Any vegetarians or vegans out there? Need your support.

[anjinha]

I love when people post absolute FUD about a topic like it is fact.

You don't need supplements to be vegan.

You don't need to watch what you eat anymore than anyone else does being vegan.

Sorry we can agree to disagree, but on average it is a much healthier choice for most people even with the fake meat stuff.

You don't need to make "sure you get enough protein".

Just try to eat balanced meals with a little bit of protein, a little bit of carbs and a little bit of greens and you will be just fine.

At the end of the day it is a personal choice, a positive, ethical one that will change your life for the better.

/End of thread

You do need to watch what you eat if you become vegan or vegetarian, at least at first. Most people don't know where to get protein from sources other than meat. Most people don't know where to get iron from sources other than meat (and specially women since they need more iron than men).

The majority of people eat too much meat and not enough vegetables. Are you seriously saying that they should just remove meat from their diets and they'll be fine? No, they need to learn where to get some nutrients from other sources. What about vitamin B12 if you're a vegan? Vitamin B12 doesn't exist naturally on non-animal sources so you do need to learn where to get that.

Look, I'm all for vegetarian/vegan diets and I know first hand how healthy and satisfying they can be. But you do need to know what you're doing because it is a drastic diet change, specially for people that don't eat a lot of vegetables.

 

[Queso]

Vitamin B12 doesn't exist naturally on non-animal sources so you do need to learn where to get that.

Again. 100% natural, a by-product of making beer.

 

[anjinha]

Again. 100% natural, a by-product of making beer.

We don't have marmite here and it's not available everywhere. I know you can get B12 from nutritional yeast but it is something I have to add to my food on purpose.

 

[Queso]

We don't have marmite here

Really? We can get it in Barcelona these days, so it can't be that far away.

 

[anjinha]

Really? We can get it in Barcelona these days, so it can't be that far away.

There's a lot of stuff we can't get here.

Still, marmite contains B12 in the same way that soy milk can have B12. But animal products are the only natural sources of it and you do need to know where to get it from if you're a vegan. That was my point, I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear.

 

[R.Perez]

You do need to watch what you eat if you become vegan or vegetarian, at least at first. Most people don't know where to get protein from sources other than meat. Most people don't know where to get iron from sources other than meat (and specially women since they need more iron than men).

The majority of people eat too much meat and not enough vegetables. Are you seriously saying that they should just remove meat from their diets and they'll be fine? No, they need to learn where to get some nutrients from other sources. What about vitamin B12 if you're a vegan? Vitamin B12 doesn't exist naturally on non-animal sources so you do need to learn where to get that.

Look, I'm all for vegetarian/vegan diets and I know first hand how healthy and satisfying they can be. But you do need to know what you're doing because it is a drastic diet change, specially for people that don't eat a lot of vegetables.

Excuse me, no.

I have been vegan since age 12 and I have never taken a supplement in my life (aside from protein powder when I workout)

B12 is fortified in everything, soymilk, ricemilk, almond milk etc..

You do not need to take an extra supplement.

I eat normal food like everyone else.

Breakfast I had Peanut Butter Crunch with Soymilk

Dinner last night was Gnocchi with garlic sauce and vege burger crumble with a side of peas and green salad

Lunch yesterday was a grilled tofu sandwich on whole wheat bread with greens,tomato, onion mustard and Vegenaise.

In between meals I had some carrots and hummus and sundried tomato basil wheat thins.

 

[anjinha]

Excuse me, no.

I have been vegan since age 12 and I have never taken a supplement in my life.

B12 is fortified in everything, soymilk, ricemilk, almond milk etc..

You do not need to take an extra supplement.

I didn't say you need to take a supplement, I said you need to know where to get it from. Most people have never had ricemilk or almond milk and not all of them have B12, they need to be fortified with it which not all of them are. Same with soy milk.

 

[R.Perez]

I didn't say you need to take a supplement, I said you need to know where to get it from. Most people have never had ricemilk or almond milk and not all of them have B12, they need to be fortified with it which not all of them are. Same with soy milk.

