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Anyone else very disappointed with the 650m with 1GB
- Thread starter Samjohnson6
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Either way, car analogies are BS
You know... there are so many car analogies on here, yet no one even makes them interesting. No one has referenced the use of Pirelli tires over Firestone or made any obscure references to sway bars and exotic suspension designs. They're always just this one costs 10x more. At least that would be funny.
That's because of all the users who think their Apple products are worth 10x more than a comparable product from Sony or Samsung, even though they cost exactly the same. It's much more prevalent on the iPhone boards though.
Eww yuck rMBP is definitely not an RX-8, those things are hideous and I doubt they appeal to women. I would go for something more along the lines of an Aston Martin DBS.
I used the RX-8 because practically no other garage than a Mazda one can service/repair the rotary engine and a lesbian friend of mine thinks it was her ultimate pulling car when she tried one out.
Disclaimer: ALL car analogies are inaccurate and bull$#!t mine included.
Haha. On notebookreview.com I made a car analogy comparing the brand new XPS 15 to the MBP. I likened the XPS to a C6 Vette and the MBP to a Lamborghini Gallardo. Very comparable specs, with the Gallardo coming out a bit ahead, but for all intents and purposes they perform almost the same, expect the C6 is of course far, far cheaper. Got them all riled up over there. It was worth it.
I had an Alienware before I purchased this rMBP. It was the last gen of the M15x. I had it for 2 years until it started overheating in April of this year. I paid $2200 for the Alienware which was on sale for about $550 off the old MSRP price. After about a year and a half the m15x's fans started running non-stop full blast. Those fans are really loud. Much louder than the rMBP at full blast. To boot, the rMBP plays all games at higher res than the m15x, is quieter, almost a third as thin, and about 5 lbs lighter. Yes, FIVE pounds. The rMBP is thinner, lighter, and more powerful than the current gen m11x & m14x. Both of which have smaller screens (11" & 14").
The current gen m17x and m18x are "mobile desktops" not portables by any stretch of the imagination.
m17x dimensions:
Height: 44.5 mm (1.75 inches)
Depth: 304.30 mm (11.97 inches)
Width: 410 mm (16.14 inches)
Starting at weight: 4.26 kg (9.39 lbs)
m18x dimensions:
HeightFront: 53.00mm (2.09 inches)
Rear: 54.7mm (2.15 inches)
Depth: 322.50 mm (12.70 inches)
Width: 436.00 mm (17.17 inches)
Starting at weight: 5.41 kg (11.93 lbs)
With the base processor, 16GB of ram, and a 512GB SSD, the m18x is $3,849.00
The current gen m17x and m18x are "mobile desktops" not portables by any stretch of the imagination.
m17x dimensions:
Height: 44.5 mm (1.75 inches)
Depth: 304.30 mm (11.97 inches)
Width: 410 mm (16.14 inches)
Starting at weight: 4.26 kg (9.39 lbs)
m18x dimensions:
HeightFront: 53.00mm (2.09 inches)
Rear: 54.7mm (2.15 inches)
Depth: 322.50 mm (12.70 inches)
Width: 436.00 mm (17.17 inches)
Starting at weight: 5.41 kg (11.93 lbs)
With the base processor, 16GB of ram, and a 512GB SSD, the m18x is $3,849.00
SO you took the time to quote my 2 week old post, yet you didn't take the time to read it?
Re-read the part about the HD texture pack. That makes all the difference in the world.
Liking that comparison very much.
Anyway, no problems here with the gaming performance of the rmbp, but have only tested it with wow in orgrimmar, 15-20 fps on ultra bodes well.
Comparing the XPS 15 and the MBP is like comparing a 125cc chinese scooter to the new Honda NC 700 X DCT bike. Yes, both will bring you from A to B, and if you only commute 5km to your work every day, then the 50cc may be a better and more economical choice. Still, for all purposes of objectivity, such comparison is ultimately flawed.
P.S. I am a motorbike fan, I don't know anything about cars ^^
Erm, why are you comparing your TWO year old laptop with a new one? Of COURSE it will be better -_-
The RMBP is not meant as a gaming machine - it's an odd hybrid between a thin and light laptop (4.4 lbs) and a photo/video workstation (high-res IPS display, lots of very fast ports, big SSDs). If you CAN play games on it, so much the better, but Apple didn't have gaming in mind when they designed it - it was some mixture of designing a machine for the creative pro and showing off how much power they could pack into how small a case. Apple has such a trim product line that they don't make certain machines that would sell just fine if they existed. The most notorious is probably any non all-in-one desktop between the Mini and the Pro, but any machine (desktop OR laptop) aimed at gaming is another(perhaps deliberate) omission.
