Apple Addresses CSAM Detection Concerns, Will Consider Expanding System on Per-Country Basis

[giggles]

the bigger issue is this IS a backdoor, they promised (and still do right on apple.com in a pledge) to NEVER create backdoors because they admit it can be abused. if every single one of your photos is hashed and stored on icloud then at some point you have to trust that apple won't look for DIFFERENT kinds of photos, perhaps an "inappropriate" meme or political photo etc. to lump you into the "undesirables" or something. i know it seems far fetched but apple refused to create backdoors to help get data from known terrorists trying to attack us citizens on our own soil so they seemed pretty staunch but suddenly now they say it is ok... well shoot, it is worth looking into.

“Photos could theoretically be hashed to be compared against hashes of other photos” is not a technical backdoor.

It’s just a precedent, an idea.

Apple being the most privacy conscious (while not perfect at this) big tech is also a precedent.

Weight the precedents against each other to infer what will come next.

 

[cwosigns]

This site is full of folks who sound like Republicans claiming that their personal freedom is being harmed in an attempt to do the right thing.

We must do our best to remove these images from circulation. This is a good idea. But no, people are crapping on it because FREEDUM!

Actually I’m a die-hard liberal. I’m also a member of a minority group that is the TARGET of conservatives. We are under a Democrat administration now, but it doesn’t matter. Obama (whom I loved) okayed the kinds of mass surveillance that Snowden blew the whistle on. I side with Snowden. I was gravely disappointed in Obama.

Be careful about painting people with a broad stroke. You might be surprised what liberals and Democrats *actually* stand for.

 

[boswald]

This site is full of folks who sound like Republicans claiming that their personal freedom is being harmed in an attempt to do the right thing.

We must do our best to remove these images from circulation. This is a good idea. But no, people are crapping on it because FREEDUM!

Privacy is a right, not a privilege. No party should have anything to do with that.

 

[giggles]

Sure, Twitter and Facebook are scanning the data you post on their services. However, Apple is going to scan every single Apple users private image directly on users device. There is massive privacy difference between server side and client side scanning especially if this means that client side will scan every single image of every Apple user even if users are not actively posting to an distribution platform or signing into distribution service.

They scan them on the way to the server.
And we can’t really opt-out of servers in our lives anyway.
This is all moot.
Demand accountability from these companies at all times, period, on servers or locally-just-before-uploading-to-the-server is just a technicality.

 

[RemE]

This seems like a rights violation and we know the govt has been caught many times now breaking the law. I thought Apple was all about privacy, something stinks here. I'm all for rounding up pervs and burning them, but this is wrong.

 

[cola79]

What would people say if a fashion brand will send out people who enter your home and search everything you have for fake clothes and other stuff. They carry a list of things that are fake and will not look for anything else.

They come to your home each time you put a new item in your household.

They might not report you for a fake gucci bag, but if they find more than that, maybe a fake rolex and a fake armani belt, they will report this without telling you.

One day you come home and can't go inside, the doors are locked with new keys. You can call the fashion brand but they only can tell you the authorities have been informed.

You call this insane and crazy? So why then do you still use an iPhone?

You got nothing to hide? Me too, but they come to your home anyways! Every damn day! You are never private! Never again!

 

[Aoligei]

Privacy is a right, not a privilege. No party should have anything to do with that.

Can you point any law directly state privacy is right?

 

[Wildkraut]

They scan them on the way to the server.
And we can’t really opt-out of servers in our lives anyway.
This is all moot.
Demand accountability from these companies at all times, period, on servers or locally-just-before-uploading-to-the-server is just a technicality.

Good that I self host most of my stuff.

 

[cwosigns]

Can you point any law directly state privacy is right?

Look up the 4th Amendment.

 

[Aoligei]

Look up the 4th Amendment.

4th Amendment only state protection against unreasonable search and sizers. And this to my understanding is only applied to government.

It said nothing about private enterprise.

Also, it does not directly state privacy as fundamental rights.

But again, this is my understanding. I am law expert, I might be wrong

 

[giggles]

It’s early August and Apple is doomed.

Good thing they staggered this negative news cycle far from both WWDC and the iPhone reveal.

 

[siddavis]

Do you have any choice? As soon as you connect to internet, you are bond to be tracked and monitored.

I mean your ISP probably have all the activities on internet. You can do VPN, but even that is not foul proof.

We are going down to this rabbit hole deep enough. iOS 15 has digital wallet, digital keycard, digital car fob etc. We are more and more relying on connected everything.

Does those technologies improve our life and make things easier, absolutely. But what if you lost your phone? What if you have all your digital life hooked up with phone and software running on that phone has secrete backdoor to track everything you do?

You will never know.

You asked why we still think privacy is a thing in 2021. I answered because the CEO of the largest (revenue) company in the world sells it to us as part of the product.

Then you respond with a bunch of reasons why these types of tracking abilities could be dangerous.
"What if you have all your digital life hooked up with phone and software running on that phone has secrete [sic] backdoor to track everything you do?"
Point. Made. Thanks.

