Anyone else uninterested in a 4K Apple TV at this point?

[Rigby]

It's a shame that sound formats have been overlooked. Last year I bought a Yamaha YSP-2500 which outputs outstanding detail and immersion when watching DTS-HD and other uncompressed sound formats. There is no way I'm compromising on sound.

DTS-HD is not uncompressed. It's compressed losslessly.

I guess I'll be sticking with Blurays until there is a 4K streaming device that supports a wide range or sound formats.

Fingers cross the net ChromeCast or Fire TV are comprehensive and future proof.

There is currently not a single streaming provider that streams lossless audio tracks. For local content, apps such as Infuse can decode DTS-HD and send it to the AVR in PCM format (which actually is uncompressed ). This does not compromise audio quality.

 

[big samm]

Like the op i also have a 4k tv Lg 65 B6 and i already have all the apps built in like Netflix, Amazon Prime video, Youtube, all have lots of 4k content! The only reason i would use the apple tv 4k would be to airplay my videos that i shoot in 4k from my iPhone, and the 4k movies on itunes being the same price as the hd version. Movies and tv shows in 4k are splendid!! 1080p is still ok but 4k is the way things are going slowly but surely.

 

[dogslobber]

My biggest issue with Apple 4k is paying high prices for a file download thats lossy.

A 2k Blu-ray will be a quarter the size of a 4K compression stream, right? If a 4K Blu-ray could be 66GB to 100GB then just how is this going to be anything but a disaster?

 

[archer75]

Like the op i also have a 4k tv Lg 65 B6 and i already have all the apps built in like Netflix, Amazon Prime video, Youtube, all have lots of 4k content! The only reason i would use the apple tv 4k would be to airplay my videos that i shoot in 4k from my iPhone, and the 4k movies on itunes being the same price as the hd version. Movies and tv shows in 4k are splendid!! 1080p is still ok but 4k is the way things are going slowly but surely.

The problem with the built in TV apps is the audio. You only get DD via ARC to the receiver. To get the best audio you have to run a streaming device through the receiver.
Audio, to me, is maybe even more important than the picture quality.

 

[fathergll]

A 2k Blu-ray will be a quarter the size of a 4K compression stream, right?

No, a really good 1080 Blu-ray disc will output around 30 Mbps(Star Wars Force Awakens uses that on Blu-ray for example and Rogue One uses 34 Mbps)

A Netflix 4k stream is 15.6 Mbps from what I am reading. Apparently it's using a very efficient compression method but compression is still compression and the audio is taking a hit for sure on a streaming site.

If a 4K Blu-ray could be 66GB to 100GB then just how is this going to be anything but a disaster?

Hence the problem. A 4k stream can't come close to matching a 4K Blu-ray unless there is some breakthrough in compression tech OR they up the file sizes by a large margin. Even a 1080 Blu-ray disc is still superior to a 4k stream from what I am reading.

 

[archer75]

No, a really good 1080 Blu-ray disc will output around 30 Mbps(Star Wars Force Awakens uses that on Blu-ray for example and Rogue One uses 34 Mbps)

A Netflix 4k stream is 15.6 Mbps from what I am reading. Apparently it's using a very efficient compression method but compression is still compression and the audio is taking a hit for sure on a streaming site.





Hence the problem. A 4k stream can't come close to matching a 4K Blu-ray unless there is some breakthrough in compression tech OR they up the file sizes by a large margin. Even a 1080 Blu-ray disc is still superior to a 4k stream from what I am reading.

HEVC(H.265) is how you do it. Even with the compression I bet you couldn't tell the difference between the disc and a quality streaming encode. Been doing it with bluray for years and all my rips look exactly like the originals at a fraction of the size.
And a bluray with upconversion on a 4K TV looks almost like the 4k movie. Depending on your viewing distance you may not be able to see a difference at all.

