Good post. I think the iPhone has a bigger screen. I want the Pre but dont think I can handle a smaller screen than I am used to!
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Anyone here buying a Pre?
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Good post. I think the iPhone has a bigger screen. I want the Pre but dont think I can handle a smaller screen than I am used to!
I've been debating this whole issue about whether I stay with my 3G or get the Pre. Here's the calculus, which definitely, thus far, favors the iPhone:
Favors iPhone:
1. Storage- 16 gig (or 32 rumored on new) versus 8 on Pre- Just music and contacts take up 5.4 gig on present iPhone- leaves very little room on Pre for apps, data, etc. since it only has about 7 available.
2. Touchscreen- when wanting to type on screen this is available on iPhone. Not available on Pre. (I know- someone will make an app for the Pre to do this- but this is not something that is sure to happen, or if so, when). Pulling out the keyboard every time I want to type a web address without an option to just do so onscreen seems annoying.
3. Visual voicemail- Great on iPhone- apparently not available on Pre. This is a nice feature.
4. Use of phone/email and/or web at same time- Can do on iPhone. Cannot do on Pre- on the CDMA Pre can't be on phone and surfing at same time.
5. Ability to expand coverage footprint- Sprint is in poor financial condition and lacks the resources presently to invest in its networks that AT&T and Verizon possess. While it is going into WIMAX, it will be a long time (and Pre can't use anyway).
6. App Availability- Lots of apps available now, plus worldwide presence of iPhone draws lots of new apps.
7. Rural coverage- Far better with AT&T (but see Favors Pre item below).
8. Mac Syncing- Ability to sync natively with Mac without using cloud (however, see Unclear item below).
9. Proven Nature of Device- Pre is a 1.0 device (and still at this point vaporware until we get to see it in real life), iPhone now in 3.0 testing- Will the Pre work great on 1.0 or be full of bugs? I have the iPhone 3.0 beta and it works great.
10. Grief from wife- If I line up for the Pre I'll get the same grief I got when lining up for the iPhone about why I waste our money on new toys.
11. 1900 MHz coverage of Sprint does not penetrate as well into buildings- Much of AT&T's network is in the lower cellular band when much more easily goes into buildings.
12. Apple has the cash to continue to grow the line and innovate- Palm on life support. I know, some will say Apple has not really innovated.
13. Use of phone while on usb charging- Can do on iPhone- can't on Pre (but see Unclear).
Favors Pre:
1. Multi-tasking.
2. Qwerty slide-out keyboard- it would be nice to have.
3. Rural coverage- Poor with Sprint, but get to roam on Verizon/ALLTEL who have very good rural coverage, especially here in the Southeast.
4. 3G roaming- when out of Sprint market, can 3G roam on Verizon/ALLTEL- most of Verizon's network is now 3G, even in rural areas. A big plus.
5. Boredom- Ready for New Geek Toy- I am getting bored with iPhone- new need toy. Pre would be it.
6. Grief from wife- The grief passes fast.
7. Wireless induction charging- This would be nice, especially when it is available in the car.
8. Sprint and Pre are the underdogs- Underdogs usually work hard to prove they are better.
9. Wireless plans cheaper on Pre (but there are rumored AT&T pricing cuts coming).
Unclear:
1. Mac syncing- Sprint tells me Pre won't sync to the Mac- but will be Mark Sync available. Probably not a big deal- I sync through Exchange Server anyway.
2. iTunes music- how will I import them to Pre?
3. Will Palm survive to support the Pre and update?- Will Palm be around several years from now? Unless the Pre is a huge success they are on life support now. Even with a Pre success they are in such a deep financial hole they are a hobbled company.
4. Lots of legacy Palm Apps- But How Long to Update to Run on Pre Natively Without Emulation?
5. Sound level and quality on Pre versus iPhone- The iPhone's sound quality on the phone is good, but the sound level is way too low. Unknown what the Pre's output level and quality will be.
6. Video capability- iPhone rumored to have it in new iPhone in June, Palm says it is not in the Pre, but hints it will be coming.
7. Phone quality of Pre- unknown.
8. Music store for Pre- how good it is as compared to iTunes?
9. Music syncing- How will I sync it with my computer music since Mac is not supported?
Reasons Given for Pre that Aren't Good Reasons:
1. Sprint is going 4G- meaningless because the Pre can't handle 4G (at least that we know).
2. Sprint has much faster 3G and a better network in general than AT&T- I hear this claim a lot. In my experience so far, AT&T's network in many places (and here in Carolinas) has been great. Plus I routinely get 1.3 to 1.7 speeds on downloads on AT&T on iPhone. AT&T is rapidly expanding its 3G coverage. Hardly ever have dropped calls on AT&T. Others in other markets might have a different experience, so I could see how this item could be different for them.