Most are fortified, any of the popular brands sold in the states most certainly are.

I have not met a singe person who went vegan that did not have some sort of milk replacement on a semi regular basis. Most people do like to eat cereal occasionally

 

[anjinha]

Most are fortified, any of the popular brands sold in the states most certainly are.

I have not met a singe person who went vegan that did not have some sort of milk replacement on a semi regular basis. Most people do like to eat cereal occasionally

Not everyone has access to the same things that you do and not everyone has cereal or milk on a regular basis.

I'm nor arguing against a vegan or vegetarian diet, on the contrary. I'm just saying that for a lot of people it would be a big change and it would mean a lot of learning, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. It seems easy to you because you've doing for a long time.

 

[Iscariot]

I didn't say you need to take a supplement, I said you need to know where to get it from. Most people have never had ricemilk or almond milk and not all of them have B12, they need to be fortified with it which not all of them are. Same with soy milk.

B12 deficiency is common in adults at a rate of ~39+%. It's true that vegans and vegetarians do suffer a higher rate of deficiency (although it should be noted that the last definitive study is pretty outdated, but the deficiency rate was truly staggering) and that these populations are at a higher risk of b12 deficient related pathologies like bone fractures.

Vitamin deficiency is pretty common across most populations in North America, however. Most studies conclude that vegetarians and vegans do in fact need to engage in more planning to ensure proper nutrient value, but most studies also conclude that a significant proportion of the general population needs to engage in a similiar amount of planning. The only veg*n diet I've studied that needs a truly high level of consideration is raw veganism, which has the highest correlation with deficiencies and low body mass.

 

[anjinha]

B12 deficiency is common in adults at a rate of ~39+%. It's true that vegans and vegetarians do suffer a higher rate of deficiency (although it should be noted that the last definitive study is pretty outdated, but the deficiency rate was truly staggering) and that these populations are at a higher risk of b12 deficient related pathologies like bone fractures.

Vitamin deficiency is pretty common across most populations in North America, however. Most studies conclude that vegetarians and vegans do in fact need to engage in more planning to ensure proper nutrient value, but most studies also conclude that a significant proportion of the general population needs to engage in a similiar amount of planning. The only veg*n diet I've studied that needs a truly high level of consideration is raw veganism, which has the highest correlation with deficiencies and low body mass.

Well, I haven't seen specific studies but it does make sense that as you limit your diet more that there are certain nutrients that get harder to get, specially without proper planning.

 

[snberk103]

Again. 100% natural, a by-product of making beer.

I didn't know that. How much beer do I have to drink to get enough B12? Or does all the B12 go down the drain (except in Marmite nations)? I could learn to like Marmite if it's really just beer. Sort of.

 

[jzuena]

While I do agree to some point (those fake meats very rarely taste anything like meat) when I tried to become vegetarian I did make some vegetarian versions of meat dishes. In my case it wasn't about trying to make them taste like meat, it was just about making a vegetarian version of a dish I liked because otherwise I couldn't eat it. So I made vegetarian lasagna, vegetarian tacos, etc. None of them were anything like the meat version but they were really good and that was the point.

That's what I'd rather do, too. Veggie lasagna is good in its own right, no need to try to make it a substitute for regular lasagna.

Also what you have to understand is that if someone has been a vegetarian/vegan for a while they might not even remember what actual meat tastes like and they're so used to the fake meat/cheese versions that they actually think they taste the same.

I'm pretty sure this is probably the case.

But I do agree that if someone wants to become vegan/vegetarian it's better to actually embrace it and get used to eating fresh veggies and legumes and all that stuff instead of just relying on fake meats.

EDIT: Also, the eggs in (most) desserts are actually really easy to replace since the eggs just act as a binding element, they don't do much for flavour so they're not the reason why vegan desserts are too sweet.

I guess they must just just like really sweet stuff and frequent vegan bakeries that cater to that taste. I felt like I was at a 4 year old's party with the super sweet cake... actually I was; one of the dinners was a birthday party for their 4 year old greyhound!

