Anyone else abandoning ship?

[Painter2002]

They're questionable, and they always have been. It's what made the iPad come to market and dominate: failed Windows tablets and convertibles. Turns out the thin, simplistic, slate device that is the iPad is what put tablets on the map, not 2-in-1 devices. And why iPad sells in the millions every quarter.

The Surface Book and Yoga are interesting, but they are not the best laptops and not the best tablets because they compromise given their 2-in-1 nature. This extends to the software as well. They will never dominate dedicated laptops and tablets like the iPad, MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, etc.
[doublepost=1554092915][/doublepost]

No, they don't. You post 4 articles and can't generalize from that, and that these articles actually don't fully support your position. Articles that, overall, are all over the place.

Reality:

"...sales of detachables in general were relatively weak in Q3 [2018]: total tablet sales in the region fell 2.9 per cent to 7.5 million. The slate form factor accounted for the majority of these shipments into the channel. Detachables, which accounted for one-fifth of the sector, declined 14.5 per cent year-on-year."

The 2-in-1s are better than they were 15 years ago, no surprise there. But the same principles apply.

The numbers speak to the reality I experience as well. In the corporate world where I exist, including working with contractors from all over Canada and the US, along with in-house staff (I'm in IT), nobody has a 2-in-1.

When I move about the world, Starbucks, malls, restaurants, etc., almost nobody has 2-in-1s. People use smartphones. And then we have laptops as a portable desktop. A tablet has a hard enough time competing with big smartphones, let along a design compromised iteration of it stuck in a 2-in-1 worm hole.

Yet see in my highly mobile industry that I work for, many of our people use 2n1 surface tablets because they need the functionality that a laptop has with the portability that an iPad has. Just because you don’t see them in your line of work or in malls or Starbucks doesn’t mean there isn’t a demand for them. In fact, if Apple were to make their iPad Pro lineup have an iOS interface that supported mouse/trackpad use, I’d seriously consider using it to replace my personal MacBooks pro. I need mouse functionality but I don’t get that with a tablet. Now a 2n1 like a surface device I could.

Now I would not buy a surface because I don’t care for it’s design (no offense to fans of it), and quite honestly I love my MacBook Pro, which does everything I need it to. But saying there isn’t a demand for 2n1 or that they are “questionable” is peculiar to me, because they have the very things that I want in an iPad but can’t get.

 

[booksbooks]

Yet see in my highly mobile industry that I work for, many of our people use 2n1 surface tablets because they need the functionality that a laptop has with the portability that an iPad has. Just because you don’t see them in your line of work or in malls or Starbucks doesn’t mean there isn’t a demand for them. In fact, if Apple were to make their iPad Pro lineup have an iOS interface that supported mouse/trackpad use, I’d seriously consider using it to replace my personal MacBooks pro. I need mouse functionality but I don’t get that with a tablet. Now a 2n1 like a surface device I could.

Now I would not buy a surface because I don’t care for it’s design (no offense to fans of it), and quite honestly I love my MacBook Pro, which does everything I need it to. But saying there isn’t a demand for 2n1 or that they are “questionable” is peculiar to me, because they have the very things that I want in an iPad but can’t get.

I didn't say there aren't some 2-in-1s out there, they're just not ubiquitous and I don't see them ever being.

Now, onto what you want in an iPad. If iOS had mouse and trackpad support, you'd consider buying one... where it would then replace your MacBook Pro.

What do you think the experience would be like using a mouse and a trackpad in iOS.

 

[R.P.G]

The screenshot I posted was of a freshly installed Pro edition. One has to note that educational versions of Windows 10 seem to come with ads disabled, it might also be the case for enterprise versions as well. For most of our work machines, we use provisioned Windows that disables all this crap, but some machines I have to occasionally work with run regular home or pro edition.
[doublepost=1553780400][/doublepost]

Oh my, sorry, after all this "got a screenshot for something that is known to annoy millions of users worldwide" stuff I kind of lost my sense of humour

would like to know more..you see them when you go to start menu and you can uninstall them like some one said.

question is..do they send you 'Repetitive ads' to install them like someone arguing in above posts? or any ads specific to browsing history like someone mentioned in previous posts..that would be annoying and not professional.

 

[c0ppo]

Why keep on feeding him?
Since when did this become SB vs iPad thread?☹️

 

[leman]

Why keep on feeding him?
Since when did this become SB vs iPad thread?☹️

Everything to be said on the topic was said on the first few pages. Since then it just has been a rather random conversation, if you can even call it one (conversation usually means people listen and reply to what has been said instead of abruptly changing the topic)

 

[Martyimac]

Why keep on feeding him?
Since when did this become SB vs iPad thread?☹️

I have quit feeding him. Not worth my time to keep getting the exact same post in every response to my posts.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I have quit feeding him. Not worth my time to keep getting the exact same post in every response to my posts.