Favors iPhone:
1. Storage- 16 gig (or 32 rumored on new) versus 8 on Pre- Just music and contacts take up 5.4 gig on present iPhone- leaves very little room on Pre for apps, data, etc. since it only has about 7 available.
2. Touchscreen- when wanting to type on screen this is available on iPhone. Not available on Pre. (I know- someone will make an app for the Pre to do this- but this is not something that is sure to happen, or if so, when). Pulling out the keyboard every time I want to type a web address without an option to just do so onscreen seems annoying.
3. Visual voicemail- Great on iPhone- apparently not available on Pre. This is a nice feature.
4. Use of phone/email and/or web at same time- Can do on iPhone. Cannot do on Pre- on the CDMA Pre can't be on phone and surfing at same time.
5. Ability to expand coverage footprint- Sprint is in poor financial condition and lacks the resources presently to invest in its networks that AT&T and Verizon possess. While it is going into WIMAX, it will be a long time (and Pre can't use anyway).
6. App Availability- Lots of apps available now, plus worldwide presence of iPhone draws lots of new apps.
7. Rural coverage- Far better with AT&T (but see Favors Pre item below).
8. Mac Syncing- Ability to sync natively with Mac without using cloud (however, see Unclear item below).
9. Proven Nature of Device- Pre is a 1.0 device (and still at this point vaporware until we get to see it in real life), iPhone now in 3.0 testing- Will the Pre work great on 1.0 or be full of bugs? I have the iPhone 3.0 beta and it works great.
10. Grief from wife- If I line up for the Pre I'll get the same grief I got when lining up for the iPhone about why I waste our money on new toys.
11. 1900 MHz coverage of Sprint does not penetrate as well into buildings- Much of AT&T's network is in the lower cellular band when much more easily goes into buildings.
12. Apple has the cash to continue to grow the line and innovate- Palm on life support. I know, some will say Apple has not really innovated.
13. Use of phone while on usb charging- Can do on iPhone- can't on Pre (but see Unclear).
Favors Pre:
1. Multi-tasking.
2. Qwerty slide-out keyboard- it would be nice to have.
3. Rural coverage- Poor with Sprint, but get to roam on Verizon/ALLTEL who have very good rural coverage, especially here in the Southeast.
4. 3G roaming- when out of Sprint market, can 3G roam on Verizon/ALLTEL- most of Verizon's network is now 3G, even in rural areas. A big plus.
5. Boredom- Ready for New Geek Toy- I am getting bored with iPhone- new need toy. Pre would be it.
6. Grief from wife- The grief passes fast.
7. Wireless induction charging- This would be nice, especially when it is available in the car.
8. Sprint and Pre are the underdogs- Underdogs usually work hard to prove they are better.
9. Wireless plans cheaper on Pre (but there are rumored AT&T pricing cuts coming).
Unclear:
1. Mac syncing- Sprint tells me Pre won't sync to the Mac- but will be Mark Sync available. Probably not a big deal- I sync through Exchange Server anyway.
2. iTunes music- how will I import them to Pre?
3. Will Palm survive to support the Pre and update?- Will Palm be around several years from now? Unless the Pre is a huge success they are on life support now. Even with a Pre success they are in such a deep financial hole they are a hobbled company.
4. Lots of legacy Palm Apps- But How Long to Update to Run on Pre Natively Without Emulation?
5. Sound level and quality on Pre versus iPhone- The iPhone's sound quality on the phone is good, but the sound level is way too low. Unknown what the Pre's output level and quality will be.
6. Video capability- iPhone rumored to have it in new iPhone in June, Palm says it is not in the Pre, but hints it will be coming.
7. Phone quality of Pre- unknown.
8. Music store for Pre- how good it is as compared to iTunes?
9. Music syncing- How will I sync it with my computer music since Mac is not supported?
Reasons Given for Pre that Aren't Good Reasons:
1. Sprint is going 4G- meaningless because the Pre can't handle 4G (at least that we know).
2. Sprint has much faster 3G and a better network in general than AT&T- I hear this claim a lot. In my experience so far, AT&T's network in many places (and here in Carolinas) has been great. Plus I routinely get 1.3 to 1.7 speeds on downloads on AT&T on iPhone. AT&T is rapidly expanding its 3G coverage. Hardly ever have dropped calls on AT&T. Others in other markets might have a different experience, so I could see how this item could be different for them.