 

[anjinha]

I guess they must just just like really sweet stuff and frequent vegan bakeries that cater to that taste. I felt like I was at a 4 year old's party with the super sweet cake... actually I was; one of the dinners was a birthday party for their 4 year old greyhound!

Hehe.

I haven't tried that many vegan desserts but the ones I've tried didn't seem sweeter than the non-vegan ones, they were actually delicious. But it is possible that they sometimes try to compensate for the lack of some things by making them sweeter. Than happens with diet foods and non fat foods as well.

 

[jc0481]

WOW! So many good responses and some other interesting responses. I guess I have my work cut out for me.

I do appreciate all the responses though. I will go to the library or the bookstore find me some good books and also talk with some Vegetarians or Vegans. Although there are only two Vegans in my wife's side of the family. The rest are omnivores. Which reminds me I was with my wife's side of the family and some of them started to wonder where was the Vegans. They were at a restaurant at the time. My wife's aunt commented "yeah they'll be eating salad, salad and more salad" followed by a small chuckle.

That was very interesting information what the pre-med student said in his post when he volunteered in the ER. I also liked Jason Beck's post quite a drastic change good for you man by the way.

I do like soy milk just bought some at the grocery store two weeks ago. I posted this question because when I talk to family, read some articles and watch tv everybody is telling me to have a balanced diet with meat and eat moderately. Some family members also have told me that you don't to take it so drastic.

Take one of my idols Bruce Lee. I wish I was alive when he was. He was a vegetarian and very athletic. Goes to show you can still get muscle and still be a vegetarian. I'm starting that P90X program too.

I read somewhere that becoming a vegetarian or vegan you save an average of $4,000 a year from not buying animal based products.

I will do a trial run and see what happens. I will not go cold turkey by the way. I will do it slowly step by step.

I sure will miss my wife's cooking though. I'm on the go from time to time. Can anyone recommend a good on the go food that's healthy? The only thing I can think of is apples and bananas.

Thanks again.

 

[niuniu]

Take one of my idols Bruce Lee. I wish I was alive when he was. He was a vegetarian and very athletic.

I hate to say it, but. Bruce wasn't a vegetarian I studied JKD for years under tuition and met many of his pupils and immersed myself in his writings, he may have went through a vege phase, but he was an avid consumer of red meat noted in his training logs. His persona known to movie fans, and persona known to his inner circle are very much different.

Anyways, really good luck, like you I've been reading all the posts in the thread intently, and I'm going for a vege month (not just a week now). Will try some of the things I learned here and have a really decent shot at it. I only need to replace my chicken intake after all. But unlike one guy who thinks going vege is simple and takes no research, I very much disagree. I tried full vege before and I wasn't content, and I wasn't content because I hadn't put the work in. You don't just put 29 years of habit behind you in a single day with no forethought.

Really great thread though, the vege guys really did share a lot of grounded knowledge, cheers

 

[citizenzen]

Here's a very simple vegetarian dish. I'm the cook in the house and make about 60-70% of our dinners based on this...

• Tofu (10-12 ounces) cubed about 1/2 - 3/4"

It needs to be firm tofu. Tofu usually comes packed in water and it's very important to get as much water out as you can. I used to wrap thick slices of it in paper towels to get the water out. But for the past few years I found a locally made firm tofu that doesn't require this extra step. Just be aware that the amount of water in the tofu will play a part in determining the outcome.​

• Oil (1-2 tbsps.)

I prefer a good extra virgin olive oil.​

• Good pan or wok

I currently use a 13" Calphalon sauté pan with high sides. Woks work perfectly well too.​

Get the pan hot (but don't go overboard) add oil, then tofu. Season tofu (I prefer just a little salt, but really the sky's the limit here.) You can also add certain ingredients at this stage. You don't want to include too much as the browning of the tofu may suffer. This may include (but is not limited to)...

• Onion
• Garlic (minced)
• Shallots
• Peppers
• Ginger (minced)

Sauté until the tofu becomes crispy and brown.

