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Anyone who claims that "...." is rather clueless about how to attract developers, developers, developers to the platform.

If you want market share, you make sure that 10 year old programs continue to work. If you don't care about market share, then you don't care if 10 month old programs stop working.
If you're a startup operating system, trying to get established, maybe. But if you think that operating system developers like Microsoft or Apple let the 3rd party applications "tail" wag the OS "dog", then you are the one who's clueless!

No OS would ever be released or upgraded if it had to ensure compatibility with the tens of thousands of apps that run on their platform. That is why you see some smaller apps cease development, because they don't have the resources to keep up with ongoing changes to the OS platforms, as evidenced by new releases of the apps following major changes in OS platforms. How many apps out there won't run on Mac OS X, but would run on earlier versions? The same goes for Windows.

Instead, you'll find the major 3rd party developers, like Adobe and others, getting a "heads up" about new releases, so they can adjust accordingly. The less significant app developers are always playing catch-up to make sure their apps continue to run on newer releases of the OS platforms.

Spend a few decades around the computer industry (with your eyes open) and you'll see this is true.
 
I waited for a few days on this update since I didn't have my MacBook around. I didn't have a problem with the 190 MB update luckily.
 
But if you think that operating system developers like Microsoft or Apple let the 3rd party applications "tail" wag the OS "dog", then you are the one who's clueless!

Sorry, but if you put "Microsoft" and "Apple" together in this argument, then you are truly the clueless one.

I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".

Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)

If it isn't a "driver", I don't need to download the x64 version. Even if the application does contain a driver, almost always the single kit contains both x86 and x64 code - so it's transparent to the user.

And I can't wait for 10.6 to ship, and the problems show up with running PPC and x86 (32-bit) apps on the x64 10.6 kernel. Oh, and do you have a driver - sorry, that 10.5 driver is an x86 driver - can't be loaded.
 
What a piece of crap

Thanks to 10.5.6 my computers crashed hard and they've been down all week!

I tried the combo update on my laptop too.

APPLE SHOULDN'T PUT OUT DEFECTIVE INSTALLERS.
 
That attitude is why Windows is around 90% market share, and Apple is under 10% share.

The operating systems should remain compatible, unless there's clearly a benefit to the end user to justify an incompatibility.

As an example - one of my most frequently used tools is TeraTerm, a telnet/serial port terminal app for windows (XP's telnet client sucks).

The latest version that I have was built in March 1998 - but it installs and runs without problems on my 64-bit Vista systems. Some of the DLLs were built in August 1996.

I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that is the sole reason Apple is under 10% share given it ignores the market trends all the way back to 1995 and the causes thereof, but I would agree it is irresponsible of Apple to cause software to break. I too have software for my Windows computer dating back to 1999 and using Windows98. When I built my new PC a year ago, I installed WindowsXP and ALL and I mean ALL my software from 1998 onward to today works in WindowsXP.

SOME of the Mac software I have here from 1999 works on the upgraded PowerMac I'm using, but only in Tiger with Classic running. None of that early software functions in Leopard on this computer or on my brand new MBP period. Many apps from the Tiger era even had problems in Leopard. Leopard proved early on it was slower and less stable than Tiger. Some of the speed losses have been reversed by 10.5.6, but not all. Stability does seem much improved, at least. But I believe it was irresponsible for Apple to release Leopard before it was ready. We should have seen 10.5.0 about 6 months ago (one year after it was actually released) and a SLEW of problems could/would have been avoided. There was nothing wrong with Tiger that it couldn't have continued on another year. In fact, it would have received some nice updates if it had and I might have better Bluetooth features, etc. in Tiger today (Apple simply stopped all updates to Tiger save security ones including camera support, etc. Microsoft continues updates to a Windows operating system several years after the new operating system is introduced. They don't just abandon it overnight like Apple does. Apple COULD have included Classic support in Leopard for PPC users, but once again, it chose to break all prior software compatibility. For a platform with so little software to begin with compared to Windows, it seems unconscionable to me, but then that's Steve for you.

On the other hand, most software for Linux breaks after revisions to the operating system as well. The only major difference is that it's mostly open source and so you can just recompile and everything is usually well again and if not, someone will usually fix it if there's any interest in that program. The same cannot be said for things like GAMES and games are the primary form of software that cannot and will not be supported by Mac OS. It's unreasonable to expect software companies to bother to update games that are no longer selling for an operating system (hence the term Abandonware) and it's unfortunate that such software isn't made open source so others CAN fix it, but that's not how the world works and so most Mac games don't work on newer Mac operating system versions.

