Anyone feel like Lion is Apple's Windows Vista?

[glen e]

for the geeks I guess lion is bad, but for business users, I really can't see a lot of diff. I'm not into learning all the gestures so I can speed up my app switching 1/2 sec faster and other than that, don't see a big diff. I have two fellow business associates and they feel the same. If I did not get it with a new MBA I'd stay with SL. In fact, the guy I sold my old MBA to is also a MS office user and web person, and I told him not to bother upgrading...

I like full screen apps but would not pay 30 for that feature...I realize Lion is like an onion, but I'll never peel off more than the first two layers...

 

[h00ligan]

Yup. Insomuch as they will hammer things out an make them useful next time.

 

[Aduntu]

Actually he is spot on. This is coming from someone certified in Windows 7, Windows Vista and various Server OS's.

And now you're wrong as well, which doesn't say much for your certifications.

There are huge differences between the two operating systems -- anyone saying otherwise is clearly ignorant and/or misinformed.

 

[Tozzi]

I like full screen apps but would not pay 30 for that feature...I realize Lion is like an onion, but I'll never peel off more than the first two layers...

Full screen apps could be great, but the way these are implemented (rendering my second display useless), it's a bug and not a feature.
I do like Lion and most of its new features and would really like starting to use it on my production machine, but it's these little things, those few braindead, apparently completely untested "improvements" that ruin it for me.
I sure hope much of it will be addressed rather sooner than later.
For now, I'd be happy if my MBP stopped freezing every 3rd time or so it switches back to the integrated Intel graphics card. 'Nuff said.

 

[ocbizlaw]

Disappointing in some ways but not Apple's Vista by a long way

I switched my entire company to Mac after the Vista fiasco. Not exactly because of Vista alone but because of a series of Microsoft failures. The last straw was with Windows mobile on a Sprint iPhone knock-off called the "Diamond." First I bought a couple of of iPhones just to see whether they were worth the hype. They were. After spending a year trying to make Vista work, Windows 7 came out but it was over $100 for the upgrade. We bought it and Windows 7 worked pretty well. At the end of the day, though, we felt like Microsoft solid us a beta OS (Vista), wasted hundred hours of our time, then charged us an exorbitant price for Windows 7 which is what Vista should have been in the first place.

Now we are an all Apple office (Macbook Pros and Macbook Airs) and there is no way I'd ever go back to Microsoft, ever!

Having said that, Lion doesn't offer us much that we use over Snow Leopard and does have a weird memory leak of some sort when Safari is running. Still, we love "versions" and some of the other features. That said, calling is Apple's Vista is not an apt analogy.

 

[Trebuin]

This is worse than the Vista Fiasco. The developers should not be the beta testers, the professional beta testers should be the beta testers...now that it's released, everyone gets to see the bugs. Good news is it will be fixed.

Vista was horrible because it was built off a canned project. It was also the first 64 bit dedicated OS with 32 bit emulated...but few software and hardware vendors decided to build drivers until the final release. nVidia is a perfect example...their performance was about 30% what it should have been and caused massive graphics slowdowns and horrible benchmarks. Then there was Microsoft's new memory handling...use 100% of the memory through caching (it would also cache into the pagefile...which was hanging around 32 gigs for me). When I was doing my original testing of the OS, it took upwards of 10 mins to completely load the OS from boot...you had to disable superfetching, I think it was.

After the drivers were written, Vista actually could be tweaked to be a very good OS. SP1 incorporated some of the tweaks into Vista as well as bugs.

OSX lacks the user capable tweaking and I think the beta testing system is a bit more broken. That being said, they can fix it fast as they're not building multiple OS's at the same time...they can actually commit.

 

[derekamoss]

This is worse than the Vista Fiasco. The developers should not be the beta testers, the professional beta testers should be the beta testers...now that it's released, everyone gets to see the bugs. Good news is it will be fixed.

Vista was horrible because it was built off a canned project. It was also the first 64 bit dedicated OS with 32 bit emulated...but few software and hardware vendors decided to build drivers until the final release. nVidia is a perfect example...their performance was about 30% what it should have been and caused massive graphics slowdowns and horrible benchmarks. Then there was Microsoft's new memory handling...use 100% of the memory through caching (it would also cache into the pagefile...which was hanging around 32 gigs for me). When I was doing my original testing of the OS, it took upwards of 10 mins to completely load the OS from boot...you had to disable superfetching, I think it was.

After the drivers were written, Vista actually could be tweaked to be a very good OS. SP1 incorporated some of the tweaks into Vista as well as bugs.

OSX lacks the user capable tweaking and I think the beta testing system is a bit more broken. That being said, they can fix it fast as they're not building multiple OS's at the same time...they can actually commit.

Apple does not beta test OS X to the Developers. We get the seeds because we need to be ready for changes. There is an actual Apple Beta Tester program and its called Appleseed. So it is not just developers who are using the system beforehand.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Infinitely worse than Vista. Vista at least worked if you had a system that could run it. Lion is just really bad UI design decisions that seem to have been made simply to add bulletpoints when they said what Lion could do. I'm happy it's only 29.99, because i'd be embarrassed to admit paying more than that.