This should not take very long... somewhere around 5 minutes. Make sure the burner is set to high and that the tofu isn't too wet. Don't walk away from this! Tofu can burn! You'll need to stir your tofu to evenly brown all sides... or if you're cool like me, you can flip your pan instead... like they do in the restaurants.​

Once your tofu is browned and crispy you have a couple of choices. You could eat it as is, and believe me, it will be delicious (especially over rice with a little soy sauce). But that wouldn't be a complete meal. You really need to eat your veggies. So keeping the heat on high (or near there) add some veggies to your browned tofu and continue cooking.

The secret to happiness now is knowing which veggies cook faster and which ones take more time. Here's a rough guide...

• Brussel Sprouts (5-7 minutes)
• Cauliflower (3-5 minutes)
• Broccoli (3-5 minutes)
• Cabbage (3 minutes)
• Carrots (3 minutes)
• Asparagus (2 minutes)
• Bok Choy (2 minutes)
• Mushrooms (1-2 minutes)
• Baby Bok Choy (1 minute)
• Squash (1 minute)
• Snow Peas (1 minute)
• Bean Sprouts (less than 1 minute)
• Spinach (less than 1 minute)

Don't overcook those veggies. They need to maintain a slight crunch. Be aware that the moisture of the veggies will cause your tofu to lose its crispiness. It will however maintain a chewiness quite like meat.

Serve with rice, noodles, or whatever.

By mixing you veggies according to the season and experimenting with different spices, you'll have a quick and nutritious meal that you won't get tired of.

 

[snberk103]

Citizenzen has a great recipe, and is bang on about stirfrying your veggies. Experiment seasonally and experiment with the timing. It's just practice.

We aren't vegetarian, but we eat a lot of non-meat/little-meat meals and often stirfry. My goal when stirfrying is to cook stuff as little as possible. Most veggies can be eaten raw, and so if you undercook them a little bit it's no big deal. Overcooking, however can make them mushy and they lose their texture and flavour.... so think minimum times. There are some exceptions, of course - but try each of the veggies raw and see how palatable it is. One of the exception is garlic. Very few people like raw... so cook that stuff thoroughly and it will lose all of its pungentness. Once it's roasted well, you can spread garlic on melba toast and it's a great spread.

The other trick to stirfry is to cut your ingredients into uniform small pieces. Initially it will take you 5x as long to cut the stuff up as to actually cook it.

I will just add that there is a huge middle ground between eating a lot of meat and going vegetarian. We like our steaks and roasts, but we also go several days without meat at all, and sometimes a week with just a bit of chicken. And when we do eat meat, it's often a small portion. We may just put a few pieces of left-over steak (cut into shreds) into an other-wise vegetarian meal. I believe most people who are deciding to cut out meat for health reasons are probably eating way too much meat to begin with. Cutting out 75% of your meat will give you 95% of the health benefits (if you are eating too much meat to begin with) and will be a lot easier to manage than going entirely vegetarian (Percentages are just an educated guess - I have no data to actually back them up....But I think I'm pretty close)

Once you have eliminated from your diet a most of the meat, and found alternatives that are both healthful and tasty.... you might find that you are OK with that balance, or decide to go the whole way and eliminate all meat.

Like most things in life, I'm comfortable with the middle ground.

 

[it5five]

Excuse me, no.

I have been vegan since age 12 and I have never taken a supplement in my life (aside from protein powder when I workout)

B12 is fortified in everything, soymilk, ricemilk, almond milk etc..

You do not need to take an extra supplement.

I eat normal food like everyone else.

Breakfast I had Peanut Butter Crunch with Soymilk

Dinner last night was Gnocchi with garlic sauce and vege burger crumble with a side of peas and green salad

Lunch yesterday was a grilled tofu sandwich on whole wheat bread with greens,tomato, onion mustard and Vegenaise.

In between meals I had some carrots and hummus and sundried tomato basil wheat thins.

Minus the Vegenaise, that all sounds delicious.

 

[Tower-Union]

Carrot juice is murder! Please, Eat a cow instead!

