Anyone else abandoning ship?

[SDColorado]

Simply a poor show all round. Too much is coming out half baked and ill conceived, barring the ability to turn coin. Apple's built it's monopoly and firmly taking advantage of it's position. Previous to 2016 I always generally recommended the Mac over a Windows OEM, reassuring the additional cost was worth while. Today the message is simple avoid Mac's at all costs unless your absolutely dependant on the OS as they simply no longer make sense...

Over twenty years with the Mac, highly impressed the current trends Mostly these days your just buying into Apple little else..

Q-6

Up until 2016, I wouldn't have even considered anything other than another Apple computer, but this has been a bad stretch of issues and there are some decent alternatives out there. Damn you Asus for not making the Studio S available with a 4K option.

I recently started working remotely and now that I type all day on my MBP I absolutely hate the keyboard. For infrequent work it was ok and I could wave off random issues. Not anymore. I was disappointed with the iPhone X and XR, and now that the keyboard issues have hit the breaking point I am considering other options. Never thought I'd see the day.

I like my iPhone X in general, but do have some problems with it stuttering and dropping Bluetooth earphones during playback. Doesn't seem to matter the brand or type, I have tried Airpods, bluebird, beats, sony, B&O, Bose, Sennhieser. The issue is definitely the phone and not the earphones. They all work fine with other devices.

But it seems par for the course lately. Apple delivers a great device hampered by an issue or flaw. I guess some folks have had WiFi/GPS issues with the X as well.

 

[rdubmu]

I know this is a 1800 post thread...

Microsoft’s Window’s 10 is a great alternative to MAC OS. For business uses it is even better. I would look at an X1 Carbon or Yoga. The keyboard are great and office and most apps run on it verses Linux.

 

[booksbooks]

I recently started working remotely and now that I type all day on my MBP I absolutely hate the keyboard. For infrequent work it was ok and I could wave off random issues. Not anymore. I was disappointed with the iPhone X and XR, and now that the keyboard issues have hit the breaking point I am considering other options. Never thought I'd see the day.

I'll never switch to Windows it sucks, don't care how trendy the hardware is. I can't deal with my 2017 MBP keyboard. After 1 year I give up.

I've bought two 2015 MacBook Pros and upgraded the hard drives. Those will be my daily drivers. Suck it Apple.

 

[Mendota]

In reading some of these posted articles, the comment afterward are also quite interesting. Here is an example:

Another one gives up.

 

[booksbooks]

As we speak, my new 2015 MacBook Pros (13” and 15”) are undergoing migration assistant to them from my 2017 MacBook Pro.

I found both 2015 MBPs new sealed in the box. Just installed genuine Apple 512 GB HDs in them.

I can’t believe how excited I am to revert to older Apple hardware. The keyboard is just so terrible on the 2017 MBP after 1.5 years I have just given up. I’ll still use it but serious typing will happen on the 2015 units. The Touchbar is useless as well, and makes it even harder to use because of no top row physical keys. And the trackpad is too large.

I have to say, this 13” MBP is a gem.

 

[Queen6]

In reading some of these posted articles, the comment afterward are also quite interesting. Here is an example:View attachment 830070 Another one gives up.

It seems inevitable, vast majority I know professionally have either already switched or are in the process of leaving the platform, even diehards...

Q-6

 

[Smeaton1724]

The most all rounded Apple laptops for sale today through Apple are Refurbished 15'' 2015 models and MBA 2017 models. I say that based on 8/16GB RAM in those machines, i5/i7 processors, ports, magsafe and keyboard quality.

Obviously in computing terms specs from 2015/2017 are outdated but as refurbished or second hand they offer so much value, some extra features and a history of reliability versus the current range of macbooks for sale.

 

[agaskew]

As we speak, my new 2015 MacBook Pros (13” and 15”) are undergoing migration assistant to them from my 2017 MacBook Pro.

I found both 2015 MBPs new sealed in the box. Just installed genuine Apple 512 GB HDs in them.