That's still company-controlled marketing - I'm sure they're aren't going to show anything that is a drawback, and it's common knowledge that prototype models may often feature better options than what's available to the public.
I'm not saying it's going to flop, or wont live up to it's forecast, but I'd be surprised if it does. Things rarely do.
I think the Pre will be the last gasp of a once-great company's death spiral. Doesn't matter how good the Pre actually is -- it'll likely be too late to save the company.
Palm once defined the handheld market, and owned it for several years, but they lost it due to a lack of innovation and decrease in quality. If you want a collector's item, buy a Pre
Palm once defined the handheld market, and owned it for several years, but they lost it due to a lack of innovation and decrease in quality. If you want a collector's item, buy a Pre
It will come down to the iPhone 4.0 and the GSM updated Pre the winter after next for me. Hell maybe I'll be able to hold out until iPhone 5.0 and the Pre 3!
More memory
Ann app store with 30 000 applications and a billion downloads
Better accessories
More developers
Bigger userbase
I love my iPhone 3G and I will openly admit that although I do not want a Pre, I think it is by far the best rival to the iPhone to date. Its GUI is very nicely designed. Yes probably because former Apple employees worked on it, but that is besides the point!
P.S. I also like it because it gives Apple competition to keep the iPhone cutting edge and ahead of everyone else.
App store: 30,000 apps, a large majority are duplicates (either by functionality or actual apps that are virtually duplicates). For example, the "books" section of the app store is 4,600 apps. Then you've got how many fart apps, how many flashlight apps, how many wikipedia apps, how many tip calculators, etc. The games section probably makes up 1/3 of the app store alone - of which the Pre (and smart-phones in general) don't compete. It's clear that Palm isn't interested in competing with iPhone OS games, which tend to compete more with hand-held gaming systems (just look at what Nintendo is doing with the DSI and the recent article about the PSP). There are also duplicate apps from the same developer but for different regions, cities, etc. For example, in the weather section:
That is just one of a hundred examples. In-app purchasing should make that method obsolete (they can sell one weather app and you can buy individuals cities from within). Will they consolidate the apps such as this that are already there though? Well, it's Apple, so I doubt it.
Furthermore, all the "big name" apps will soon be on every platform so it won't matter which device you buy. In fact, the iPhone versions of them are likely to be the least powerful of any of them. Slingbox on the iPhone is the only one that won't work over 3G. Pandora on the iPhone is the only one that can't play in the background. The list goes on and on.
Finally, the "billion apps downloaded" number is a joke. Pinch Media tracks iPhone app usage, and has published that only 1% of downloaded apps are used after thirty days. 80% of downloaded apps are deleted after the first day! Not that they weren't run after the first day, not that they weren't synced to the iPhoen after the first day - completely deleted. Also, during the countdown to a billion promotion, many people who didn't even own an iPhone or iPod Touch were downloading 25 apps per day.
Accessories: really? Everything has accessories. I do admit with the support for accessories in 3.0 that can have their own touch interface when connected will probably lead to some interesting products. We'll see how useful they turn out to be.
More developers: just plain wrong. *I* can practically develop for the Pre right now as I know a fair amount of javascript and HTML. My apps wouldn't be pretty, but I have coded some complicated pages before. Many more people know the languages to code for the Pre and 85% of the industry will be able to use the SDK (considering you have to have a Mac to use the iPhone's SDK and it has a 12% marketshare).
Bigger userbase: obviously. The Pre hasn't been released yet, how much of a userbase can it be expected to have?
Unfortunately no, but this guy has:
Only half the story. Lower frequency provides a theoretical advantage for RF propagation through materials such as concrete. In practice however, one must factor the power, proximity of base station, interference, etc.
In the NYC market, Sprint's use of 1900 MHz has not affected its ability to provide excellent service indoors (and outdoors). I've almost always experienced better service on my Sprint BlackBerry 8330 than my iPhone 3G (in both 2/3 G modes). Sprint's network is far more mature than AT&Ts in the NYC market.
AT&T is in the process of overlaying select markets (where licensed and approved) with 850 MHz. Otherwise, AT&T is still using 1900 MHz. Certain portions of NYC have had 850 MHz for months now, and I can certify that indeed signal quality and strength is better. Download and upload speeds remain the same.
AT&Ts deployment of 850 MHz, speed upgrade to 7.2 Mbps (theoretical), implementation of load-balancing (N-SET) systems, upgrade and tweaking of base station baseband, and increase of 3G footprint will all take some time.
Sprint is currently at an advantage in terms of network speed, quality, reliability, and 3G (EV-DO) footprint. Based on current network investment, AT&Ts network will take 1-2 years to beat Sprint's 3G network.