(Its safe for work, and unlikely to offend anyone)

 

[iZac]

Just to pitch in my "2 cents"

I've been Vegetarian for about 9 years, for varying reasons, one of which is that I simply don't like the taste of red meat. Deteriorated health must be a misnomer, since everyone gets sick and the amount of steak you consume surely cant have a huge effect on that. I find my diet is a lot less fatty than my fellow meat eating friends and I never ever try and "turn" people to vegetarianism. Many people I know state that I must be exhausted all the time since "I get no protein" But it's not like meat is the only source of protein in the world.

Something you'll probably want to be relaxed about is dining out. I doubt you could make sure that every place you eat, there is zero cross-contaminiation from meat preparation to vegetable preparation. So don't worry about it, if there isn't a lump of meat on your plate, you're doing the best you can.

Also people find it bizarre that I hate bacon!

 

[Iscariot]

I believe most people who are deciding to cut out meat for health reasons are probably eating way too much meat to begin with.

From a purely nutritional standpoint, it's not so much the quantity as it is the quality that's problematic. People are eating far too much of the wrong kinds of meat, or meats prepared in a manner that is unhealthy, resulting in far too many calories with little to no nutritional value. 100 grams of oven roasted lean chicken has just under 80 calories, whereas 100 grams of chicken nugget has nearly 300 calories, and both meals yield about the same amount of protein.

 

[tkermit]

The anecdotal evidence that has been given in this thread, in my opinion, is unhelpful. I would be skeptical of anecdotal evidence in general, but two reasons lead me to completely disregard any such diet-related stories here or anywhere else:

(1) Nutrition is but one factor of a great many that make up people's health

(2) The fact that someone is a vegan or vegetarian tells you very little about their actual eating behavior

You can have the same nutritional goals and results with a well balanced normal diet.

A well-balanced normal diet, as recommended by a majority of the reputable medical and dietary community, actually is a near-vegetarian one. One of the steps to a "well-balanced" diet is to severely reduce the amount of meat that is commonly eaten as part of a Western-style diet. The "normal", as in average, omnivore diet is nowhere near a healthy one and often leads to malnutrition. Overconsumption so prevalent in western countries nowadays, ironically enough, is often accompanied by deficiency of vitamins and minerals. While it is true that a vegetarian diet in modern times demands planning, the same holds true for an omnivore diet. Both vegan as well as non-vegetarian diets are risky if poorly planned.

Maybe we should be more interested in looking for common ground. I'd think that most doctors or dietitians who don't flat-out recommend vegetarian diets, would not dispute the positive health impact of a well-planned diet that is mainly made up of a wide variety of unprocessed vegetables, legumes, grain products, beans, lentils, pulses, fruits , nuts and seeds with a small amount of dairy, some fish and otherwise as little additional meat as possible. I'd venture a guess that this is something we could all agree on. Replacing the remaining animal products takes some planning and research to make sure that nutritional components that are easy to get from animal products can be gotten from non-animal sources in sufficient amounts (i.e. mainly calcium, Vitamin B12 and D (possibly zinc, iodine, essential fatty acids…). For example, Omega-3 fatty acids can be gotten from ground flax seeds, iodine is often added to salt, vitamin D can be provided by adequate exposure to sunshine every day, soy milk and meat-substitutes are often fortified with B12&calcium etc.... It's not hard to do, but you do have to do the research and act on it. Such a vegan diet will provide all necessary nutrients.

Of course, regardless of the diet, other unhealthy factors to consider are a sedentary lifestyle, stress, sleep deprivation, emotional issues etc.


I would recommend this very comprehensive book that is chock-full of relevant theoretical nutritional information as well as helpful practical tips.

"Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis, R.D. & Vesanto Melina, M.S., R.D.

 

[TechieJustin]

For those of you who are switching to a completely Vegetarian or Vegan diet:

For our sake.

 

[citizenzen]

The anecdotal evidence that has been given in this thread, in my opinion, is unhelpful.

Who knew this was a forum and not a peer-reviewed scientific article?

My apologies for contributing to this unhelpful thread.