 

[fathergll]

HEVC(H.265) is how you do it. Even with the compression I bet you couldn't tell the difference between the disc and a quality streaming encode. Been doing it with bluray for years and all my rips look exactly like the originals at a fraction of the size.

Are you talking about your personal Blu-ray rips being identical to Blurray or the file downloads from Netflix/Apple....etc?

 

[purpleparrotuk]

That used to be an issue in Apple's own Movie app, but it isn't in Infuse or MrMC (or other 3rd party apps like Netflix etc.).

It used to be rubbish in Netflix too. I had the use my nvidia shield instead for far superior sound.

 

[twinlight]

If we had any kind of support for live tv, more 4K material and the box had thrown in PiP support, multitasking and some other nifty features I would upgrade. Right now my ATV4 is overpowered and still missing features that should be working.

 

[archer75]

Are you talking about your personal Blu-ray rips being identical to Blurray or the file downloads from Netflix/Apple....etc?

Any. My rips look as good as the discs.

But i've also seen streaming that looked just as good(based on viewing distance).

4k vudu looks as good as the 4k disc I have on my oppo. And that was with a very short viewing distance.

 

[Donfor39]

4K Apple t.v.

2018 upgrade.

Prob downgrade skymovies again.

What a nice add on to Sony 4K tv

 

[boltjames]

What 65" did you buy?

I recently got a LG C7 65" OLED and watch mostly DirecTV HD and the upscaling works really well. I doubt that will be an issue for you. If you have Amazon Prime, try out some of the Amazon original HDR material like Bosch... looks really great.

Thanks! I'll try Amazon HDR.

I got a 65" Sony 900E. I'm about 5 hours in and still tweaking settings, but it looks great so far in 1080 which is the most important thing to me. The 4K on YouTube is stellar.

 

[dogslobber]

HEVC(H.265) is how you do it. Even with the compression I bet you couldn't tell the difference between the disc and a quality streaming encode. Been doing it with bluray for years and all my rips look exactly like the originals at a fraction of the size.
And a bluray with upconversion on a 4K TV looks almost like the 4k movie. Depending on your viewing distance you may not be able to see a difference at all.

If I look at an OTA 720P versus a Comcast 720P of the same stream then the difference is very noticeable. If that can be used as the benchmark then 4K will be trash.

 

[vipergts2207]

Thanks! I'll try Amazon HDR.

I got a 65" Sony 900E. I'm about 5 hours in and still tweaking settings, but it looks great so far in 1080 which is the most important thing to me. The 4K on YouTube is stellar.

Here are some settings you can try, as I also have a 900E. I took Rtings as a baseline and calibrated with the Spears and Munsil Blu-Ray. These are settings for SDR content btw, not HDR.

Picture mode: Custom (Also Game mode for when playing games)
Auto picture mode: Off
Brightness: 30
Color: 52 (58 in Game mode)
Light sensor: On (I like this being on due to my varied lighting environments)

Brightness Tab
Brightness: 30
Contrast: 95
Gamma: 0
Black Level: 50 (51 in Game mode to make it a tad bit easier to see things in dark areas for games)
Black Adjust: Off
Adv. contrast enhancer: Off
Auto local dimming: Medium
X-tended Dynamic Range: High

Color Tab
Color: 52 (58 in Game mode)
Hue: 0 (R1 in Game mode)
Color temperature: Expert 1
Adv. color temperature: Default values as I do not have the equipment needed to calibrate these settings
Live Color: Off

Clarity Tab
Sharpness: 51
Reality Creation: Off
Random noise reduction: Off
Digital noise reduction: Off
Smooth gradation: Low

Motion Tab
Motionflow: True Cinema (Off in game mode)
Cinemotion: High (Forced default to Off in game mode)

Video Options Tab
All Auto

 

[archer75]

If I look at an OTA 720P versus a Comcast 720P of the same stream then the difference is very noticeable. If that can be used as the benchmark then 4K will be trash.