I can’t believe how excited I am to revert to older Apple hardware. The keyboard is just so terrible on the 2017 MBP after 1.5 years I have just given up. I’ll still use it but serious typing will happen on the 2015 units. The Touchbar is useless as well, and makes it even harder to use because of no top row physical keys. And the trackpad is too large.

I have to say, this 13” MBP is a gem.

Cool. My wife has a 2013 13" that I rescued and rebuilt (loose hinges, dirty, clogged, overheating and I found a couple of apple(!) seeds inside it). It runs fine now. Some of the older machines really were built well and can last a long time.

Such a pity...

 

[booksbooks]

Cool. My wife has a 2013 13" that I rescued and rebuilt (loose hinges, dirty, clogged, overheating and I found a couple of apple(!) seeds inside it). It runs fine now. Some of the older machines really were built well and can last a long time.

Such a pity...

The 2015 MBPs are still very relevant. They use fast SSBUX SSDs. RAM fairly fast. CPUs decent. GPUs ok. Screen great. Keyboard great. Forcetouch trackpad. Runs all the latest software.

 

[polee]

As we speak, my new 2015 MacBook Pros (13” and 15”) are undergoing migration assistant to them from my 2017 MacBook Pro.

I found both 2015 MBPs new sealed in the box. Just installed genuine Apple 512 GB HDs in them.

I can’t believe how excited I am to revert to older Apple hardware. The keyboard is just so terrible on the 2017 MBP after 1.5 years I have just given up. I’ll still use it but serious typing will happen on the 2015 units. The Touchbar is useless as well, and makes it even harder to use because of no top row physical keys. And the trackpad is too large.

I have to say, this 13” MBP is a gem.

Yes I am also using a MacBook Pro 2015 13" (bought a refurb in 2018), back from a MacBook 2015 and also a MacBook 2017. I can get so much more work done on the 2015 machine because I prefer using that keyboard and also its greater reliability.

 

[maflynn]

It seems inevitable, vast majority I know professionally have either already switched or are in the process of leaving the platform, even diehards...

I think apple's focus on the consumer sector, (among other moves) has pushed many professionals away from the platform. I still think a great many pros are still using the MBP and the MBP is not doomed to use a meme, but I think more and more people are less likely to buy the MBP just because of the fruit logo.

 

[_Kiki_]

I think apple's focus on the consumer sector, (among other moves) has pushed many professionals away from the platform. I still think a great many pros are still using the MBP and the MBP is not doomed to use a meme, but I think more and more people are less likely to buy the MBP just because of the fruit logo.

I'm not sure the Apple even can met expectations average consumer, for example the Safari every big update it's a big step back to dark ages, now Apple is abusing me by the bar on the top "This webpage is using significant memory (or energy). Closing it may improve the responsiveness of your Mac", this happening when I'm watching online TV on iMac 5K Retina with 32GB memory or MacBook Pro 15 2016, when I refuse the stream will freeze and I need close the tab and restart the stream again. There is no possibility to turn off this stupid and useless function. Also there is a problem with functioning some mainstream website, they doesn't simply work correctly, looks like optimisation and compatibility is very poor comparing to the other rivals like Edge, Chrome or Mozilla. I remember few years ago it was good and quality browser, now it's only frustration and disappointment. Apple flagship browser is falling apart. At this time Windows Edge is a lot of better than this scrap.

 

[Queen6]

I think apple's focus on the consumer sector, (among other moves) has pushed many professionals away from the platform. I still think a great many pros are still using the MBP and the MBP is not doomed to use a meme, but I think more and more people are less likely to buy the MBP just because of the fruit logo.

Agreed, these guy's are not dropping the MPB as they believe Apple is doomed, they are dropping it due to the reliability issues, port solution and performance, some the Touch Bar is a factor, mostly the keyboard & ports now being less practical/useable...