 

[PBMB]

"Apple did admit that there is no silver bullet answer as it relates to the potential of the system being abused, but the company said it is committed to using the system solely for known CSAM imagery detection."

In other words, Apple is acknowledging that, despite their best intentions, this system could be used maliciously by authoritarian governments to further oppress their citizens.

But hey, think of the children! /S

That alone tells that there is much more in this story than we can see today.

 

[usagora]

Anyone who it would catch will just turn off iCloud photos anyway, defeating the purpose.

Yes, because everyone who downloads or distributes child porn uses common sense and is never careless. No one has ever been caught by cloud services storing such porn on their servers (and subsequently charged, arrested, and convicted) because of course all these people never use cloud services for such things. Also, we all know these people are all on top of the geeky Apple news and are aware of this scanning technology. /s

 

[siddavis]

4th Amendment only state protection against unreasonable search and sizers. And this to my understanding is only applied to government.

It said nothing about private enterprise.

Also, it does not directly state privacy as fundamental rights.

But again, this is my understanding. I am law expert, I might be wrong

Holy **** dude. It's the Fourth Amendment. From the Bill of RIGHTS.

“the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

No law GRANTS it, and no law can DENY it.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[hasanahmad]

You asked why we still think privacy is a thing in 2021. I answered because the CEO of the largest (revenue) company in the world sells it to us as part of the product.

Then you respond with a bunch of reasons why these types of tracking abilities could be dangerous.
"What if you have all your digital life hooked up with phone and software running on that phone has secrete [sic] backdoor to track everything you do?"
Point. Made. Thanks.

Privacy still is the same on iPhone, not on iCloud data

 

[usagora]

So you mean to tell me the U.S. government will have to decide. When it comes to handling privacy?

Technology and Government should not work together when it comes to dealing with PRIVACY.

I bet you there’s more to this story.

Someone needs to start a petition to put this into stop.

View attachment 1815608
The message is clear: Do not store your stuff on iCloud. Make sure you order 1TB iPhone this year. (Your going to be needing the storage).

What happens on your iPhone DOES stay on your iPhone. That's not changing. As you said, if you want privacy, don't store your stuff on iCloud, because Apple has ALWAYS reserved the right to access any of your cloud files for any purpose they deem fit in order to enforce the iCloud service agreement or to aid law enforcement.

 

[hasanahmad]

You asked why we still think privacy is a thing in 2021. I answered because the CEO of the largest (revenue) company in the world sells it to us as part of the product.
Then you respond with a bunch of reasons why these types of tracking abilities could be dangerous.
"What if you have all your digital life hooked up with phone and software running on that phone has secrete [sic] backdoor to track everything you do?"
Point. Made. Thanks.

Privacy still is the same on iPhone, not on iCloud data

 

[cwosigns]

Privacy still is the same on iPhone, not on iCloud data

No. They’re putting the scanning ON your iPhone. Your iPhone, even though n airplane mode, is searching your photos for kiddie porn or whatever else the government wants Apple to look for.

This will go to the SCOTUS.

 

[giggles]

That alone tells that there is much more in this story than we can see today.

People don’t trust governments but somehow think that from a business we can get anything better than “we’re committed not to do this”.

The only alternative to trusting what happens under the hood is going
- 100% open source (both hw and sw)
- 100% self-hosted

Until then, I have a decent amount of earned good faith in Apple’s “commitments”. Not blind faith, but more good faith than for other companies.

 

[tylersdad]

View attachment 1815688

This is a false equivalence.

Facebook needs to make sure that their servers aren't hosting illegal content. Further, you don't HAVE to use Facebook or Twitter...I don't. You can't NOT turn this feature off on your phone. Apple is scanning every single image on your phone without your consent whether you upload it to the cloud or not. They can only rat you out if you upload it to iCloud, though.

 

[haruhiko]

It is sort of strange, the usual Pro Apple Stance are nearly non existent on this issue, and comments ( at least for now ) seems to be overwhelmingly against the idea. On MacRumors!

Where are those Apple defenders that claims Apple could do no wrong? Not even appearing in downvote?

They are on YouTube.

 

[hasanahmad]

I don't know who is dumber.

Apple for not thinking privacy "experts" and users will be confused if they scan unencrypted icloud files on the phone instead of wait for it to move to the the cloud

or iPhone users who don't ask why doesn't Apple scan in the cloud instead of the iPhone when its the same thing considering everything not on icloud is locked out to Apple

 

[hasanahmad]

No. They’re putting the scanning ON your iPhone. Your iPhone, even though n airplane mode, is searching your photos for kiddie porn or whatever else the government wants Apple to look for.

This will go to the SCOTUS.

no. its not iphone data (which is end to end encrypted) its icloud data on your iphone (which is encrypted but apple has key to other end). are people this slow ?

For example. if you have chat file in files app cheating on someone, Apple cannot access that as that is locally end to end encrypted and not on icloud

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Good thing I have the 512gb iPhone, I might just turn off iCloud photos.

Just finished doing this. Even downgraded my iCloud storage plan. I got everything downloaded to my 512GB iPhone. If I lose them, I lose them.