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For those of you who are switching to a completely Vegetarian or Vegan diet:

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For our sake.

No need. Vegetarian farts smell like rainbows ! :)
Who knew this was a forum and not a peer-reviewed scientific article? :rolleyes:

My apologies for contributing to this unhelpful thread. :(

Sorry. Didn't want to offend anyone. I realize that anecdotes have their place and can be useful. I was specifically thinking of people's posts that say "Well, my friend always gets sick and he's a vegetarian", thereby implying that to be vegetarian is unhealthy. I fail to see how such "information" is helpful or relevant.
 
The anecdotal evidence that has been given in this thread, in my opinion, is unhelpful.

snip


A well-balanced normal diet, as recommended by a majority of the reputable medical and dietary community, actually is a near-vegetarian one. One of the steps to a "well-balanced" diet is to severely reduce the amount of meat that is commonly eaten as part of a Western-style diet. The "normal", as in average, omnivore diet is nowhere near a healthy one and often leads to malnutrition. Overconsumption so prevalent in western countries nowadays, ironically enough, is often accompanied by deficiency of vitamins and minerals. While it is true that a vegetarian diet in modern times demands planning, the same holds true for an omnivore diet. Both vegan as well as non-vegetarian diets are risky if poorly planned.

Maybe we should be more interested in looking for common ground. I'd think that most doctors or dietitians who don't flat-out recommend vegetarian diets, would not dispute the positive health impact of a well-planned diet that is mainly made up of a wide variety of unprocessed vegetables, legumes, grain products, beans, lentils, pulses, fruits , nuts and seeds with a small amount of dairy, some fish and otherwise as little additional meat as possible. I'd venture a guess that this is something we could all agree on. Replacing the remaining animal products takes some planning and research to make sure that nutritional components that are easy to get from animal products can be gotten from non-animal sources in sufficient amounts (i.e. mainly calcium, Vitamin B12 and D (possibly zinc, iodine, essential fatty acids…). For example, Omega-3 fatty acids can be gotten from ground flax seeds, iodine is often added to salt, vitamin D can be provided by adequate exposure to sunshine every day, soy milk and meat-substitutes are often fortified with B12&calcium etc.... It's not hard to do, but you do have to do the research and act on it. Such a vegan diet will provide all necessary nutrients.

Of course, regardless of the diet, other unhealthy factors to consider are a sedentary lifestyle, stress, sleep deprivation, emotional issues etc.


I would recommend this very comprehensive book that is chock-full of relevant theoretical nutritional information as well as helpful practical tips.

"Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis, R.D. & Vesanto Melina, M.S., R.D.


Yes, eating steak and porkshops every other day is bad - everyone knows that. But if you look at the Italian diet you'll see its far from vegetarian and they have one of the longest lifespans.
Obviously Japan is the highest thanks to the fish based diet.
 
Yes, eating steak and porkshops every other day is bad - everyone knows that.

Everyone doesn't act like they do

But if you look at the Italian diet you'll see its far from vegetarian and they have one of the longest lifespans.
So what? They also certainly don't consume the highest amount of meat per capita worldwide. The problem with epidemiological studies is that it's seldom clear what's causing what. where there is merely correlation or actual causation and how relevant other factors you're not even looking at are
Obviously Japan is the highest thanks to the fish based diet.
How do you know that's due to their fish consumption ? For example, they also eat a lot less red meat and a lot more soy products and less calories overall
 
Everyone doesn't act like they do


So what? They also certainly don't consume the highest amount of meat per capita worldwide. The problem with epidemiological studies is that it's seldom clear what's causing what. where there is merely correlation or actual causation and how relevant other factors you're not even looking at are

How do you know that's due to their fish consumption ? For example, they also eat a lot less red meat and a lot more soy products and less calories overall

Everyone knows its bad for them but they do it anyway. Just like smoking. They knows its bad but start anyway.

True.

Fish is good for you. Its like eating normal meat without the fat. Its also brain food. Maybe that's why they're so damn smart. :D
 
Everyone knows its bad for them but they do it anyway. Just like smoking. They knows its bad but start anyway.

True.

Fish is good for you. Its like eating normal meat without the fat. Its also brain food. Maybe that's why they're so damn smart. :D

Maybe...

On purely nutritional grounds*, it certainly seems that fish is a lot better than normal meat and I'm not aware of any studies showing that it's harmful. On the other hand, fish is often promoted specifically for its omega-3 content which flax seeds can provide just as well. All other nutrients included in fish can be provided by plants as well. You'd therefore still have to name a reason why a vegetarian should feel compelled to eat fish. Mercury contamination is another issue to be aware of.

* i.e. not taking into account possible ethical concerns e.g. in light of the overfishing of the seas,factory farmed fish etc.
 
Maybe...

On purely nutritional grounds*, it certainly seems that fish is a lot better than normal meat and I'm not aware of any studies showing that it's harmful. On the other hand, fish is often promoted specifically for its omega-3 content which flax seeds can provide just as well. All other nutrients included in fish can be provided by plants as well. You'd therefore still have to name a reason why a vegetarian should feel compelled to eat fish. Mercury contamination is another issue to be aware of.

* i.e. not taking into account possible ethical concerns e.g. in light of the overfishing of the seas,factory farmed fish etc.