Simply my observation, some with lesser needs are holding on to the pre 2016 design, although they are becoming aged which can also force the change.

Q-6

 

[Painter2002]

Agreed, these guy's are not dropping the MPB as they believe Apple is doomed, they are dropping it due to the reliability issues, port solution and performance, some the Touch Bar is a factor, mostly the keyboard & ports now being less practical/useable...

Simply my observation, some with lesser needs are holding on to the pre 2016 design, although they are becoming aged which can also force the change.

Q-6

Yeah I think there is a genuine hope by many that the next gen of MBPs holds up to the standards of the pre 2016 machines. One can only hope.

 

[agaskew]

The 2015 MBPs are still very relevant. They use fast SSBUX SSDs. RAM fairly fast. CPUs decent. GPUs ok. Screen great. Keyboard great. Forcetouch trackpad. Runs all the latest software.

They are IMO plenty fast enough for many use cases. Laptops (all of 'em) are also subject to the merry-go-round of annual upgrades and new shiny stuff, just like phones. In fact this is one of the huge problems in the industry as a whole, where incremental/inconsequential updates are rushed out when they aren't ready.
The Apple factor here seems to be their unwillingness to admit mistakes and revert to better, older ideas or designs. I don't count their "a small number of customers" announcements as genuinely fessing up to mistakes.
However, in the case of these keyboards in particular, they have got a huge problem to solve, and I hope they get this fixed as we need an alternative to the W10 offerings.

 

[Queen6]

Yeah I think there is a genuine hope by many that the next gen of MBPs holds up to the standards of the pre 2016 machines. One can only hope.

Can only speak for myself; I think if Apple makes a concerted effort, I would certainly consider the MBP again as I believe many others will.

The catch being that Apple needs to put real effort in to meet the needs of professional users. Problem being that Apple again backed itself into a corner by solely focusing on the aesthetic, which if fine for consumer based hardware. Professional usage tends to demand greater flexibility and usability, coupled with reliability and performance.

The current keyboard and port solution are a big issue for many I know, some the performance and or SSD's on the Logic Board, all the reliability. TBH Apple needs to revert to a similar solution that the 2012 design offered, presenting a decent balance, solid reliability with a high level of usability. Problem being I don't see Apple doing this, they will be compelled to increase cooling capacity for the 9th Gen Intel CPU's. The keyboard goes without saying, it must be redesigned, larger display? The rest Apple is likely to gloss over.

Apple want's the MBP taken seriously again as a professional tool; it needs to fix the reliability first and foremost. If only a USB C solution Apple should equally offer a suitable USB hub, not leave it to myriad third parties to get it right or wrong. Touch Bar needs to be optional not enforced, or completely rethought out.

Unfortunately what I expect is basically what we currently have with a more reliable keyboard, launched with a vast sea of hyperbole. Apple seems to have lost all imagination and daring, with just being thinner certainly not being enough especially with the trade off's the current MBP presents.

To be straight had Apple simply upgraded the 2012 chassis, with the inclusion of USB C/TB-3 non of this current mess would have occurred, just tweak the design & KB and they would have likely held on to the majority of users who have switched. The other factor is that Windows and the OEM's have come a long way and are offering some very powerful systems with high levels of portability that are not crippled as the current MBP is.

As ever time will tell...

Q-6

 

[throAU]

As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

I'm seriously considering abandoning MacOS.

iOS - sure. My ipad pro is great, i like my iphone, airpods work well homepod works, etc.

Macbooks used to be a no brainer. Now... i'm seriously considering a Razor 13".

Better spec, similar to my old 13" retina in terms of sizing, etc. - for about $1300 australian less than what i'd pay for a quad core 13" pro.

I actually emailed tim cook with my thoughts last week. Whether he reads it or not, who knows. But text below

Fri, Mar 29, 9:58 PM (6 days ago)

to tcook

Hi Tim,

I write this as an Apple customer of 11 years, who has previously been a strong advocate for Apple computers, and other devices. I own 2 watches, several iPads including a Pro, 3 Airports, 3 Macs, 2 Homepods, etc.

