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are you one of those people who love to consistently complain about every little thing that apple does wrong? nobody is perfect you know, apple can make mistakes just like how microsoft makes mistakes

to me the update is just fine, there are still some bugs needed to be fixed but most of my gripes were solved
 
Yes there are threads discussing what happened to people's machines when they installed. There aren't any discussing why Apple would release this when it clearly wasn't ready. Millions also had their systems bricked. Read about that on the Net. Why are you such an apologist for Apple?
I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.
 
I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.

Sadly, most people don't understand that :rolleyes:
 
That doc wasn't yet written when I did the update. I had no way of getting into the system to make any changes that would have helped. When was the last time an update trashed as many systems as this one apparently did?

Then you just admitted to be an early software adopter. I always wait for a couple of days (once a point update comes out) to watch if a lot of Mac users have problems with it or I am waiting for a third party developer to update their application/plugin. By doing this along with a Combo Update I really never had any of the problem others on the web complain about.

I can't count the post of Mac users saying a point update is bad because their third party program/plugins (especially Internet Plug-Ins) broke. It like blaming Apple because a small hack/programers programing is badly written. It is like Apple MUST bow down to the posters plugin/ obsure program.

It is always smart to wait a few days after any point update to see if breaks third party programming (by reading complaints on the net) before updating.
 
Don't know what you're talking about :confused:

The update worked flawlessly on iMac G5 (via Software update) and MacBook (manual download combo-update).
 
I've run all Apple updates on various Macs for every point version since 0SX 10.3.1. I have yet to have a problem caused by one.

Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.

MacBook Pro running OSX 10.5.6. without a problem.
 
The 10.5.6 update went fine on my MBP, but my upgraded PowerMac wasn't so lucky. Even though I did the update long after Apple acknowledged the problem, it STILL had the problem. Worst yet, it partially installed the update on the 2nd try and then said it could not install it (yeah it's a WTF moment). "About This Mac" now says I'm running 10.5.6 even though the Apple notify window said it couldn't install it. Is it installed? Is it partially installed? I do not know. But I do know when I tried to then download the Combo update, it gives a kernel panic EVER SINGLE TIME I try to open the DMG file so I would say, yes, something is screwed up.

I do have a backup of 10.5.5, but sadly I did a lot of photo scans and installed some new music, etc. after the last update so I'll have to move the directories over manually to the backup drive lest I lose them upon restoring the backup. Even then, I'm afraid I'll have missed something. This is the first time EVER that I've had a problem with a software update. Amazingly enough, my toaster just inexplicably died too while making toast for a hamburger while the Mac was rebooting. It just seems like one of those days....
 
I've run all Apple updates on various Macs for every point version since 0SX 10.3.1. I have yet to have a problem caused by one.

Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.

MacBook Pro running OSX 10.5.6. without a problem.
I'm guessing that is the problem in most cases, that or someone forgot to undo a hack they did to their system.
 
I always wait for the combo update for a reason. if there is a problem, the combo update will most likely deal with it, and because it always comes later than the incremental update, by the time the combo is available, people will already have found some of the flaws.

However, I always make sure I can roll back, and the first I check is whether things I plug in and my work-specific software, well, works. If it doesn't I roll back. At one time all the way back to tiger.

Just out of curiosity, what do people consider hacks? Pith helmet? Other ad-blockers? Missing Sync? Soundbooth and Bridge CS4?

Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.
I'm guessing that is the problem in most cases, that or someone forgot to undo a hack they did to their system.

Are you people really arguing that one shouldn't install third party software in order to not get bummed when updating the OS? Do you really think that one should run with a virgin system and not do anything else with their Mac than what is offered by Apple?
 
This is the first time EVER that I've had a problem with a software update. Amazingly enough, my toaster just inexplicably died too while making toast for a hamburger while the Mac was rebooting. It just seems like one of those days....

I bought a toaster which in my opinion, would be the toaster Apple would brand their own (if they ever made toasters).

DA0041.jpg


Single piece die cast exterior. No pull down lever to start the toasting - it's all electronic (buttons to start toasting on top). It slowly lowers the bread and slowly raises it when it's finished, with a 'beep'. No 'Pulp Fiction' popping moments.

Sorry, somewhat (but only slightly), off topic.
 
Just to keep things in perspective, lots and lots of us are upgrading without a hitch. My upgrade went perfectly on my G4 powerbook 1 ghz. I'm not downplaying how messed up it is that people are having failed upgrades though. Even a 1% failure rate (or whatever the rate is) for a routine upgrade is unacceptable. Routine upgrades should work 100% of the time on systems that aren't otherwise already damaged due to some other issue.

Still, I just want to make it clear that only a very small percent of people are having failed upgrades.
 
Just the internet?

