Apollo Now Offers Option to Decline Refund Ahead of June 30 Shutdown

[boss.king]

Can you explain how he hid ads? I was under the impression that wasn’t possible and would be interested in the details.

He didn't. Reddit's API doesn't serve ads. Any Reddit app that included ads were ads run by the dev themselves, who would collect all the ad revenue with none going to Reddit. There are a lot of people in this thread just making stuff up because they either don't know what they're talking about or they purposefully want to mislead others.

 

[atokads]

Can you explain how he hid ads? I was under the impression that wasn’t possible and would be interested in the details.

I believe you are correct. The API did not serve any Reddit ads.

There some other apps - RIF was one - that served their own ads, and that was one of the ways they made money

 

[goodbye_harmony]

You can always gauge the scumminess of any given company by the quality of people willing to prostrate themselves and get reamed in public defending it.

 

[anoobis]

And Apollo makes money purely from being bought on the App Store, not from calling reddit's APIs. If I buy the app and never even open it, Apollo still makes $$$.

The advertisement pays because people visit the site, and people visit the site because of...the content that they don't pay anything for.

Your mental gymnastics don't work, sorry.

not correct

Apollo was free to download and use. It was not “bought on the App Store” and he would not make money if you never opened it.

There were paid upgrades.

 

[GizmoDVD]

How soon before we get a new Apollo app that is a higher priced version and adhering to Reddits policy? 2 months? 3?

 

[anoobis]

They’ve also been caught lying.

what was the lie(s)?

 

[anoobis]

Reddit lied and tried to destroy Apollo/Christian's image, but Christian kept the receipts from his phone calls and talks with Reddit.

what did Reddit lie about? Ive listened to the recorded calls.

 

[bgillander]

What I don't get is why Apple is letting people sell "lifetime" subscriptions to anything, when nothing in the app space can ever possibly last a "lifetime"

If he'd gotten hit by a car, would his estate suddenly owe $250k?

How would he even "complete" such a contract? Live longer than all his customers? Make sure that Reddit never goes bust? Make sure Apple is still making iPhones in 2050?

Apple needs to ban lifetime subs, or make them incredibly clear that they're for the lifetime of the app which could disappear tomorrow so buyer beware.

Yeah, lifetime means you pay once, so it is the lifetime of the app. It doesn’t have the promise of the cash from annual renewals, but also doesn’t have the worry to pro-rate that can be done for annual subscriptions based on the start date and finite term.

I’m not sure Apple even requires the refund, considering I’ve had a few (non-subscription) apps just quit working from not being maintained, and also had iTunes HD purchases of a number of indie movies be downgraded to SD after the film ownership changes hands. That seems shiftier than what is happening here, and it isn’t like Apple refunded for the change.

 

[LeeW]

No idea why everyone is getting so wound up about this. Take the refund, don't take the refund. The choice is yours.

 

[anoobis]

Did you actually listen to the audio recordings? He did not blackmail anyone. Reddit CEO even apologized three times for the misunderstanding.

“Me: I could make it really easy on you, if you think Apollo is costing you $20 million per year, cut me a check for $10 million and we can both skip off into the sunset. Six months of use. We're good. That's mostly a joke.”

”If you want to rip that band-aid off once. And have Apollo quiet down, you know, six months. Beautiful deal.“

”Mostly a joke” is a cop out and means he’s at least a little bit serious

Also, the CEO was not on the call. This is part of the problem - people commenting who aren’t able to follow along or are just regurgitating others’ misinformed posts. From Christian’s own Reddit post:

(Note: as Steve declined to ever talk on a call, the call is with a Reddit representative)

Transcript:

https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-call-transcript.txt

 

[gund1234]

What intellectual property? The users provide the content.

Google, FB, Bing and lot of other companies operate on this business model, if you are not paying for it then you are providing content or generating add revenue for them.

