share gains before they where mac only.

Truth is truth and please eloborate on why you think i am on drugs.

I don't think he was arguing against your basic point, uNext; I believe he was referring to your competence in expressing yourself in writing, which he was comparing to someone under the influence of a psychotropic drug. I think it was a somewhat rude and smarmy way to point out deficiencies in your spelling, grammar, punctuation and syntax.
 
this childish stuff is getting old

its fine to flaunt features and such..that's advertising..but a direct attack on a competitor is in bad taste
 
Hmmm.... PC Idiots.... :rolleyes:

Oh that's right, all I can do e-mail and the odd Word document...

Now if only I could remember where I put my keys...


Yeah, it's getting old.

Can't we all just get along?
 
Thus resurface the snarky jabs that made me stay away from the Macintosh for over a decaded.

It's pretty silly to stay away from a superior product because you don't like their advertising. :rolleyes:

That said, I'd rather see Apple promoting OS X than bashing Vista.
 
They're operating on me with VISTA?! No wonder the surgery mortality rate is so high.

NASA uses their own operating systems....

The Government needs a couple cuts in spending anyway. :)

Nasa use their own OS?

You have to be kidding me-do you honestly believe what you say?
 
Yeah, and should you get an Apple screen to go with it as well? That would certainly keep you within your budget.

You can get both desktop w/screen and laptops for 600-700 at dell. Albeit crappy by my standards, they work more than fine if you plan to surf the net, send e-mails and edit word documents and perhaps manage your mp3 player.

Apple can't beat Dell on hardware prices simply because that's what they're best at, but it would be nice if you could buy cheap hardware from dell, and install OSX on it. Reach the masses...

OSX deserves better than the cheap $600 Dells you and your friends apparently buy. OSX runs well because it is made for certain hardware that is in a closed system, similar to why iTunes-iPod works. OSX WILL NEVER BE RELEASED FOR GENERIC PC's. EVER. GET OVER IT.

Apple's computers aren't more expensive, they just don't sell pieces of crap.

If you want a piece of crap, just extend your hand between your legs about an hour after dinner, or right after you wake up, whichever is your preference.
 
All I can say is Apple better be prepared to back up their words.Insult me all you want but Windows Aero "looks" a LOT nicer than Aqua.There are a lot of consumers that buy based on what it "looks" like.
If Apple wants to talk this talk they better be coming out with Leopard REAL SOON.

I voted negative because negative campaigns suck.
 
Thats what it boils down to as long as apple keeps crippling systems for the sake of another Mac. Its not like PC users must run osx but Mac hardware must run windblows. Plus if I recall OSX had all kinds of issues when it was first released so why shouldnt Vista. All this is childish kid games.

It's childish kid games to have ego tied to OS... and mentioning problems OS X had in 2000 might fall into that category, since it's irrelevant to choosing a computer today.

It's NOT childish kid games for a computer company to try to sell a BETTER product, and break through the ignorance barrier of the many people who don't know it. Apple's not selling OS X from 2000 against Vista, they are selling OS X Tiger (and then Leopard) against Vista.

"Why shouldn't vista" is only an excuse in kid games :) Not when you're in the real world forced to buy a new PC and have a chance to choose between a Vista box and a Mac.

Admitting that Vista has flaws may "hurt some feelings"--but it won't hurt the Mac platform--it will help. Those people who are offended by admitting that Vista has problems weren't rushing to buy a Mac anyway.

Some seem to think that advertising should never point out flaws in a competitor. They must not watch a lot of ads if they actually believe that rule :) Pointing out flaws in a competitor does not harm your sales if you do it right. It's done right all the time.
 
its fine to flaunt features and such..that's advertising..but a direct attack on a competitor is in bad taste
To some extent, I think the approach is intended to draw attention to the fact that OS X is a competitor. I think a lot of people view Macs as a different beast entirely, and not as something they could use instead of what they have...
 
To some extent, I think the approach is intended to draw attention to the fact that OS X is a competitor. I think a lot of people view Macs as a different beast entirely, and not as something they could use instead of what they have...

Concisely put. If you would like to see the same thing expressed in 84 paragraphs, scroll back to my post :eek:

Masses of people aren't consciously thinking Windows is perfect, nor better than Mac... they're thinking that nothing but Windows is worth thinking about.

But now Windows... aka XP... is gone. SOMETHING new is coming, for everyone--be it Vista or a Mac. Right now is a very rare chance to make people stop and think, even if that means making some small but vocal group of Microsoft fans uncomfortable.
 
BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD Marketing idea!

Never directly confront a competitor that is so much larger than you head-on. All Apple has to do is keep releasing hardware and OS's that are strong enough to speak for themselves.

Lets anger MS some more, maybe they will pull the plug on Office then, as they did with IE and Windoze Media. (which although I dont really like any of those products, they are necessary evils. If MS ever dropped Office, alot of us would be forced to become "switch-back-ers"

You know apple has a office suite developed for when/if this happens.
 
I am AMAZED how many of you are personalizing this. I think it's about time Apple took on Windows head on, and their TV ads are HILARIOUS and right on the money without being smug. They deliver a message with humor, which is the most memorable type of message.

Apple SHOULD be knocking Vista, it's a great opportunity for Apple. Vista is a major upgrade that will force people to spend a lot of money on the OS and hardware. Apple is obviously seizing this opportunity to convince people who may be spending a significant amount of money on a Vista upgrade to get a Mac instead, "and here's why."

This has nothing to do with smugness, it has to do with Apple capitalizing on an opportunity that is perfectly in line with its Get a Mac ad campaign. If you are a Windows user and you walk into an Apple store, nobody is going to say "you suck because you use Windoze". What this Windows user will see, however, are subtle messages all around him illustrating the shortcomings of Vista compared to MacOS X. God forbid this Windows user think to himself, "yah, I hadn't thought of that, good point." THAT is the purpose of this campaign, not to insult someone's choice of OS. If you take it that way, then you are a pretty insecure person with bigger problems.

I think some of you people are living inside an ideal computing bubble. The majority of people out there have a Windows PC but don't necessarily understand why their programs won't work on a Mac -- aren't they all the same, after all? Apple needs to educate people, but how do you educate someone without direct comparisons to what they are familiar with? Saying that you are great at lifestyle stuff, digital media, multitasking, speed, etc., is all well and good -- it's all stuff that you can find on Windows too -- but telling someone that they don't have to face an annoying security prompt every 5 minutes with a Mac is an illuminating moment that impacts someone day-to-day computing experience. Telling them that they don't need all new hardware whenever Apple releases an OS is also illuminating and on point. How do you say these things without saying "you don't have to put up with this, there's a better alternative out there"?

Has anyone actually seen these store displays and t-shirts? How does anyone know whether the are smug or insulting? Do you think Apple would insult the person who is about to plunk down a month's salary on a computer? Apple has experienced modest growth of the Mac market, but who can blame them for wanting to step things up a notch to move more Macs off the shelves?

Microsoft has gotten a tremendous amount of press on Vista, and has spent a lot of money on marketing. This is a great way for Apple to take free advantage of its competitor's marketing dollars and the press coverage it has bought. I think we should call this the "Vista halo effect".
 
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