Of course, most responses in this thread will be by fanboys and they will tell you that Apple MUST do what it MUST to continue to make OS X the best operating system in the whole wide Universe!!! Most of those people, though are clueless fanatics and hence the term fanboy. Microsoft, the kludge of operating systems that it is does a pretty good job of maintaining backwards compatibility. While problems do surface between hardware, etc., given how MUCH hardware it supports, it's still a pretty good job all in all considering. If Windows only had to support the handful of hardware variations that Apple supports, it would be darn near problem free as well. But that's the difference between 90+% and 8-9% of the consumer market.

I use OS X precisely because it's a small market and uses Unix type cores. This makes it stable and highly unlikely to be attacked by malware and viruses (the combination thereof). Thus, it's the machine I want to use when shopping or banking online or to drive a 24/7 house audio/video system and that sort of thing. That it's more friendly to use 'most' of the time than Windows doesn't hurt either. But it also means I keep a Windows machine around as well for gaming and software you cannot get for the Mac. Yes, I could install Windows on my MBP and have both on one machine but then I might open the Mac side up to potential issues as well and I'd have to start virus scanning (takes FOREVER these days given the large hard drive sizes, etc.) on the laptop and I'd rather not, really.
 
I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".
Of course if you're on an alpha or beta program, the purpose is to report flaws, but that's not the role of the average user.
Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.
That doesn't mean they make it a priority to ensure that every Windows app runs successfully on each updated release of Windows. That's the responsibility of the app developers.
I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)
If you're in a software alpha program, you're obviously not an average user. Unless you've had your head in the sand since Vista came out, you should know very well the monumental problems caused by that fiasco. Even neophytes know that Vista was a disastrous release.

If you Google "doesn't run on Vista" or "not supported on Vista" or many other such terms, you'll find a flood of links showing the flaws in that system. The fact remains that, while an OS developer may make efforts to minimize the impact of new releases and to coordinate with app developers, at the end of the day, they release updates that cause problems for some 3rd party apps. It's then the responsibility of the 3rd party developer to make sure they get "in step" with the current OS.
 
Sorry, but if you put "Microsoft" and "Apple" together in this argument, then you are truly the clueless one.

I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".

Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)

If it isn't a "driver", I don't need to download the x64 version. Even if the application does contain a driver, almost always the single kit contains both x86 and x64 code - so it's transparent to the user.

And I can't wait for 10.6 to ship, and the problems show up with running PPC and x86 (32-bit) apps on the x64 10.6 kernel. Oh, and do you have a driver - sorry, that 10.5 driver is an x86 driver - can't be loaded.

I'm sorry but your BS is too much to bare. Certainly, as OS's move forward there are bound to conflicts with developers. I run both legacy PPC Macs and Intel Macs, with full suites of Adobe, Macromedia, MS Office, and Open Source, not too mention cross platform support for latest camera raw processing and HD Video. I sit between platforms on a daily basis. To here you defend Vista Capable is laughable. Not only is the Vista OS a failure, as a System 7 developer I hope your efforts this time around cause less legacy apps incompatibility than Vista does. And lets not get into the issue of Vista Capable machines sold, under pressure from Microsoft, which must run crippled versions of Vista because they do have the power to run Vista. OS X runs fully and completely on my early 2000 PPC's. And lets talk about scalability. Seen any Windows Vista Phones? OS X is on the iPhone. And by the way, I run XP Professional on my Mac Laptop. And I sure it will run your obscure 10 year old terminal app as well. And another aside, you said as a System 7 developer you were told "if it doesn't run an app that runs on Vista, let us know immediately." I would have to caution, thats a pretty low threshhold.
 
newer update? Maybe it was mentioned earlier....

but apparently Apple has released a newer version of the update as of 12/21/08, with the original having been posted on the 15th. This only applies to the client, point update, not the combo update or either server version.

I ran Software Update yesterday on my MBP. I had an odd error on saying "Directory does not exist" and the SU didn't work.

Opened up Terminal, ran SSH to login as the local admin, then ran sudo softwareupdate -i -a. That worked.

After the reboot, my MBP was snappier than ever.

I ran Software Update on my iMac G5 without any problems.
 
I'm sorry but your BS is too much to bare. Certainly, as OS's move forward there are bound to conflicts with developers. I run both legacy PPC Macs and Intel Macs, with full suites of Adobe, Macromedia, MS Office, and Open Source, not too mention cross platform support for latest camera raw processing and HD Video. I sit between platforms on a daily basis. To here you defend Vista Capable is laughable. Not only is the Vista OS a failure, as a System 7 developer I hope your efforts this time around cause less legacy apps incompatibility than Vista does. And lets not get into the issue of Vista Capable machines sold, under pressure from Microsoft, which must run crippled versions of Vista because they do have the power to run Vista. OS X runs fully and completely on my early 2000 PPC's. And lets talk about scalability. Seen any Windows Vista Phones? OS X is on the iPhone. And by the way, I run XP Professional on my Mac Laptop. And I sure it will run your obscure 10 year old terminal app as well. And another aside, you said as a System 7 developer you were told "if it doesn't run an app that runs on Vista, let us know immediately." I would have to caution, thats a pretty low threshhold.