 

[atokads]

“Me: I could make it really easy on you, if you think Apollo is costing you $20 million per year, cut me a check for $10 million and we can both skip off into the sunset. Six months of use. We're good. That's mostly a joke.”

”If you want to rip that band-aid off once. And have Apollo quiet down, you know, six months. Beautiful deal.“

”Mostly a joke” is a cop out and means he’s at least a little bit serious

Also, the CEO was not on the call. This is part of the problem - people commenting who aren’t able to follow along or are just regurgitating others’ misinformed posts. From Christian’s own Reddit post:

(Note: as Steve declined to ever talk on a call, the call is with a Reddit representative)

Transcript:

https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-call-transcript.txt

To be fair, what people are responding to is spez’s AMA. You’re right that spez was not on the call, but there was a reference to it on the AMA on the API.

Christian released the transcript after the AMA, if I recall correctly.

 

[paradox00]

"free labour" MY LORD. The users voluntarily posting their content, and the moderators volunteering their time moderating is not free labour. Nobody was forced to do anything. You are clearly stretching the truth to protect your whiny narrative. Business is business, the consumer votes, Reddit did nothing wrong.

How am I stretching the truth? If reddit removes mods and reopens subreddits, they will be paying admins to moderate them until they can find new moderators to do it for free. The only way it's not free labour is if you think labour can't be free...

Also what consumer voting are you talking about here? Do you just say things that you think sound good? Please define the consumer and demonstrate how they voted. Reddit's consumers are ad networks and the developers they wish to charge API fees to, and it seems like the developers have voted (to no longer associate with reddit).

If you're talking about users (which are the product sold to ad networks), plenty of them did vote for many of the closed subreddits to remain closed...

The people who worship capitalism the most seem to understand it the least.

 

[tothemoonsands]

Debatable.

I’m guessing Selig isn’t going to release the Apollo source code because if/when a Reddit competitor appears Apollo could easily make a comeback as the client of a different social network.

True, I could also foresee Apollo restarting with a high enough monthly subscription (perhaps based on one’s actual usage) once the previous subscriptions are cleared/refunded. Although at this point, Reddit may never follow up and provide access, unless it becomes a legal battle.

Personally I’d like to see Twitter work with Apollo and try to take on Reddit. Part of the all-in-one “X” app.

 

[ninethirty]

Just another normal day on Mac Rumors dot com where some ding-dongs log on to rail against the evils of indie devs and defend the apparently God-given right of massively VC funded corporations to completely dick over whoever they want.

The rich are not going to bestow their blessing upon you for licking their boots.

You're implying that the more rich you are, the more wrong you are.

In this case, since reddit belongs to reddit, and not 3rd party app developers, reddit gets to decide what reddit does. If that "dicks over," 3rd party developers, perhaps they should have had a better business model.

 

[ninethirty]

True, I could also foresee Apollo restarting with a high enough monthly subscription (perhaps based on one’s actual usage) once the previous subscriptions are cleared/refunded. Although at this point, Reddit may never follow up and provide access, unless it becomes a legal battle.

Personally I’d like to see Twitter work with Apollo and try to take on Reddit. Part of the all-in-one “X” app.

Twitter, like reddit, isn't interested in 3rd party apps. On top of that, Twitter is hot garbage that nobody wants.

 

[boss.king]

Personally I’d like to see Twitter work with Apollo and try to take on Reddit. Part of the all-in-one “X” app.

Lol. If there's any company devs should trust less than Reddit, it's Twitter. In fact, Reddit's whole game plan has been a watered-down version of what Musk did with Twitter.

 

[ninethirty]

How am I stretching the truth? If reddit removes mods and reopens subreddits, they will be paying admins to moderate them until they can find new moderators to do it for free. The only way it's not free labour is if you think labour can't be free...

Also what consumer voting are you talking about here? Do you just say things that you think sound good? Please define the consumer and demonstrate how they voted. Reddit's consumers are ad networks and the developers they wish to charge API fees to, and it seems like the developers have voted (to no longer associate with reddit).