You're talking broadcast content here which isn't the same. They have very different rates of compression and how they transmit varies. Sooooo many variables.
OTA should always look better than cable.
No, you can't compare broadcast TV content to streaming content.

 

[ActionableMango]

I would like to see 24 Hz support as well, but most nicer TV's come with a reverse 3:2 pulldown feature that essentially converts a judder laden 60Hz signal to smooth 24 Hz.

Sort of. On many models it's a bit of a lie.

An astonishing number of high end TVs with reverse telecine can't actually do it from a 60p source. For example I have an LG OLED 65E6P and it has reverse telecine (called Real Cinema). It will convert 60 to 24 judder-free... but not from a progressive source. Which is basically useless.

Prior to the LG OLED I had an extremely high end 9th gen Pioneer KURO and it was the exact same scenario. It had reverse telecine but it didn't actually work from a 60p source. (Well, it could, but only a 720p/60 source, not a 1080p/60 source.)

Even those models that can truly do reverse telecine on a 60p source, like the Sony 900E, can get screwed up and actually make things worse. This happens typically when there is switching between frame rates (like for commercials or switching from menus/logos to content on a disc), or also when there is an overlay.

What a mess.

So the real solution here is just for Apple to send 24p content at 24p. What's so hard about that? For crying out loud, I have a crappy 9-year old blu-ray player that can do it.

 

[Tech198]

I'm not interested in 4k TV, so there you go.

I would say the same.. Exactly the same

Apple should do the same Netflix does.., Auto adjust quality based on bandwidth usage, as well as a single option for 1080p and 720 because it would always buffer more anyway..

This way Apple can upgrade all content to 4K, and it would auto adjust based on bandwidth at the time

 

[Gonzbull]

It is the lack of a separate digital audio output that is the killer for me. I don't want to receive my digital audio out via a 4K TV (which then has to be on if I am listening to audio and not watching video), when using Airplay etc. I am sure any digital audio stripped out from the HDMI and then filtered via a TV to its TOSlink optical out, it going to be messed about with and 48k/16 bit at best. With the Mac Mini I use as a media player at the moment, although it is limited to 1080p on my 4K TV, at least I can get 192kHz/24 bit audio LCPM Stereo via the USB to my Benchmark Media DAC 3L and then on to the Krell/ATC audio system.

Why would you want to listen to music via an ATV? I have a seperate setup for audio via a MBP running Audirvana straight to my RME Adi-Pro DAC via USB.
ATV is just for movies and I run an optical out from TV to the optical in of the same DAC.

 

[danny842003]

Why would you want to listen to music via an ATV? I have a seperate setup for audio via a MBP running Audirvana straight to my RME Adi-Pro DAC via USB.
ATV is just for movies and I run an optical out from TV to the optical in of the same DAC.

I have a sounbar with my TV. Rather than having sonething else set up it would be great to have Apple Music play through my soundbar.

 

[boltjames]

Here are some settings you can try, as I also have a 900E. I took Rtings as a baseline and calibrated with the Spears and Munsil Blu-Ray. These are settings for SDR content btw, not HDR.

Picture mode: Custom (Also Game mode for when playing games)
Auto picture mode: Off
Brightness: 30
Color: 52 (58 in Game mode)
Light sensor: On (I like this being on due to my varied lighting environments)

Brightness Tab
Brightness: 30
Contrast: 95
Gamma: 0
Black Level: 50 (51 in Game mode to make it a tad bit easier to see things in dark areas for games)
Black Adjust: Off
Adv. contrast enhancer: Off
Auto local dimming: Medium
X-tended Dynamic Range: High

Color Tab
Color: 52 (58 in Game mode)
Hue: 0 (R1 in Game mode)
Color temperature: Expert 1
Adv. color temperature: Default values as I do not have the equipment needed to calibrate these settings
Live Color: Off

Clarity Tab
Sharpness: 51
Reality Creation: Off
Random noise reduction: Off
Digital noise reduction: Off
Smooth gradation: Low

Motion Tab
Motionflow: True Cinema (Off in game mode)
Cinemotion: High (Forced default to Off in game mode)

Video Options Tab
All Auto

Thank you! I'll try these in the morning and let you know of the results.

