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Quoted it recently but obviously bears repeating…

Tim is not a product guy

Previous CEO. 2010

Yeah... People keep clinging on to that retort, which in the end means absolutely nothing.

As an engineer, it doesn't make any difference whether he is or isn't. In the end it's simply a cudgel people love to hurl in order to try and bolster a spurious argument.

Apple continues to conceive, develop, and manufacture *products* its 2+ Billion and repeat customers love to purchase. That's what really counts and is a measure of Apple's HUGE success.
 
They could also be a lot worse.
One only needs to look at the Google graveyard for a plausible alternate reality if some ol’ “product guy” was put in charge.
If you had a stake in a tech giant, would you want to hedge your bets with a product guy who has a clear vision of what the company needs and can bring together a team of engineers together to deliver it? Or a soulless greige beancounter who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing?
 
Yeah... People keep clinging on to that retort, which in the end means absolutely nothing.

As an engineer, it doesn't make any difference whether he is or isn't. In the end it's simply a cudgel people love to hurl and try and bolster a spurious argument.

Apple continues to conceive, develop, and manufacture *products* its 2+ Billion and repeat customers love to purchase.
You keep saying “repeat” as if it’s a thing. There used to be queues outside Apple Stores. Now, it’s just the sound of crickets.
 
You keep saying “repeat” as if it’s a thing. There used to be queues outside Apple Stores. Now, it’s just the sound of crickets.

Was at a very busy Apple Store in WA on Sunday and it was hilarious, as usual, to see the one "black hole" in the entire store .... The Vision Pro table

People just have no interest in that thing - lmao

Jam packed ... except for that table and the space around it, which is ironically where I ended up standing and waiting for the person I was with.

It was the "eye of the hurricane" 🌀😂
 
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They could also be a lot worse.
One only needs to look at the Google graveyard for a plausible alternate reality if some ol’ “product guy” was put in charge.
Google has not had proper discipline and direction from the top. Lots of divisions seemingly doing what they want with no big picture cohesion. A bit like Apple today. Apple today is a CEO who does not get involved sufficiently and dreams about Wall Street rather than new innovative products and how to get the workforce to buy into his dream.
 
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Yeah... People keep clinging on to that retort, which in the end means absolutely nothing.

As an engineer, it doesn't make any difference whether he is or isn't. In the end it's simply a cudgel people love to hurl in order to try and bolster a spurious argument.

Apple continues to conceive, develop, and manufacture *products* its 2+ Billion and repeat customers love to purchase. That's what really counts and is a measure of Apple's HUGE success.
Who’s an engineer? Cook was a supply chain manager.
 
Yeah... People keep clinging on to that retort, which in the end means absolutely nothing.

As an engineer, it doesn't make any difference whether he is or isn't. In the end it's simply a cudgel people love to hurl in order to try and bolster a spurious argument.

Apple continues to conceive, develop, and manufacture *products* its 2+ Billion and repeat customers love to purchase. That's what really counts and is a measure of Apple's HUGE success.
Akin to people clinging to highlighting a few dud products under Jobs in a sad attempt to try to show Cook is better.
 
Akin to people clinging to highlighting a few dud products under Jobs in a sad attempt to try to show Cook is better.

Nice try. I never claimed Cook is better.

He is an *outstanding CEO*, as demonstrated by Apple's massive success and 2+ Billion active and repeat customers who love to purchase Apple products. Year after year after year.
 
Tim Cook is an engineer. With an engineering degree from Auburn and an MBA from Duke.

He's also the CEO of Apple. With the buck stopping with him. He's responsible for Apple's massive success.
There’s millions of people out there with law degrees that have never practiced law. His MBA was a prerequisite to getting his job.

You’re right though in the buck stops with him, and he’s likewise responsible for all of Apple’s recent debacles and failures.
 
And when trying to deal with that concept, some just deflect and talk about a few products from Jobs era. Head in the sand is preferred by some it seems.
I could argue the same as being done with Tim.
He has way more success than he does failures.
Apple Watch, AirPods, M1, iPhone X, major leap in accessibility features and availability, Apple Music and TV+, even some smaller introductions, like the retina MacBook Pro, the Mac Studio and the M4 Mini.