If you're talking about users (which are the product sold to ad networks), plenty of them did vote for many of the closed subreddits to remain closed...

The people who worship capitalism the most seem to understand it the least.

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with this topic at all. Moderating a subreddit is a hobby. If you disagree, then stop doing it. I guarantee you, someone else will pick up where you left off.

 

[tripsync]

Lots of businesses people greatly value were built on foundations laid by other commercial players. That doesn't make their contribution any less valuable. If you build a sidewalk, someone else may use it to walk to work.

Lots of businesses pay to use foundations laid by other commercial players.

Sidewalks aren't free. They're subsidized by tax payers and sometimes the gas tax paid by car owners.

 

[tothemoonsands]

Lol. If there's any company devs should trust less than Reddit, it's Twitter. In fact, Reddit's whole game plan has been a watered-down version of what Musk did with Twitter.

Twitter, like reddit, isn't interested in 3rd party apps. On top of that, Twitter is hot garbage that nobody wants.

Yeah I’m not saying it’s likely, just that I personally see similarities and would be interested in Twitter as a Reddit alternative. Like Reddit, with Twitter you are jumping between communities/interests and have threaded conversations on topics/issues/Q&A/etc. Plus, Twitter is already on the path to become “X” and is dabbling in longer form video content.

Again, very unlikely, and you also raise the point of third party app/api restrictions but I was thinking Twitter would actually acquire Apollo and leverage Selig’s UI talent to not only improve Twitter app but also build out more Reddit-style functionality.

In any case, it’s quite subjective to say that Twitter is hot garbage that no one wants. That sounds like one opinion, many people still use it.

 

[wepnx]

It's a bit surprising to see so many people piling on this developer. In the last month he found out his primary revenue stream was going to be cut off imminently, and then the CEO of Reddit posts libelous attacks on him (discredited by the recordings shared by Christian). Now, he's essentially saying to the app users "You can have your money back or not" and somehow he's a jerk?

It's a sucky situation. He is not a jerk; he feels he deserves people's money because he is slightly hurt and confused. But he can learn from this situation that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[bgillander]

In this case, since reddit belongs to reddit, and not 3rd party app developers, reddit gets to decide what reddit does. If that "dicks over," 3rd party developers, perhaps they should have had a better business model.

So if Apple were to increase their commission from 30% to 90% and ban free apps it would be cool with you, as the developers should have had a better business model?

 

[elmateo487]

I know that I'd rather react to facts and reality instead of blindly joining the mob protesting on behalf of a developer who made MILLIONS by using everything that reddit built for free.

Do you not understand that Reddit PROVIDED that free service? Literally this is all on them. They chose to provide the service. They can choose to react reasonably when it was time to change that service.

Unreal we have people siding with big giant corporations squashing small developers.

When everything is owned by 10 companies will you be happy?

 

[elmateo487]

So if Apple were to increase their commission from 30% to 90% and ban free apps it would be cool with you, as the developers should have had a better business model?

Rofl. I am waiting for their response. 20 bucks it’ll be filled with cognitive dissonance such as “yup! It’s theirs to do what they wish!” And how they wouldn’t complain about it at all when the App Store lost most of its apps.

 

[bgillander]

It's a sucky situation. He is not a jerk; he feels he deserves people's money because he is slightly hurt and confused. But he can learn from this situation that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I have not seen anything where it seemed liked he felt he “deserved people’s money”, he just offered the option if anyone felt bad for him. It doesn’t seem any worse to me than credit card terminals usually popping up a default tip option now.

And there are plenty of free lunches, but they are usually provided to those at a high enough level that they don’t actually need it, so they never really notice… unless someone with an actual need for a free lunch should happen to get one. But that’s the difference between a comp and a free lunch, I guess… one apparently has a stigma attached.