My default answer for years, when asked by friends and colleages on which laptop to buy was pretty straight forward: "Do you need to run games on it? If not, get a macbook". It was that simple. It was a no-brainer.

Apple offered better battery life, great keyboards, great trackpads, great support, a great OS and on balance a reasonable price for what you got. And if you needed to run Windows? It ran windows better than a PC. Because the screen/trackpad and keyboard was better.

I myself ran a mac mini and then a 2011 Macbook Pro 15" (that i replaced after GPU failure in 2015 - despite that i was happy with it) followed by a 2015 Macbook Pro 13".

I am also a high end desktop PC user, purely because you do not offer any spec in a desktop that i care to pay for (I'm a PC gamer). But that's an entirely different matter. Back to the macbooks...

Fast forward 4 years...

Now? I am at a loss. To get a significant upgrade from my 13" machine from 2015, i need to spend about 1.5x the price i purchased my (still working) 2015 machine at.

I'm faced with a machine that for the most part, I either don't want or am seriously concerned about from a reliability perspective. I don't need or want the touch bar. I feel the new keyboard is nothing special to use, and it has a well documented reliability problem. And the price is off-putting. If i felt the machine was amazing (as i have with my previous Apple devices) - maybe.. grudgingly I'd part with the money (and be happy after the price shock). But now there are too many doubts.


In short, I'm staring down the barrel of about 3000-4000 AUD to replace a machine I paid $2500 AU for 4 years ago that has been flawless for 4 years. A new machine that looks like it is likely to fail at least once or twice during applecare, and after that will be a liability.

I simply have no incentive to upgrade. I WANT a new shiny macbook, but I'm simply too concerned to hand over my money

And more importantly... right now i do not have an answer when my friends or colleagues ask me what laptop to buy. ALL the PC laptops are generally crap. But at least if you buy one even 75% of the cost of a macbook, they're generally reliable (outside of the surface pro).


PLEASE

If you have to - go back to the previous keyboard design. Go back to the 2015 form factor. It was fine. I love my 2015. If we want something ultra portable that's what the iPad pro is for. I NEED my macbook to be reliable and feel like it is WORTH paying the premium for. I need it to work. Free repairs don't help me if the machine craps out on me when i'm at the office to resurrect my company's SAN or enterprise network on the weekend.

My 2015 still looks and performs like brand new. I have several friends with 2016+ machines who have had multiple returns.

Please. Get the Macbook line up in order, make an official announcement that you acknowledge the issue and are taking the relevant steps to rectify and i'll buy a new machine. I'm sure I'm not alone.

But until then... sorry but i can not bring myself to buy one of your macbooks. I'll run the 2015 until it dies and if there isn't something I'm confident about buying in Apple's lineup I'll simply jump ship.


I honestly don't expect an response, but hopefully if enough concerned Mac users write you there will be a response on the market.


Cheers

[doublepost=1554367544][/doublepost]

Interesting article on the crap MB Pro keyboard.

https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-macbook-keyboard-fiasco-is-surely-worse-than-apple-thinks/

The irony is, if i could buy a macbook pro style device with a detachable keyboard and a touch screen... like say... an ipad pro - that ran macOS and could do the things macOS could do it would not be an issue. Well. Less of an issue, because i could bin the keyboard and replace without having a $4000 paperweight.

Irony.... buying an ipad pro to get an apple portable with a KEYBOARD THAT ACTUALLY WORKS

 

[richinaus]

I'm seriously considering abandoning MacOS.

iOS - sure. My ipad pro is great, i like my iphone, airpods work well homepod works, etc.

Macbooks used to be a no brainer. Now... i'm seriously considering a Razor 13".

Better spec, similar to my old 15" retina in terms of sizing, etc. - for about $1300 australian less than what i'd pay for a quad core 13" pro.