You're right....bummer. I will keep my iphone until I can get the pre September 1st, but for 450 minutes, iphone data plan, and unlimited texting, the grand total comes to $90. For unlimited everything on Sprint, the total is $100. A comparable plan on AT&T is $150. I just can't deal with that. Paying the $90/month for the next 3 months is going to hurt me practically and my wallet, but I have a 6 hour round trip commute and need data!
huh?
Organizer in 3.0?? not that I know of
Multitasking in 3.0?? definitely not
Notifications in 3.0? yes, although the implementation is absolute **** compared to palm's
Any iPhone lover should know though: a spec list is useless. iPhone's specs suck compared to other devices but it is still the best one out there at the moment. You have to actually USE (or watch someone use) the Pre OS to realize how superior it is. (e.g.: "synergy" among other things)
I need more than 3 hours out of the battery, so no.
This is just an assumption based on the multitasking of the Pre. Notice they have never once said what the battery life will be. Even on their official spec list for the Pre, Palm curiously leaves out any mention of battery life (How can you really buy a cell phone not knowing its battery life? Not even an estimate? Simply amazing.)
I think you'll hear a lot of "the Pre is a nice device, but it's dead within a few hours!"
Here's the official spec list -- no battery life mentioned anywhere:
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/
I get 8 hours of actual usage of my iPhone 3G per charge. I usually charge it every other day
This is just an assumption based on the multitasking of the Pre. Notice they have never once said what the battery life will be. Even on their official spec list for the Pre, Palm curiously leaves out any mention of battery life (How can you really buy a cell phone not knowing its battery life? Not even an estimate? Simply amazing.)
I think you'll hear a lot of "the Pre is a nice device, but it's dead within a few hours!"
Here's the official spec list -- no battery life mentioned anywhere:
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/
I get 8 hours of actual usage of my iPhone 3G per charge. I usually charge it every other day
That's a good call.. "The Mystery of the dog who barked in the night."I need more than 3 hours out of the battery, so no.
This is just an assumption based on the multitasking of the Pre. Notice they have never once said what the battery life will be. Even on their official spec list for the Pre, Palm curiously leaves out any mention of battery life (How can you really buy a cell phone not knowing its battery life? Not even an estimate? Simply amazing.)
I think you'll hear a lot of "the Pre is a nice device, but it's dead within a few hours!"
Here's the official spec list -- no battery life mentioned anywhere:
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/
I get 8 hours of actual usage of my iPhone 3G per charge. I usually charge it every other day
Considering that the majority of tech companies like to tout good battery life, this is actually kind of interesting.
I'm an iPhone user that is switching to the Pre the day it's released. I just can't take AT&T's inferior network any longer. Sprint isn't the best, but it's a big jump ahead of AT&T that's for sure. I'm worried about battery life, along with a lot of other Pre fanboys but I think it will be good.
My cousin is a Sprint retail employee who is also an iPhone user (he doesn't tell his boss). He told me about his experience with the Pre and said it was awesome in every which way. He stated battery life was still very strong after playing with it for several hours, so I'm optimistic about battery life.
Nothing will kill the iPhone. God himself would release a cell phone and plenty of people will still use the iPhone.
My cousin is a Sprint retail employee who is also an iPhone user (he doesn't tell his boss). He told me about his experience with the Pre and said it was awesome in every which way. He stated battery life was still very strong after playing with it for several hours, so I'm optimistic about battery life.
Nothing will kill the iPhone. God himself would release a cell phone and plenty of people will still use the iPhone.
The main reasons I am not interested in the pre are as follows.
The media player and its integration into iTunes. My entire media collection resides in iTunes so being able to interact with it is a big plus.
Keyboard. I hate the idea of a physical keyboard and no on screen keyboard. Browsing the web or any landscape text entry is impossible on the pre. Plus I type plenty fast with the virtual keyboard and see no need for a hardware one.
Apps. The limited web style apps didnt suffice for the iPhone and they wont for the Pre either.
The media player and its integration into iTunes. My entire media collection resides in iTunes so being able to interact with it is a big plus.
Keyboard. I hate the idea of a physical keyboard and no on screen keyboard. Browsing the web or any landscape text entry is impossible on the pre. Plus I type plenty fast with the virtual keyboard and see no need for a hardware one.
Apps. The limited web style apps didnt suffice for the iPhone and they wont for the Pre either.
So what? Duplicates provide competition and choice.