How about "because it tastes good?"
Mercury contamination can be a problem, but this country has standards and inspections. I wouldn't plan my next fishing trip to China or India anytime soon.
 
How about "because it tastes good?"
Mercury contamination can be a problem, but this country has standards and inspections. I wouldn't plan my next fishing trip to China or India anytime soon.

Fish tend to cross borders, so there are suggested limits to consumption for ocean fish (check government websites) due to mercury. Mercury is also a common by-product in north america, so .... there are suggested limits to consumption for local fresh water fish. Check your local government website....

Ironically, all those compact flourescent lightbulbs we are being sold to protect the environment have mercury in them... so don't throw them in the regular trash as the mercury in discarded CFL's may then find itself in your fish.
 
It's also not enough to just eat protein plants, you need to think about "complete proteins". Basically, you may need to combine two or more different types of food at the same meal. I believe Chickpeas and Rice is one example of foods you need to combine to actually get the benefits of Chickpeas. Anyway, it's a challenge.


That's actually a myth and would indeed result in quite a challenge. The amino acids are pooled in the body so that if you provide a few different plant proteins over the course of the day, this will suffice to make all amino acids available in sufficient quantity to your body. It is not necessary to arrive at a complete mix of proteins for every one of your meals.
 
Fish tend to cross borders, so there are suggested limits to consumption for ocean fish (check government websites) due to mercury. Mercury is also a common by-product in north america, so .... there are suggested limits to consumption for local fresh water fish. Check your local government website....

Ironically, all those compact flourescent lightbulbs we are being sold to protect the environment have mercury in them... so don't throw them in the regular trash as the mercury in discarded CFL's may then find itself in your fish.

Mad hatter! Mad Hatter! w00t!
 
fish is often promoted specifically for its omega-3 content which flax seeds can provide just as well

I thought recent studies show that omega-3 from flax seeds was no longer considered to have the same benefits as omega-3 from fish/algae.
 
I thought recent studies show that omega-3 from flax seeds was no longer considered to have the same benefits as omega-3 from fish/algae.

that's news to me...Would appreciate a source though, or some more information :)
 
Proud Omnivore here, I eat fruit salad and cereal for breakfast. Some sushi/japanese lunchbox for lunch and whatever they serve at the hostel for dinner. 2 protien/Animoa Acid shakes a day and a creatine suppliment. I feel great. :D

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Be vegan if you want. I know plenty of fit and healthy people that are on all kinds of 'weird' diets.
 
Fish tend to cross borders, so there are suggested limits to consumption for ocean fish (check government websites) due to mercury. Mercury is also a common by-product in north america, so .... there are suggested limits to consumption for local fresh water fish. Check your local government website....

Ironically, all those compact flourescent lightbulbs we are being sold to protect the environment have mercury in them... so don't throw them in the regular trash as the mercury in discarded CFL's may then find itself in your fish.

Places like New Zealand have banned or are banning Fluro bulbs with Mercury.
 
Proud Omnivore here, I eat fruit salad and cereal for breakfast. Some sushi/japanese lunchbox for lunch and whatever they serve at the hostel for dinner. 2 protien/Animoa Acid shakes a day and a creatine suppliment. I feel great. :D

---

Be vegan if you want. I know plenty of fit and healthy people that are on all kinds of 'weird' diets.

What kind of climate do Omnis grow in?
 
That moron recommends low carb diets to people, I wouldn't trust him if I were you but do what you want.

So? I've heard perfectly intelligent doctors recommend stuff which I think is perfectly stupid and destructable to the human body. Its up to them to advise on what they think is right. When I had a staphlycoccus infection, I was told by several surgeons to remove the infected sinuses. But I chose to get my granfather to make me a silver and myrrh tonic instead. I'm not sure if it worked or not, but I don't have an infection anymore. They probably thought I was moronic.

The American Kidney Association and American Cancer Society would strongly disagree with any of his recommendations.

One of the top natural therapists in New Zealand disagrees with those Associations. Because ultimately, we have no clue what actually causes cancer to happen. Otherwise we would have a better cure than radiating the mutated cells.

More articles on Fish vs Flaxseed.

http://www.womens-health-questions.com/omega-3.html
http://www.mind1st.co.uk/Flax_Seed_Oil_v_Fish_Oil.asp
http://www.supplementquality.com/efficacy/fishoil_flaxoil.html
http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter5_1.html
 
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One of the top natural therapists in New Zealand disagrees with those Associations. Because ultimately, we have no clue what actually causes cancer to happen. Otherwise we would have a better cure than radiating the mutated cells.

i'll go with the Associations, thank you very much.
the second part is a total non-sequitur. incorrect too: we do know a lot about cancer and we do have continuously improving treatments.
 

Thanks, interesting. I hadn't really looked into the Omega-3 issue in too much detail. There's actually a chapter on it in the very book I recommended but I hadn't gotten to it yet. I certainly have to take back and apologize for my formerly made statement that "flax seeds can provide Omega-3s just as well as fish", since flax seeds in fact only contain LNA which then has to be converted into EPA and DHA by the body in a somewhat inefficient and easily disturbed process, whereas fish/algae contain EPA and DHA directly. I'll have to research this a bit more and see whether this matters.
 
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