Me too. I guess we could all put him on ignore. But that seems so...lame. I haven't done that to anyone yet.

 

[Painter2002]

Why keep on feeding him?
Since when did this become SB vs iPad thread?☹️

Agreed. I’m moving on on the topic. Sorry if I helped drag it out.

 

[Mendota]

Today is my birthday everyone. Microsoft remembered! And I want to think everyone here on Macrumors for a really great community. We may not always be in agreement, but we all love tech.

 

[SDColorado]

Today is my birthday everyone. Microsoft remembered! And I want to think everyone here on Macrumors for a really great community. We may not always be in agreement, but we all love tech.

Wait what? You are an April Fool? Happy Birthday!

 

[zachlegomaniac]

I'm currently in desperate need of a replacement of my 2013 rMBP due to its 4GB of (soldered) RAM and a large change in my computing needs since that purchase.

I've been using Macs since I was a kid, switched briefly to Windows for the last several years of my education (through undergrad), and switched back in the early '00's.

My brother has the 2016 and, after witnessing his frustration, I won't buy any Mac with a butterfly keyboard. I've started to explore Windows machines and am not looking forward to a change. I hope something comes out between now and October that looks promising. If not, I don't feel I will have a choice, but to purchase a Windows machine for my work. Fingers crossed.

 

[Mendota]

I'm currently in desperate need of a replacement of my 2013 rMBP due to its 4GB of (soldered) RAM and a large change in my computing needs since that purchase.

I've been using Macs since I was a kid, switched briefly to Windows for the last several years of my education (through undergrad), and switched back in the early '00's.

My brother has the 2016 and, after witnessing his frustration, I won't buy any Mac with a butterfly keyboard. I've started to explore Windows machines and am not looking forward to a change. I hope something comes out between now and October that looks promising. If not, I don't feel I will have a choice, but to purchase a Windows machine for my work. Fingers crossed.

Hope springs eternal. Now that Apple has admitted (a small number they say) there are problems with the keyboard. They might go back to the drawing board and come out with something really specular. After all the first step to fixing a problem is admitting that you have one.

 

[SDColorado]

Hope springs eternal. Now that Apple has admitted (a small number they say) there are problems with the keyboard. They might go back to the drawing board and come out with something really specular. After all the first step to fixing a problem is admitting that you have one.

I am not sure that I would count on a change for 2019, probably too late in the development game for more than another Gen. 4 with a tweak? Maybe for 2020? Gen. 1, Gen. 2 and probably Gen. 3 repair programs seem to indicate Apple is more than willing to just issue an apology, a repair program, and another try with a new Gen.

 

[booksbooks]

I'm currently in desperate need of a replacement of my 2013 rMBP due to its 4GB of (soldered) RAM and a large change in my computing needs since that purchase.

I've been using Macs since I was a kid, switched briefly to Windows for the last several years of my education (through undergrad), and switched back in the early '00's.

My brother has the 2016 and, after witnessing his frustration, I won't buy any Mac with a butterfly keyboard. I've started to explore Windows machines and am not looking forward to a change. I hope something comes out between now and October that looks promising. If not, I don't feel I will have a choice, but to purchase a Windows machine for my work. Fingers crossed.

I wouldn’t expect any change this year. These MacBook Pros are still relatively new in terms of design. And the fact that Apple came out with a new MacBook Air just last year using the same crap keyboard tells us they’re locked into this overall design pattern.

A major keyboard revision that includes much more key travel, among other things, will require physical design changes to the laptop. And they can’t just design in a vacuum: they will need complete redesigns.

It will likely be at least 2-3 years until redesigns occur.

Which is why as of yesterday I found and bought two new in the box MacBook Pro 2015 models and am installing super fast hard drives in them.

My Touchbar MacBook Pro will still get used at work, but I’m bringing these machines into my life as well for serious work and typing.

I have given up on the piece of trash butterfly keyboard. It sucks. It continues to cause typing errors and there is no escaping it. The Touchbar is also worthless and the trackpad just too big.

 

[zachlegomaniac]

I wouldn’t expect any change this year. These MacBook Pros are still relatively new in terms of design. And the fact that Apple came out with a new MacBook Air just last year using the same crap keyboard tells us they’re locked into this overall design pattern.

A major keyboard revision that includes much more key travel, among other things, will require physical design changes to the laptop. And they can’t just design in a vacuum: they will need complete redesigns.

It will likely be at least 2-3 years until redesigns occur.

Which is why as of yesterday I found and bought two new in the box MacBook Pro 2015 models and am installing super fast hard drives in them.