Moreover, you're attacking the particular number (30,000) rather than addressing the real point of the argument, which is that apple's app store offers variety, quality, and perhaps most importantly, ease of use that's as-yet unmatched on any other platform.
Nonsense. Many of the app store's greatest gems come from individual developers.
That has nothing to do with anything. A billion apps have in fact been downloaded, so how are you taking issue with that number based on the fact that they were later deleted? That's a separate issue.
But since you mention it - what do you think that proves? What *I* think it proves is that there's so much variety and such great ease of use that people try out tons of apps just for the hell of it. I've downloaded and deleted a lot of apps on my iphone - I keep the very best and ditch the rest.
and if an anonymous poster on the internet said it, that pretty much ends the debate! (no offense to the guy who posted that - I appreciate your review. I'm just saying, relying on one unknown 3rd party's assessment is an interesting way to go about evaluating products.)
Where *you* live, maybe. Why do people always forget that caveat? Cell phone companies ALL have their better and worse areas. AT&T is just great in both DC and Boston.
Perhaps if you could follow a thread, you would understand I was replying to a post that was touting the 30,000 apps number as something impressive.
Duplicates don't offer competition and choice when they are the same apps by the same developer for different regions or functions. The app stores for every device will offer variety, "quality" is subjective, and ease-of-use is already matched by BlackBerry and will be by Palm when the Pre launches.
Such as? Shazaam, Pandora, Last.fm, AIM, Twitterific, Skype, Fring, Facebook, Yahoo Messenger, Flixster, Fandango, Mint, Stitcher radio, AP News, Evernote, Amazon, Google, ESPN, MLB at Bat - all popular apps that are available on other platforms. Despite what you may think, it is hardly "nonesense" that the same apps will be available on more than one platform.
How can it have nothing to do with anything if it was in response to a billion apps downloaded being touted as some kind of advantage? But you are right, a billion apps downloaded is indeed meaningless.
1) That how many apps have been downloaded is a meaningless statistic, and
2) That 99% of app store apps are essentially useless. It doesn't matter if people try apps out just because of variety or it's easy to download them. Quoting 30,000 available apps as an advantage implies that it is quality. When 99% of downloaded apps get deleted within a month (80% within a day), it says to me there are 99 gimmicks to every 1 useful app. Do you know what 1% of 30,000 apps is? If the statistically average person downloaded EVERY single app from the app store, they would end up keeping 300 of them.
That addresses what you call the "real point of the argument" in that the app store offers quality and variety - in 300 apps. Of course, you missed the real point entirely, which is 30,000 available apps was quoted as an advantge of the iPhone when in fact that number has very little value.
It does make his opinion of the Pre and it's comparison to the iPhone much more valid than yours or mine, however.
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I could respond point by point again, but honestly, it isn't worth the time. The point is simple - show me a single other platform that has anything approaching the app store in overall value - meaning taking in to account variety, quality, price, ease of use - everything. Take your time thinking of one.
I could respond point by point again, but honestly, it isn't worth the time. The point is simple - show me a single other platform that has anything approaching the app store in overall value - meaning taking in to account variety, quality, price, ease of use - everything. Take your time thinking of one.
It's a tough call for me... my Sprint contract is up in July, by which time the Pre and the new iPhone will be out. I need to see what transpires. I am concerned about the Pre syncing with my MBP, and know that the iPhone will be great in that department. The Pre looks pretty damn cool though, and also, in Colorado Sprint coverage is great, and ATT 3g sucks from what I've been told. It's gonna be a tough call for me, we'll see what transpires.
I don't understand, this should be a no brainer.
Both AT&T and Sprint are terrible service providers, so actual call quality if gonna be below average.
iPhone has better Appstore, larger screen (possibly OLED)
Palm Pre has better multitasking and other features.
So just buy a Palm Pre as a phone and a iPod Touch for another great device. You'll have the best of both worlds and know you are truly better than everyone else.
Both AT&T and Sprint are terrible service providers, so actual call quality if gonna be below average.
iPhone has better Appstore, larger screen (possibly OLED)
Palm Pre has better multitasking and other features.
So just buy a Palm Pre as a phone and a iPod Touch for another great device. You'll have the best of both worlds and know you are truly better than everyone else.
^ If I could afford to do that I would, but all I can swing is one device, and I need a new phone, so It's either the Pre or the iPhone. My HTC Mogul is a P.O.S. and is about to die, so we'll see. I'm also concerned with buying a 1st generation product in the Pre, so that will factor into my decision as well.
No matter what, I'm anxiously awaiting for the Pre release, and for WWDC.
No matter what, I'm anxiously awaiting for the Pre release, and for WWDC.