JUST THE INTERNET?? :eek:

You said OS X 10.5.6 is really broken. If your internet isn't working properly, that doesn't really mean the rest of the system (i.e. running applications) is broke ;)

Did you post a topic asking for help?
 
Are you people really arguing that one shouldn't install third party software in order to not get bummed when updating the OS? Do you really think that one should run with a virgin system and not do anything else with their Mac than what is offered by Apple?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.

Like that. Although I don't consider Monolingual an "app" per se – more like a script that deletes system files.

I'd still say that Monolingual wasn't what Macrem and Ashka where thinking of.
 
I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.

No I'm not one to complain about much at all. However, just read the many Mac forums and you will find that it isn't just a few. I could equally ask you to post your data that shows the "vast majority" had no issues. I doubt anyone has this info as Apple would surely not release any data one way or the other. How many do you suppose have not update due to not knowing how to or even know that an update exists? How many more do you think would be adversely affected by the update?

Maybe you should visit your local Genius Bar to see how many machines are in for repair due to the update. This was a bad job by Apple. If you own a business and a measurable percentage were somehow compromised by your service, how long do you think you'd be in business?
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.

3rd party software is a fact of life in the computing industry. The developers of OS are certainly aware of this. Unless they release a new OS and state that certain apps will not work with the new OS, then they should be accountable for their design. Issuing an update that cripples a system is akin to distributing malware.

Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.
 
3rd party software is a fact of life in the computing industry. The developers of OS are certainly aware of this. Unless they release a new OS and state that certain apps will not work with the new OS, then they should be accountable for their design. Issuing an update that cripples a system is akin to distributing malware.

Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.

If developers play by Apple Rules, there should be no problems. Third party developers are required to code to Apple Spec.
 
Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.
It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around. Just because a vendor's apps are advertised on Apple's site is no guarantee that those programs are fully compatible with the most current Mac OS. As Apple states clearly on their site:
Apple is providing links to these applications as a courtesy, and makes no representations regarding the applications or any information related thereto. Any questions, complaints or claims regarding the applications must be directed to the appropriate software vendor.
 
Found my install disks! but i can't get them in :S... CD drive doesn't wanna open.

Hold down the mouse button (or trackpad button) while starting up your Mac, it's an old trick dating back to the original Mac 128k, it will eject any removable disks including CDs and DVDs.
 
After restoring from my 10.5.5 backup drive (as mentioned above, the 'partial' 10.5.6 Apple Software Update messed up my machine as opening DMG files for one thing caused instant kernel panics), I reinstalled 10.5.6 using the combo update and all appears well now.

I read that 10.5.6 has some graphic/gaming improvements, so I decided to run Xbench again to compare (not the greatest tool overall, but OK for comparing against earlier results against itself within some constraints at least; it does seem to vary too much over several tests, IMO though).

Here's the overall results compared to 10.5.4 and 10.4.11 on a 1.8GHz G4 with 1.5GB of L2 latency ram and an ATI 9800 Pro and Sonnet SATA.

-CPU score is noticeably faster under 10.5.6 (84.3) than 10.5.4 (71.1), but still slightly lags Tiger (88.06). Good to see Leopard catching up, though.

-Thread test up slightly in 10.5.6 (65.8) versus 10.5.4 (62.5) but still lags Tiger significantly (79.7)

-Memory test is up in 10.5.6 (39.1) versus 10.5.4 (36.9) which was already slightly faster than Tiger (36.1)

-Quartz graphics is down (89.5) versus 10.5.4 (93.6) but still higher than Tiger's (85.2). Text rendering took the biggest hit in 10.5.6, dropping from 256 in 10.5.4 to 152 in 10.5.6! That is still faster than Tiger's 128 score, though. Still, I wonder what happened there as it's almost half 10.5.4's score (unless Xbench is that unstable?) Edit: I would say it's Xbench alright. Retests gave text scores anywhere from 100 to 350!

-OpenGL tests are higher in 10.5.6 (79.6) versus 10.5.4 (73.0) but still pale next to Tiger's score (90.9)

-User Interface Test is down in 10.5.6 (48.5) from 10.5.4 (50.6) and (83.1) in Tiger. It's sad to see that Leopard still lags in this area quite a lot from Tiger. The 9800 Pro has full Core Video and Core 3D support in Leopard so it's not that.

-The disk test seems to vary a lot from test to test so I don't want to jump to really big conclusions, but I do find it interesting where the changes are at. Overall, 10.5.6 scored lower (68.3) than 10.5.4 (75.4), but similar to Tiger (68.0). However, uncached write is nearly double of Tiger's score in 10.5.6 (88 versus 44.5) but 10.5.4 had a score of 115 there. OTOH, I've seen Tiger's disk score reach almost 100 before the last video card and USB card upgrades so there's some odd variances there).