Arguably is only true, no ands ifs or buts failures were the 2013 Mac Pro, the TouchBar, the butterfly keyboard, AirPower and the first generation HomePod.
Sure, there have been rocky starts to projects like Maps, but 13 years later and the reception for Apple Maps today is quite decent.

But I’m not saying that these were successes or failures because of how they helped the stock price, I’m saying that because I used a lot of of these products. I actually used them.
I had a TouchBar MBP, it was awful.

But as for today, my MBP is great, macOS (and all of the OS’s) are solid, any bugs that I experience are usually fixed within weeks or just with a restart.
I don’t have this awful experience people go on and on about, yeah, things pop up here and there, but that’s technology from any company ever. Even my iPod touch second generation had plenty of app crashes and freezing with a battery that could barely last through a full movie. Things were never perfect.
 
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I wonder if there will be a class action about folks who bought the phone in anticipation of advertised features.
They would have no case because Apple promised these features on the iPhone 16, not iOS 18. Apple deserves all the public blowback they’re getting from this, but a class action lawsuit wouldn’t have any legs.
 
There’s millions of people out there with law degrees that have never practiced law. His MBA was a prerequisite to getting his job.

You’re right though in the buck stops with him, and he’s likewise responsible for all of Apple’s recent debacles and failures.
Book learning is what it is. I would take someone like Steve Jobs, a college dropout and 6 months backpacking in India with great ideas, drive and a mission over a Cook type any day of the week.
 
A really great alternative reality that Tim Cook defenders never seem to ponder

Things could actually be way BETTER than they've been under Tim

And when trying to deal with that concept, some just deflect and talk about a few products from Jobs era. Head in the sand is preferred by some it seems.
Hypotheticals and group insults in a thread about feature delay.

This isn’t as a big deal as some make it out to be. Personally I’m satisfied the Tim Cook has 5 more years.
 
If you had a stake in a tech giant, would you want to hedge your bets with a product guy who has a clear vision of what the company needs and can bring together a team of engineers together to deliver it? Or a soulless greige beancounter who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing?
The flaw with your argument is that I don’t believe Tim is either of those things.

“Steve Jobs was once asked at an Apple [AAPL] shareholder meeting by a shareholder who wanted get some insights into his deepest thinking: “What keeps you awake at night?” Mr. Jobs replied, “Shareholder meetings.”

The wisdom of this insight was borne out last week when Mr. Jobs’s successor at Apple, Tim Cook, was asked at the annual shareholder meeting by the NCPPR, the conservative finance group, to disclose the costs of Apple’s energy sustainability programs, and make a commitment to doing only those things that were profitable.

Mr. Cook replied –with an uncharacteristic display of emotion–that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues. “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind,” he said, “I don’t consider the bloody ROI.” It was the same thing for environmental issues, worker safety, and other areas that don’t have an immediate profit. The company does “a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive. We want to leave the world better than we found it.”

Reportedly looking directly at the NCPPR representative, he said, “If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.”

The National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR) attended the meeting as shareholder. It describes itself as a conservative think tank and was pushing a shareholder proposal that would have required Apple to disclose the costs of its sustainability programs and to be more transparent about its participation in “certain trade associations and business organizations promoting the amorphous concept of environmental sustainability.”

Mr. Cook made clear that Apple would continue with energy sustainability and its other initiatives. Most of the shareholders went along with that: the NCPPR’s proposal received just 2.95 percent of the vote.”

Now, do those sound like the words of a “a soulless greige beancounter who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing?”
 
Every time the Steve vs. Tim debate revs up I wonder if people still remember the age of skeuomorphic UI
 
You keep saying “repeat” as if it’s a thing. There used to be queues outside Apple Stores. Now, it’s just the sound of crickets.
That’s a ridiculous argument to make, there used to be cues outside of movie theaters. Now people just stream.
Apple sold 9 million units of the iPhone 5C and 5S on launch weekend.
Now it’s a disappointment if they don’t sell 9 million units on an average weekend.
The world is a fundamentally different place, people purchasing Apple products are probably going to do it online if they want it on day one. Just like people don’t queue outside of music stores to get a new album on release day, they wait until midnight of release day and then push the play button.
 
Every time the Steve vs. Tim debate revs up I wonder if people still remember the age of skeuomorphic UI
Speaking of that UI, does anybody know what happened to the poster who had old products and talked a lot about the old UI. He repaired golf carts for a living but I do not recall his name. He stopped posting a year or two ago. Interesting fellow.
 