I really appreciate it.

 

[jasper1977]

So the real solution here is just for Apple to send 24p content at 24p. What's so hard about that? For crying out loud, I have a crappy 9-year old blu-ray player that can do it.

Just received a reply from Craig Michaels from Apple (I sent an email to Eddy Cue) regarding 24p output on the new Apple TV 4K:

Stijn,
Thank you taking the time to reach out about Apple TV. At this time, Apple TV 4K doesn’t support this output mode.
We appreciate your interest in Apple TV 4K and will take your feedback into consideration as we plan for future enhancements.
Best,
Craig
Begin forwarded message:

From: Stijn Van Nuffelen <****@mac.com>
Subject: 24Hz output Apple TV 4K
Date: September 13, 2017 at 1:30:16 AM PDT

Hi Eddy,

Will the new Apple TV 4K be able to output native 1080p24 instead of 60hz to 24hz compatible tv screens like my Pioneer Kuro?

Best regards,

 

[arggg14]

I think I'll give it a try... I have a Samsung KS8000 4k TV and my entire movie collection of 1080p ripped ISO blu rays on a NAS which has Plex installed on it. Maybe the picture will look better with upscaled content, but will certainly be great streaming Amazon and Netflix.

 

[archer75]

I would say the same.. Exactly the same

Apple should do the same Netflix does.., Auto adjust quality based on bandwidth usage, as well as a single option for 1080p and 720 because it would always buffer more anyway..

This way Apple can upgrade all content to 4K, and it would auto adjust based on bandwidth at the time

Netflix doesn't even do that. If netflix doesn't detect you have a 4k TV it doesn't even try to go 4k. You won't even have an option to play 4k. Even with a 4k plan netflix on non 4k device won't even list their content at 4k.
It doesn't adjust to bandwidth usage. It adjusts based upon your network speed at a given time.

Just received a reply from Craig Michaels from Apple (I sent an email to Eddy Cue) regarding 24p output on the new Apple TV 4K:

Stijn,
Thank you taking the time to reach out about Apple TV. At this time, Apple TV 4K doesn’t support this output mode.
We appreciate your interest in Apple TV 4K and will take your feedback into consideration as we plan for future enhancements.
Best,
Craig
Begin forwarded message:

From: Stijn Van Nuffelen <****@mac.com>
Subject: 24Hz output Apple TV 4K
Date: September 13, 2017 at 1:30:16 AM PDT

Hi Eddy,

Will the new Apple TV 4K be able to output native 1080p24 instead of 60hz to 24hz compatible tv screens like my Pioneer Kuro?

Best regards,

Great that you got a response. Could you ask them about supporting Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS:X?

 

[jedisaga]

I have an OLED 4K tv, but Apple TV 4 disappointed me so much, i think I’m done investing in apple set top boxes.

They mostly collect dust aside from HBO, I just use built in apps on my LG if anything and my xb1s for 4K blu rays

This isnt a very informative post, but I think apple blew it dragging their feet on the tv scene, and hyping up a set top box with decent hardware, and potential, but never any pay out since the 2015 model came out

I have to say, I love my current Apple TV and looking forward to the 4k model. I purchased a 4k TV the tail end of last year in preparation for the new Xbox One X and having another device optimized for 4k is promising. I'm probably not going to preorder but will definitely get it on its release day.

J

 

[Seb2k]

The 4K on YouTube is stellar.

Look for Rambalac on youtube, the guy trots around Tokyo with a rather substantial stabilised rig, some of the footage from the last month or so is incredible even without HDR.

For example