Overall, 10.5.6 gained some significant ground over 10.5.4 (CPU, Memory, Thread, OpenGL), but also lost some minor ground in other areas (Quartz, User Interface and Disk with a huge possible loss in text rendering, although still better than Tiger (again I reiterate Xbench isn't that great of a consistent testing tool, but then what else is there?).

Overall scores were better for 10.5.6 (62.7) versus 10.5.4 (61.1) but still lagged Tiger (69.2).

Hopefully, Leopard will continue to be tweaked. With the rumor that Snow Leopard will dump PPC support, I'm hoping they can at least get Leopard up to Tiger speeds before they're done with it. The differences are small enough now and the bugs addressed well enough, though that I feel I could use Leopard on my PPC machine on a daily basis except that I also lose Classic mode. I do not use many classic apps these days, but it's nice to have available and a bit of a shame they could not have carried it over as an optional install for PPC machines as it's the main reason I still run Tiger (the only app I have that is Leopard only is Handbrake and I tend to run it on my MBP for the speed differences anyway).

Edit:

I ran XBench again under 10.5.6 and to give you an idea of how unreliable Xbench is here are some notable differences just between one test to the next (first number is 2nd test). I'm only posting significant differences; others were very similar numbers:

Overall: 63.0 versus 62.7

Cpu: 91.6 versus 84.3
Quartz: 93.2 versus 89.5
Disk: 65.1 versus 68.3

A 3rd test (shutting down background tasks I normally run) erased 10.5.4 differences in several areas where earlier tests indicated a loss so I'm guessing 10.5.6 differences are not very significant or at least untestable using Xbench in these areas for reliable differences:

Overall: 63.2 versus 61.1

Quartz: 94.2 versus 93.6 in 10.5.4 (passed it where it lost before)
User Interface: 49.9 versus 50.6 (closer than before)

I've also found the "100" defaults a bit odd compared to actual system tests. For example, my disk scores are often as high as 150 on the uncached 256k test yet as low as 20 on the uncached 4k write test. That's a huge difference in performance compared to a 100/100 norm. Maybe it's the hard drive?

Overall, I think the most surprising aspect was when I ran Xbench on my MBP I just bought in October (the pre-uni-body model with a matte screen and two 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo CPUs and 2GB of ram). For all the talk about how much faster the Intel Macs are compared to PowerPC ones, let alone G4 PowerPC models, I was surprised to find that the overall score was only about 2x faster than my upgraded PowerMac. User Interface was the biggest difference at about 6x faster. OpenGL was a mere 2x faster. The CPU score for having 2 cores and being Intel 2.4GHz was only 2x faster than my 7448 single core 1.8GHz G4. The thread test was 5-6x faster, though so clearly the core differences showed up there. Disk tests were noticeably slower than my PowerMac (5600rpm laptop drive versus my full size 7800 rpm drive), but still, that's pretty good for a machine originally from the turn of the century, IMO. Overall, the enhanced PowerMac isn't too shabby for such an old machine. If I had gotten the dual CPU model, I think it would closed the gap on the 6x scores to also only 2-3x faster maximum, which for being originally nearly 8 years old, isn't the night and day differences I would have expected. The machine clearly has plenty of life left in it for every day applications. I would imagine Mac Pro 4-core G5s would be VERY close to current Mac Pros, let alone iMacs, etc. It's a shame Snow Leopard wants to ditch them so hastily.
 
are you one of those people who love to consistently complain about every little thing that apple does wrong? nobody is perfect you know, apple can make mistakes just like how microsoft makes mistakes

Yeah, but only Apple acts like their **** don't stink.
 
I bought a toaster which in my opinion, would be the toaster Apple would brand their own (if they ever made toasters).

DA0041.jpg


Single piece die cast exterior. No pull down lever to start the toasting - it's all electronic (buttons to start toasting on top). It slowly lowers the bread and slowly raises it when it's finished, with a 'beep'. No 'Pulp Fiction' popping moments.

Sorry, somewhat (but only slightly), off topic.

Do you have a link for that toaster - I can't read the logo and my Vista 64 system needs one....

(Last bit in jest - seriously I'd like some info on the toaster - I hate the one that my husband recently bought.)
 
It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around.

That attitude is why Windows is around 90% market share, and Apple is under 10% share.

The operating systems should remain compatible, unless there's clearly a benefit to the end user to justify an incompatibility.

As an example - one of my most frequently used tools is TeraTerm, a telnet/serial port terminal app for windows (XP's telnet client sucks).

The latest version that I have was built in March 1998 - but it installs and runs without problems on my 64-bit Vista systems. Some of the DLLs were built in August 1996.

Anyone who claims that "It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around." is rather clueless about how to attract developers, developers, developers to the platform.

If you want market share, you make sure that 10 year old programs continue to work. If you don't care about market share, then you don't care if 10 month old programs stop working.
 
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