You serious? For which features exactly?
Nothing specific. I don't know much about AI, and don't feel like becoming a ludite in my old age. So when I had the chance to trade in my iPad Mini 6 I did, and immediately bought a mini 7 with the trade in money. Even though I didn't use the 6, I was looking forward to messing around with an AI that was more private than ChatGTP.

And 6 months later I'm not sure that I can tell the difference between the two. Calling Apple Intelligence useless is an insult to useless things, but worse is that there have been so many sales on the mini since it was released. I could have set a hundred dollar bill on fire and it would have been money better spent for heat than getting the Mini 7 for its AI features.
 
I've been saying this for like 6 years but Apple really should go back to announcing features that are ready to be added in the x.0 release, and talk about future updates later, when they are also ready. Smaller release cycles and less hype, maybe, but it would be more accurate for customers to know what's actually coming soon.
Investors don’t like that.
 
The cone of shame is real.

I miss the good old days when at least there'd be leaks on MR about which senior Apple exec in charge is about to get sh*tcanned for such a monumental embarrassment.
I miss the days when senior Apple execs actually had to fear getting sh*tcanned over monumental embarrassments. (Scott Forstall must really be enjoying some bitter schadenfreude...)
 
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The Cook vs Jobs fight is just silly.
What _is_ troubling is the trend in recent years for Apple to announce things that takes ages for them to deliver, if at all.
It is a somewhat strange strategy (for the Apple I know) to announce features at WWDC without even having a grasp of how difficult it would be to implement them.
I have no problem with a staged release over a few versions to slowly get things going, but we are now 8 months after WWDC when they realize they will not be able to deliver for up to another year!
I would expect that features that are still just a concept or an idea would not be mentioned, much less announced.
Not that I could care any less for these AI functions but to me, this reveals internals of Apple that is not comforting.
 
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You keep saying “repeat” as if it’s a thing. There used to be queues outside Apple Stores. Now, it’s just the sound of crickets.

It certainly is a thing. And is a measure of a company's success. It's about customer loyalty to products they love. Successful tech companies rely on *repeat customers*. Without them, companies would fail.

You may not realize that around-the-block lines of Apple customers waiting to purchase an iPhone went out when people could order one online from the Apple Store right from the comfort of their living room. A good thing.
 
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The flaw with your argument is that I don’t believe Tim is either of those things.

“Steve Jobs was once asked at an Apple [AAPL] shareholder meeting by a shareholder who wanted get some insights into his deepest thinking: “What keeps you awake at night?” Mr. Jobs replied, “Shareholder meetings.”

The wisdom of this insight was borne out last week when Mr. Jobs’s successor at Apple, Tim Cook, was asked at the annual shareholder meeting by the NCPPR, the conservative finance group, to disclose the costs of Apple’s energy sustainability programs, and make a commitment to doing only those things that were profitable.

Mr. Cook replied –with an uncharacteristic display of emotion–that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues. “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind,” he said, “I don’t consider the bloody ROI.” It was the same thing for environmental issues, worker safety, and other areas that don’t have an immediate profit. The company does “a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive. We want to leave the world better than we found it.”

Reportedly looking directly at the NCPPR representative, he said, “If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.”

The National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR) attended the meeting as shareholder. It describes itself as a conservative think tank and was pushing a shareholder proposal that would have required Apple to disclose the costs of its sustainability programs and to be more transparent about its participation in “certain trade associations and business organizations promoting the amorphous concept of environmental sustainability.”

Mr. Cook made clear that Apple would continue with energy sustainability and its other initiatives. Most of the shareholders went along with that: the NCPPR’s proposal received just 2.95 percent of the vote.”

Now, do those sound like the words of a “a soulless greige beancounter who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing?”
And with that strawman argument, I’m out.

Except to comment on “the bloody ROI” 😆Did he pick up that singularly British expression from Jony Ive? 🙄 Imagine it in his Southern monotonous tone? Yeah, just not something Cook would say let’s be honest. Anything to convey “a rare display of emotion” I guess.
 
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Built for no intelligence! Please buy our phones though. We can’t innovate at all anymore but we promise more emoji’s.
 
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