Even beyond the size and weight, the entire RMBP is an 85 watt machine. Some of the video cards alone in the big Clevo gaming "laptops" can draw that much! The most power-hungry of those machines use 300 watt power bricks!!! Give Apple a weight budget of 7-8 lbs and a power budget of 150 watts and they'll blow all those Clevos ( at 1.5 x the weight and twice the power)away, but Apple seems to think that that machine isn't worth building.
What Apple has built is a very capable contender in the HP EliteBook/ upper end Thinkpad space, with a 2 lb weight savings and 2/3 the power budget. They are competing with the most powerful true notebooks, not the notebook/desktop hybrids.
Even beyond the size and weight, the entire RMBP is an 85 watt machine. Some of the video cards alone in the big Clevo gaming "laptops" can draw that much! The most power-hungry of those machines use 300 watt power bricks!!! Give Apple a weight budget of 7-8 lbs and a power budget of 150 watts and they'll blow all those Clevos ( at 1.5 x the weight and twice the power)away, but Apple seems to think that that machine isn't worth building.
What Apple has built is a very capable contender in the HP EliteBook/ upper end Thinkpad space, with a 2 lb weight savings and 2/3 the power budget. They are competing with the most powerful true notebooks, not the notebook/desktop hybrids.
Ya my GTX 580 on my gaming PC can't even push games at 2560x1600 properly and people expect to have gaming quality MOBILE video card in a .71inch thick body.
People are stupid.
You have no idea what you are talking about dude. Skyrim isnt that hard on the computer.
And that vid IS with the texture pack. You F'ed up, get over it.
And there we go, a very nice example of my previous post:
Please get over yourself. A MacBook Pro is not worth several times more than a Dell XPS 15, and it is not several times better either. They're both excellent machines, unlike a 125cc Chinese scooter.
Well he's mostly talking about dimensions and weight which haven't changed much for Alienwares.
Alienware M17x with Ivy Bridge:
1.75" thick, 9.39 lbs, 90Wh battery
Alienware M14x with Ivy Bridge:
1.49" thick, 6.45 lbs, 63Wh battery
Alienware M11x with Sandy Bridge (not updated yet):
1.29" thick, 4.44lbs, 63Wh battery
MacBook Pro with Retina Display:
0.71" thick, 4.46 lbs, 95Wh battery
The M11x wins on weight but it only has a dual-core processor and GT540M so you're obviously not looking at the same level of performance. While being more powerful than a 11" MBA (2.38 pounds), it's much closer to its performance than that of the rMBP.
While it's true that a lot of posts are exaggerated in that regard, I think most people will agree that Macs and Apple products in general have a much nicer build quality than those of their competitors.
Luxury products (expensive watches, purses, cars, jewelry, etc.) that have a noticeably better build quality than most average products will usually cost you like 5-10x the price of the average "non-luxury" equivalent product that serves the same purpose.
Even if the "Apple tax" was, say, 50% (I'm exaggerating since most Apple products are pretty well priced at their launch), that would still be a bargain for what you feel is a luxury product.
A lot of people feel the same from going from a PC to a Mac that's 1.5x the price as if they jumped from a 50$ watch/purse to a 500$ watch/purse. It's the small details that define how luxurious a product is, not just the raw specs, otherwise people would basically never buy luxury products.
Even without limiting myself to electronics, I can hardly think of a product that's considered luxurious (materials, design, build quality, attention to details, fancy store, packaging, etc.) that is so cheap compared to its non-luxurious equivalent.
Of course, a lot of people don't care about the small details that define luxurious products, but for those who do, a Mac feels much more expensive than it is when you compare it to the competition an consider the usual pricing of luxury products.
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I own plenty of luxury products and indeed they are noticeably higher quality than a comparable product from a cheaper brand. This is because they cost ten or twenty times more. Apple products don't cost that much more, if they're even more, these days.