My Touchbar MacBook Pro will still get used at work, but I’m bringing these machines into my life as well for serious work and typing.

I have given up on the piece of trash butterfly keyboard. It sucks. It continues to cause typing errors and there is no escaping it. The Touchbar is also worthless and the trackpad just too big.

It would be my first time buying a model a few years old (versus newly released or new to the refurb store), but I have considered it. Are you buying them with the cheapest hard drive Apple will sell you and doing the replacement yourself or can you still customize an older machine when purchasing as new?

I’ll hop on to Apple’s website to check this out. I have to assume the prices are cheaper than they were first released. ?

 

[Mendota]

I wouldn’t expect any change this year. These MacBook Pros are still relatively new in terms of design. And the fact that Apple came out with a new MacBook Air just last year using the same crap keyboard tells us they’re locked into this overall design pattern.

A major keyboard revision that includes much more key travel, among other things, will require physical design changes to the laptop. And they can’t just design in a vacuum: they will need complete redesigns.

It will likely be at least 2-3 years until redesigns occur.

Which is why as of yesterday I found and bought two new in the box MacBook Pro 2015 models and am installing super fast hard drives in them.

My Touchbar MacBook Pro will still get used at work, but I’m bringing these machines into my life as well for serious work and typing.

I have given up on the piece of trash butterfly keyboard. It sucks. It continues to cause typing errors and there is no escaping it. The Touchbar is also worthless and the trackpad just too big.

Well you could be right. The thing is given Apple's resources it is hard to understand why it should take them years to come up with a new design. Heck they could use their old designs. Companies such as Dell, who have less money have multiple product lines, and they release new ones on a constant basis. Dell once did a wooden keyboard if you can believe that! I just don't see why this is such a chore for Apple.

 

[leman]

I wouldn’t expect any change this year [...] It will likely be at least 2-3 years until redesigns occur.

Following Apple's redesign schedule, the next big change is expected next year. The current design is 3 years old. Historically, a MBP had a chassis redesign every 2-4 years.

 

[Painter2002]

Well you could be right. The thing is given Apple's resources it is hard to understand why it should take them years to come up with a new design. Heck they could use their old designs. Companies such as Dell, who have less money have multiple product lines, and they release new ones on a constant basis.

You have to remember too that Apple is also programming their MacOS updates as well, they aren't just designing and building computers to work with a generic OS like Windows. I think Apple's design and programming depts work more closely to engineer new features, and this takes more time than just designing a new device.

I think Apple tries (even when unsuccessful) to come up with new ideas or designs that are more original than other manufacturers. These new features take a lot of time and money to design and verify they work (although I think the QA dept was sleeping or on vacation when the current gen MacBook Pros were being designed). So I can understand that they want to try to get their money's worth of R&D for each design.
[doublepost=1554137205][/doublepost]I would add that I am afraid that the high number of "gates" with the current gen of MacBook Pro may be pushing Apple to release their next redesign earlier than it was originally slated to come out. I am assuming that a lot of these designs are made 2-3 years in advance of their release, and I fear that Apple may rush to release their next redesign a year or two earlier, which could result in another "gate"-ridden design because there wasn't enough time to properly QA the design.

As much as I am excited and hopeful for a new and improved design to come out, I personally would rather wait another year so Apple can get it right with no or at least less serious issues on the next MacBook Pro.

 

[zachlegomaniac]

What amazes me is that, in my entire history purchasing Apple computers, this is the first time where I have the need for a new machine to replace my existing, but don't feel I can simply get on their website, see which new model best fits my needs for work and just purchase it as I always have.

 

[booksbooks]

Following Apple's redesign schedule, the next big change is expected next year. The current design is 3 years old. Historically, a MBP had a chassis redesign every 2-4 years.

Not seeing that. The previous generation MBPs were effectively the same design for over 6 years, they just made them thinner.

Also, Apple just launched the MacBook Air last year. This design language and framework isn’t going away anytime soon.

Apple needs to go back to the drawing board and completely redesign the laptop. They will not release an iterative design at this point that’s thicker and heavier than what they currently have, so here we are locked in.

What kind of design do I envision? Super thin screen bezels where the sides are curved glass. A reduced size body. Leading keyboard design with good travel that also includes digital haptic feedback in every single key. An optimized trackpad size that’s a bit smaller than current gen. Less sharp edges with a mix of materials like magnesium, aluminum and rubber. True wireless charging. Extra long battery life and no ac adapter, as it’s built in. Also will have custom Apple silicon: no more intel.

 

[leman]

Not seeing that. The previous generation MBPs were effectively the same design for over 6 years, they just made them thinner.