I actually emailed tim cook with my thoughts last week. Whether he reads it or not, who knows. But text below



[doublepost=1554367544][/doublepost]

The irony is, if i could buy a macbook pro style device with a detachable keyboard and a touch screen... like say... an ipad pro - that ran macOS and could do the things macOS could do it would not be an issue. Well. Less of an issue, because i could bin the keyboard and replace without having a $4000 paperweight.

Irony.... buying an ipad pro to get an apple portable with a KEYBOARD THAT ACTUALLY WORKS

I hope the Razer goes well for you - they look good in a lot of ways, but i would prefer to have solid support, so only look at HP and Lenovo pro machines as replacements.

The real irony of your post is that the iPad Pro keyboards aren’t reliable - we have had 2 fail on us completely.

 

[throAU]

The real irony of your post is that the iPad Pro keyboards aren’t reliable - we have had 2 fail on us completely.

Your sample size of 2 doesn't really indicate failure.

The other thing with the ipad pro is that there is not just ONE keyboard available. I'm guessing you're assuming i am using the apple keyboard? I'm not.

I've got logitech keyboard case for mine and have no complaints. Has a holder for the pencil, keyboard works well, etc.

 

[Mildredop]

I'm seriously considering abandoning MacOS.

It frustrates me that no-one else (MS, Google etc) has seized the opportunity to push ahead while Apple stagnates.

Mac OS has barely changed for a decade. MS is still not enticing me and Chrome OS is confusing and pointless.

 

[richinaus]

Your sample size of 2 doesn't really indicate failure.

The other thing with the ipad pro is that there is not just ONE keyboard available. I'm guessing you're assuming i am using the apple keyboard? I'm not.

I've got logitech keyboard case for mine and have no complaints. Has a holder for the pencil, keyboard works well, etc.

You sound like you have it all sorted.

 

[The_Interloper]

Your sample size of 2 doesn't really indicate failure.

How about a 3-year warranty extension/replacement program? https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rogram-for-defective-ipad-pro-smart-keyboards

The new ones also look like expensive duds: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-after-one-month-just-by-holding-it.2171999/

Apple's QC is shot to bits right now. Lousy/failing keyboards, FlexGate, iPad Pro touchscreen issues and bending out of the box, Mac Mini Bluetooth issues, throttling on everything...sheesh. And that's not even counting the last few years of iPhone X Touch Disease, failing GPUs in Mac Pro (still being sold!!!) etc. Something is rotten in Cupertino.

 

[maflynn]

It frustrates me that no-one else (MS, Google etc) has seized the opportunity to push ahead while Apple stagnates.

Mac OS has barely changed for a decade. MS is still not enticing me and Chrome OS is confusing and pointless.

On the hardware front, Apple's competitors are moving forward, and providing designs that imo are superior to apple, providing quality superior to apple and at a price point that is typically less then what apple charges.

On the software side, things are a bit different, both Windows and macOS are mature operating systems, what sort of features would you say that MS or google would need to add to leap frog apple? I will say that MS has swung for the fences a number of times with its updates, sometimes providing nice updates, sometimes swinging and missing. Apple hasn't really done much, Mojave's biggest feature seems to be dark mode.

 

[WickedPorter]

On the hardware front, Apple's competitors are moving forward, and providing designs that imo are superior to apple, providing quality superior to apple and at a price point that is typically less then what apple charges.

I've yet to find this ... This is what is preventing me from switching. A few things in particular that I'm having trouble finding in a comparable machine, things that are very important to me:

• Track Pad... something like Apple's design, no moving parts, haptic (no "diving boards"), smooth, highly sensitive, glass
• A P3 screen with emphasis on QC around uniformity (both on color and light)
• The "good things" about the MacBook: Rigid/metal casing, thin, light, TB3

The two that I've found that come closest to this, but are still not quite up to par: various premium ThinkPad models and the Huawei MateBook Pro X.

Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[c0ppo]

It seems like you want a macbook. So get one then