Have you taken a look and held one of the newer XPS or Envy products from Dell and HP? They are very similar in terms of quality- I was extremely impressed by my friend's new Envy Spectre. Dells and HPs are not the same cheap plasticky products that they used to churn out, at least, when you look at the products which are in the same price range as the MacBook Pros.
(of course, their $500 Best Buy specials are going to feel cheap, but that's not what I'm talking about here)
Didn't you just knock yourself there with your own quote?
No. In my post which I quoted there, I was talking about the number of Apple users who seem to believe that their $2000 product is somehow worth 10x more than a $2000 Dell or HP product.
'leman' was talking about how the MacBook is some fancy superbike while the Dell XPS 15 is a cheap 125cc scooter. He proved my point of how some Apple users think way too much of their products.
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Yup, PC makers are stepping their game up in that regard, but most people switching to a Mac previously had a PC laptop that's a couple of years old, so the switch feels like pure luxury. I think competitors are starting to take those details more seriously after seeing how Apple attracts way more new customers while not even being competitive in the most popular price range (500-600$ laptops). I think it's a pretty good thing for the industry! I haven't seen the Envy Spectre but I found my friend's ZenBook pretty impressive.
There's no doubt that Apple has influenced PC manufacturers to look at more than just the specs. Just take a look at the Asus Zenbook Prime- everything from the packaging to the design of the power brick looks and feels premium. Same story with the XPS and Envy series.
Even the cheaper computers look and feel decent now, I saw several HP Pavilion dv6 notebooks for well under a grand and those looked and felt very nice for the price.
Consumers have it implanted in their brains that PC = cheap plastic junk and Apple = durable diamond and glass premium products, if they'd take a look at what they could get from Asus/HP/Dell for the cost of their MacBook they'd be pretty surprised at what they'd get compared to their Compaq from 2003. But I guess those laptops don't have as much 'street cred' at Starbucks
Oh and BTW- the M11x wasn't updated to Ivy Bridge because it was discontinued. Rumor has it that they're working on a slimmer model or something like that.
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Of course it is worth more
It is much more mobile (significantly smaller and lighter), it has a much faster storage and a much faster GPU. In addition, it has an IPS screen. Of course you can't quantify the difference (like in MBP is n times better), but it is clear that the difference is substantial. I don't doubt that XPS is a nice machine and that both computers are more then adequate for many tasks (same way that the 125cc chinese scooter is more than adequate for urban commuting), but where do you draw the line? And its absolutely true that a retina MBP is an overkill for someone who only wants to check their emails twice a day - they would be more than happy with a netbook or similar. But it does not change the fact that if you just look through the specs (form factor, components, battery life), the MBP beats the XPS in every category. Does it justify the $800 higher price? That's up to you to decide. For me, it clearly does, as I carry my computer with me every day. And 0.6 kg less weight is totally worth an additional $20 a month to me.
Of course it is worth more
An XPS 15 is $1999 and a rMBP is $2199. The rMBP is worth $200 more. That's it. (even if you're just looking at the base XPS, the rMBP is not even 2x as much)
Assuming a cheap 125cc scooter (= XPS 15) is $1000 and the Honda superbike (= rMBP) is $7000 (sorry, I'm not much for a bike person- never did get the appeal), what you're saying is that the rMBP is worth 7 times as much.
That's where I take issue with your analogy. For that analogy to work, the rMBP would have to be $14,000, which it isn't, so no- an rMBP is not worth several times more than an XPS 15.
And this is exactly why analogies very rarely work, because you cannot directly compare a cell phone or laptop with a car or watch.
Personally, the rMBP fits me perfectly and is IMO a better computer than the XPS. But I don't try to kid myself into thinking it's worth 7 times more than the XPS 15 or any other decent computer on the market.
I see, it seems that I (or you, or we both) were confused. I would never say that rMBP is worth 7 times more, simply because this does not reflect the real price
I thought that you were suggesting that rMBP is a waste of money compared to the XPS, my only issue was with that suggestion. I am sorry if I misunderstood you.
I see, it seems that I (or you, or we both) were confused. I would never say that rMBP is worth 7 times more, simply because this does not reflect the real price
Certainly looks like there was a bit of misunderstanding!
If you re-read my reply, I was only referring to the bit about it being 'several times better', as that's a pretty common belief by many users. I don't doubt the rMBP is better for some people (like you and me), just not several times better.
Glad to have that cleared up then