Aiden is 100% correct in her assessment. I am far from being the biggest Windows fan, I switched last year because I was tired of the security issues. That said, in all of the hundreds of updates initiated by MS, my system was never once compromised in any for or fashion. Not once. I repeat, not once. Therein lays my difficulty in accepting the idea that a major OS player such as Apple could issue updates that equate to malware for many, many users. That is just not acceptable. Sorry. I'm not moving back to Windows because of this, but they need to take a hard look at how they implement software updates.

Oh, by the way, Vista was a 100% completely different OS from XP. They informed people that there could be conflicts with software prior to issuing it. Not only that, but the upgrade didn't brick users systems, should they have chosen to employ it.
 
Aiden is 100% correct in her assessment. I am far from being the biggest Windows fan, I switched last year because I was tired of the security issues. That said, in all of the hundreds of updates initiated by MS, my system was never once compromised in any for or fashion. Not once. I repeat, not once. Therein lays my difficulty in accepting the idea that a major OS player such as Apple could issue updates that equate to malware for many, many users. That is just not acceptable. Sorry. I'm not moving back to Windows because of this, but they need to take a hard look at how they implement software updates.

Oh, by the way, Vista was a 100% completely different OS from XP. They informed people that there could be conflicts with software prior to issuing it. Not only that, but the upgrade didn't brick users systems, should they have chosen to employ it.

Vista a 100% completely different OS from XP? Please, not only is your use of the term "brick" inaccurate, your knowledge of Vista and it's underpinnings discredits your posts. Spreading FUD is one thing, calculated distortion and misinformation another.
 
Vista a 100% completely different OS from XP? Please, not only is your use of the term "brick" inaccurate, your knowledge of Vista and it's underpinnings discredits your posts. Spreading FUD is one thing, calculated distortion and misinformation another.

I am obviously not a programmer, however, even with my rudimentary knowledge of this subject, XP and Vista are significantly different in their core design.

Again, this is aside from the subject. MS never, ever issued an update that prevented me from booting or accessing my system. I was able to fix this on my own, but the majority of "PC" users do not have that ability. In essence, they issued malware for a good portion of their customers. Just look at the OS X forum on any site and you will see how many issues people have. We also, as users, don't know what issues will continue to crop up. I seem to be having trouble with my Logitech cordless mouse that I didn't encounter before.
 
MS never, ever issued an update that prevented me from booting or accessing my system.

Maybe not you, but it has happened to others.

Google search

I've never had an update from Apple fail me.

But the bottom line is that computers suck. They're complicated and unreliable. To me, Macs are *better* but far from *perfect*. Seriously, I work on a XP PC all day, and I want to blow my brains by the end. Spotlight alone is compelling enough to use a Mac instead of a PC.
 
browsers not working properly...

so..i updated the mac software; however, after the update, my browsers (safari&firefox) are not working properly. i go to my email and it will hang. i also visited some of my friends blog and when i clicked on a link, the browsers will just stop working. anyone else experiencing this?
if not, anyone can offer a suggestion on how i can fix this?? please?
thanks in advance.:eek:
 
so..i updated the mac software; however, after the update, my browsers (safari&firefox) are not working properly. i go to my email and it will hang. i also visited some of my friends blog and when i clicked on a link, the browsers will just stop working. anyone else experiencing this?
if not, anyone can offer a suggestion on how i can fix this?? please?
thanks in advance.:eek:
Next time you post give us details of your internet connection. Sounds like you're just not connected to your WiFi. Try rebooting both your machine, modem if you have one and router as well. This should solve your problem.
Get back to us with your success story.
 
Next time you post give us details of your internet connection. Sounds like you're just not connected to your WiFi. Try rebooting both your machine, modem if you have one and router as well. This should solve your problem.
Get back to us with your success story.
Hi, sorry...
uhm..well...i have cable [ i believe ] for my internet connection, it comes with the house. i am connected to my wiFi and I turned it off and on again and it still did not work. I also did the whole router reboot and it still did not change a thing. Another thing I tried was to delete Firefox and reinstall it, and vice versa with Safari. Firefox still screws with me. As for Safari, it did let me go on the blogs without hanging, but when I hit up Gmail, it hanged again.
 
Hi, sorry...
uhm..well...i have cable [ i believe ] for my internet connection, it comes with the house. i am connected to my wiFi and I turned it off and on again and it still did not work. I also did the whole router reboot and it still did not change a thing. Another thing I tried was to delete Firefox and reinstall it, and vice versa with Safari. Firefox still screws with me. As for Safari, it did let me go on the blogs without hanging, but when I hit up Gmail, it hanged again.
Are you sure email is just syncing? Sometimes IMAP servers take a little time to update. Are you getting your mail through Apple Mail?
 
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