Vista didn't work...what halcyon dreams have you succumbed to? My mother upgraded to Vista and promptly had her scanner and printer stop working. It took Fujitsu months to deliver a Vista driver.

Vista was slow and Aero looked like ass.

Lion has had well over a million copies downloaded and the most people can complain about are NAS drivers failing? LOL...that whopping majority. Anyone following the development would have told you that SMB was rewritten in Lion.

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/24/apple-to-drop-samba-networking-tools-from-lion/

Way back in March. Everyone on these boards has a ********n computer and some of you are still to GD lazy to do research.

Lion has a Cloud architecture embedded deep into their API
They got Auto Save, Resume and Versions working nicely
Entire drive Encryption
Delta changes
improved memory management with LLVC and Auto Reference Counting

 

[tom5304]

Vista didn't work...what halcyon dreams have you succumbed to? My mother upgraded to Vista and promptly had her scanner and printer stop working.

I "upgraded" to Lion and my Wifi stopped working, along with basic Finder functions slowing to a grinding beachball.

 

[derekamoss]

I "upgraded" to Lion and my Wifi stopped working, along with basic Finder functions slowing to a grinding beachball.

And how many add ons do you have running? This is what people don't get. Almost all the bugs in ANY OS upgrade is because the user has modified something in the system. Don't blame the OS, blame yourself.

 

[GuerillaTech]

Vista didn't work...what halcyon dreams have you succumbed to? My mother upgraded to Vista and promptly had her scanner and printer stop working. It took Fujitsu months to deliver a Vista driver.

See, you just said it yourself, it wasn't Vista or Microsoft's fault, it was Fujitsu's fault for not having drivers ready.

 

[tom5304]

And how many add ons do you have running? This is what people don't get. Almost all the bugs in ANY OS upgrade is because the user has modified something in the system. Don't blame the OS, blame yourself.

My only "add-on" was OSX 10.7 Lion.

Without meaning to, you just proved my point. You say all the bugs in any OS upgrade is (sic) due to the user modifying something in the system. Well, my only modification was the addition of a new OS called Lion.

So you're saying I should blame myself for installing OSX 10.7?

Airport has been running fine for me for years under Snow Leopard. Lion has broken Wifi for many people, if you'll open your eyes to reality.

 

[mark28]

And how many add ons do you have running? This is what people don't get. Almost all the bugs in ANY OS upgrade is because the user has modified something in the system. Don't blame the OS, blame yourself.

You can't modify OS X. It's a closed system, it's not Linux.

Even with a clean install with nothing installed, it still had issues.

I rather use Windows Vista on my 4 year old PC laptop than using Lion on this Mac.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I "upgraded" to Lion and my Wifi stopped working, along with basic Finder functions slowing to a grinding beachball.

Whoa! De Ja Vu

Good luck on getting those problems fixed. It doesn't sound like a widespread problem but that matters little to those affected.

See, you just said it yourself, it wasn't Vista or Microsoft's fault, it was Fujitsu's fault for not having drivers ready.

Yup I was more frustrated by the laziness of Fujitsu and others who didn't have their drivers ready but Vista was bloated and slow and didn't resemble the grand architecture that Microsoft had laid out.

You can't modify OS X. It's a closed system, it's not Linux.

Even with a clean install with nothing installed, it still had issues.

I rather use Windows Vista on my 4 year old PC laptop than using Lion on this Mac.

Mark explain your claims of OS X being a closed system when the foundation is BSD Unix. It can't be closed ..you can run Unix apps ..even the Command Line do just about everything that Linux can do. OS X has a proprietary display (Quartz) though it heavily leverages PDF which is somewhat open.

Almost 17 thousand reviews on the Mac App Store and Lion is garnering a 4.5 star rating. I, along with probably at least 10 thousand Lion users, would probably disagree with the notion that it is in any way "Vista like"

 

[mark28]

Whoa! De Ja Vu

Good luck on getting those problems fixed. It doesn't sound like a widespread problem but that matters little to those affected.



Yup I was more frustrated by the laziness of Fujitsu and others who didn't have their drivers ready but Vista was bloated and slow and didn't resemble the grand architecture that Microsoft had laid out.



Mark explain your claims of OS X being a closed system when the foundation is BSD Unix. It can't be closed ..you can run Unix apps ..even the Command Line do just about everything that Linux can do. OS X has a proprietary display (Quartz) though it heavily leverages PDF which is somewhat open.

Almost 17 thousand reviews on the Mac App Store and Lion is garnering a 4.5 star rating. I, along with probably at least 10 thousand Lion users, would probably disagree with the notion that it is in any way "Vista like"

Polls are meaningless, Bush ( the worst President in history ) got reelected by 300 million people.

As of now, Windows Vista simply works, just like SL just works. Lion is not as good as these 2 OS yet. It might be later when 10.7.1 is released.

 

[derekamoss]

You can't modify OS X. It's a closed system, it's not Linux.

Even with a clean install with nothing installed, it still had issues.

I rather use Windows Vista on my 4 year old PC laptop than using Lion on this Mac.