2006 - MacBook Pro
2008 - Unibody
2012 - Retina
2016 - Touch Bar

I agree with you though that both retina and touch bar designs are iterative refinements/reductions of the unibody design. I also agree that there is probably not much refining left, since the Touch Bar design is pretty much as minimalist as it gets. Rather curios where they will do next. It's either going to be a total redesign, as you say, or they will go conservative and keep the current minimalist chassis with some refinements.

Personally, what I want to see is the glass keyboard with pressable e-ink keys (as per more recent patents). That would be a true game changer for keyboard layouts... as for the rest of the laptop, I don't care much. The current chassis is excellent, so I'd rather they not change it just for the sake of change alone.

 

[c0ppo]

It's funny actually how everything almost everything comes down to personal preference. I say almost everything, because there are people here who will defend butterfly keyboards till the end of time.

When MB12 in 2015 came out, I got one. And I loved the keyboard on it. I owned it until recently, and bare in mind, that keyboard is very different to current butterfly keyboards. That one feels even shallower. As a mechanical keyboard user (I own more then 10 different mechanical keyboards), I actually loved the feel of butterfly keyboards. Until I didn't.

MB12 as used as a surf/mail/youtube/torrent/movie machine. So no actual work on it.
But when I got my first MBP with the butterfly keyboard, after only 2-3 weeks, my fingers would get cramped. I work a lot, and type a lot (developer). So after actually using that keyboard for work, from 'the best laptop keyboar EVAH!' to the worst, it took me only 2-3 weeks.

And that happened before multiple keyboard failures. Even if butterfly keyboards didn't fail and break, I would still hate them. Because they aren't really good for your fingers. At least not mine.

But as everyone knows, they tend to fail. And fail a lot. I had multiple fails, so even if I still loved the typing feel, I wouldn't even look at them anymore. At least not for my own money. Because 3000$+ for a keyboard that will fail is a joke.

But some people complain about trackpads being to large. I actually love those trackpads. At first I hated them, but Apple fixed 'moving cursor by mistake'. At least in my case. And larger trackpad = more space for gestures. I still love the trackpad.

All in all, I loved the keyboard, now I hate it. I hated the trackpad, now I love it.
But only thing that I hated from the very start, and still do to this day - touchbar.

That thing is a complete gimmick. It brought nothing useful, and took a lot of useful stuff. I mean you can't even see it in direct sunlight! How great is that?

I hate having everything soldered on. I really hate that. I hate having just usb-c ports. But I can put out with idiocy of those decisions by Apple. But when they release the redesigned MBP, be it this year, or next, or 2021... Well, for me personally, butterfly keyboard needs to go away, and touchbar as well. If any of those two remain, I don't even plan on trying MBP out. Since those two don't suite me at all, and I know, I tried... Why even bother?

Apple needs to work on their 'pro' clients. If not, those tend to go away. And fast. And most pros aren't really ready to change their workflows. Unless you make them do it. Like Apple currently has. Apple has Mac OS going for them, and that is the only reason I'm hoping they fix their pro lineup. But if not, well, I wish them all the best.
[doublepost=1554158529][/doublepost]

Personally, what I want to see is the glass keyboard with pressable e-ink keys (as per more recent patents). That would be a true game changer for keyboard layouts... as for the rest of the laptop, I don't care much. The current chassis is excellent, so I'd rather they not change it just for the sake of change alone.

Agree to disagree on just about anything you wrote here?

 

[Mendota]

2006 - MacBook Pro
2008 - Unibody
2012 - Retina
2016 - Touch Bar

I agree with you though that both retina and touch bar designs are iterative refinements/reductions of the unibody design. I also agree that there is probably not much refining left, since the Touch Bar design is pretty much as minimalist as it gets. Rather curios where they will do next. It's either going to be a total redesign, as you say, or they will go conservative and keep the current minimalist chassis with some refinements.

Personally, what I want to see is the glass keyboard with pressable e-ink keys (as per more recent patents). That would be a true game changer for keyboard layouts... as for the rest of the laptop, I don't care much. The current chassis is excellent, so I'd rather they not change it just for the sake of change alone.

The glass keyboard with e-ink has already been done by Lenovo. The Yoga Book. I have one.

 

[Queen6]

The glass keyboard with e-ink has already been done by Lenovo. The Yoga Book. I have one.

Yeah I wanted to pick on up, until Lenovo decided to price the new Yoga Book at close to $1600 in Asia, which instantly flipped on my red light for poor value & price gouging. At around $1K it's an interesting proposition as to some extents it's a sample of things to come.

You can pick one up for less than $800 in the US with Lenovo's eCoupon which is great for the guys stateside, however asking twice the price in Asia, results in the obvious - No Sale...

Q-6

 

[c0ppo]

I wouldn’t purchase one even for 500$. No real physical keyboard is a major no-go for me.