Are you serious? You thing you can't modify an OS just because it isn't public licensed? You must be computer illiterate. Have you downloaded programs that added extra features to the finder, iChat, iTunes, Mail or Safari? Downloaded a program that changes anything in the dock? If so you have modified the system. I just use an application as is. I haven't done any haxies, or downloaded programs that added features to applications. Because of that my OS upgrades have always gone smoothly.

 

[2499723]

This is not Apple's Vista, despite nagging irritations. I hope updates will sort those problems out, though I imagine some will linger on into the next couple years without resolution. IMHO, it's still a step up from SL.

 

[CapnJackGig]

Vista didn't work...what halcyon dreams have you succumbed to? My mother upgraded to Vista and promptly had her scanner and printer stop working. It took Fujitsu months to deliver a Vista driver.

Vista was slow and Aero looked like ass.

Lion has had well over a million copies downloaded and the most people can complain about are NAS drivers failing? LOL...that whopping majority. Anyone following the development would have told you that SMB was rewritten in Lion.

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/24/apple-to-drop-samba-networking-tools-from-lion/

Way back in March. Everyone on these boards has a ********n computer and some of you are still to GD lazy to do research.

Lion has a Cloud architecture embedded deep into their API
They got Auto Save, Resume and Versions working nicely
Entire drive Encryption
Delta changes
improved memory management with LLVC and Auto Reference Counting

Yeah yeah, I get it, fanboys don't like the assertion that Lion is worse than Vista. We get it. Let the adults talk.

 

[KaPOWitsCHRIS]

No. Lion is the best OS I've ever used.

 

[KPOM]

See, you just said it yourself, it wasn't Vista or Microsoft's fault, it was Fujitsu's fault for not having drivers ready.

One difference, though, is that Microsoft had much-ballyhooed "Windows Vista Ready" and "Designed for Vista" programs, and lots of PC makers slapped the lesser "Windows Vista Ready" sticker on lots of PCs that clearly weren't "ready" for Vista. This confused customers who wondered why Aero didn't work, or why their peripherals had issues.

 

[Queen6]

Nope, Lion is working well for me, it`s a .0 release, with a differing GUI so there will be plenty of noise. Personally I like Lion, I do miss spaces, then again as more software is released with fullscreen this will dissipate and no doubt Apple will come up with a solution for muti-screen all in all I do feel that Lion is a signifiant advancement.

Ten programs running in full screen, ten spaces and no discernible slow down, Lion will evolve and a year from now no one will remember the fuss. Much the same was said on Snow Leopard on release. I will shortly swap out my primary Mac for the new system with Lion, once 10.7.1 is released, the 10.7.0 system will become the backup, as for the present primary on 10.6.8 it will be retired to one of the family having more than paid for it`s self

I dont realistically expect my 4.1 2.4GHz, 5400rpm HD MacBook Pro to compete with i5/i7 machines that are designed from the ground up to run SSD, do you? Lion is the start, just wait for the next generation of MacBook pro`s...

 

[Bunker]

LION, after all, is not the Vista of Apple.

I had it installed, upgraded from Snow Leopard for just over 1 week now.

The first 3 days was full of grudges.... it made me feel like it's definitely the Vista of Apple.

Funny thing is, I don't find so many broken things like Vista did. What's broken for me:

- NAS. (Fixed with firmware update)
- WIFI (still dropping out occasionally... now, I wonder it's my new Cisco E4200 or Lion..)
- Mail (stupid rules doesn't work all the time!!! Those were from Snow Leopard)
- iSync (got it back from Time Machine backup of my Snow Leopard).


What appear as broken, but more like broken user experience and needed retraining:
- Natural scroll (got used to it after just 2 days)
- 2x2 spaces gone.... #(*$(*....
- Dashboard had gone to a full screen... hmm.. I can switch it back but so far I like it on another screen...
- Slow response... aha... first 3 days of indexing by spotlight really takes it toll.. now it's A-OK.


In fact, the Lion response faster in most area compared to Snow Leopard, but you need to give it time to "load" into memory first. This is a step backward compared to Snow Leopard.

Changing input language is a pain. in Snow Leopard, it's already slow and not instantaneous when you hit CMD-Space to switch language. It's WORST in Lion. Calling up the hand writing pad is a hit-miss event. Now, this gets to my nerve.

Other than that, since it didn't have that many broken things like what Vista had broken... I would say it is NOT the Vista of Apple

 

[belltree]

Two words - "Save As". WTF Apple?

 

[OW22]

Have to say, big fan of Lion right here. Was wary of installing it as SL was running flawlessly so kept SL on a partition.

Haven't looked back since installing Lion. Love the slickness of it and no issues for me at all. Wifi OK. sleep mode, no performance lags. It's fast and I like Mission Control and the gestures.

 

[TPadden]

No. Lion is the best OS I've ever used.

Posts like this have caused me to format and clean install Lion 3 times; my actual experience with a 2010 MBA w/ 4gb has me once again recovered back to SL.

If nothing else is comparable between the two ...... I did the same thing with Vista but at least going back to the previous OS is much easier with OS X .