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Apple Adds Java SE 6 to Leopard
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Well, (Fuller?) SoyLatte showed that, except for Aqua, porting is not so hard.
I *guess* Apple is mid-way through a UI rework that did not make it to Leopard ... Either that or Objective-C has Java-envy
(now with GC ...) or some political moves that involve stuff for conspiracy buffs (iPhone is got to be involved here too) ... People under-appreciate the work Sun has put into MS's platforms too
I guess (but I haven´t checked lately) this problem is SWT-Eclipse related ...
As one of those "wierdos" whose University diploma is entirely Java based, I'm happy that Java is being maintained on OSX. I don't give a rats arse what you think about it.
My Core Duo iMac doesn't have the update, which means it's Core 2 Duo only. That sucks, and I think it's a pretty dumb decision on Apple's part. so if I need to use Java 6, I've got to go and get my MacBook and use that instead of my iMac? Stupid. Really stupid.
Wrong way round. Java will give you a better grounding than C/C++ (I assume you are joking about assembly). Any programmer worth employing won't have much trouble moving between a lot of languages - Java, C++, Delphi, JavaScript, PHP, for example - as they are structurally the same. And most scripting languages I've used, like PHP and Javascript, are virtually identical to Java.
Javascript is closer to Lisp than Java. Sure its got the same syntax, but you can do much more cool stuff with Javascript (Cool doesn't mean useful, but cool nonetheless, in the geeky way). Javascript can have nested functions and define new functions, new classes at run time, etc...
Btw, I started learning Java before C, I wish it was the other way around.... *sneeze [memory leak]*.
Considering that Apple concentrates on end-users and Java on desktops used mostly by developers, it is obvious that it will be very very low priority.
Also, from reading mail-lists about porting JRE/JDK to Linux and can only relay frustration with all the hacks JVM is filled with and all the platform dependencies making java RT library total mess. Add here all the dumb legalese Sun forces on porters - you get the out-come we have in MacOS: Sun doesn't care much about Java's port of MacOS (Sun is server company) and for Apple it is way too niche product.
a) Are there any 64 bit browsers for Mac? (IE and Firefox are 64 bit for Windows)
b) I think Apple will be making Final Cut and most of their other apps 64 bit before Safari (though I know they have different teams for both).
Thats a little unfair, Objective-C is heavily used on the Mac. However I agree Java should be be supported better by Apple.
Yes.
WTF are they doing?Wow, so not only do you have to buy a new OS (which at least is only software, and does have other advantages). You also have to buy a new machine every 18 months to be supported by Apple
. That is lame and there is no defending it. Frankly in 2008 I expect my machine to last 4-5 years before needing replacement whatever OS it is running. Though I do buy a fair bit of software along the way for my machine.I'm not sure thats true about Sun, though granted its seems to be true for Apple, though given Java is the #1 used language it seems more than a little foolish on Apple's part.
Yes, SE means standard edition.Dang, I'm developing in Java on my Macbook and it's a Core (1) Duo (32 bit).
"SE" stands for standard edition, right? I know "ME" is mobile and "CE" is corporate edition.
There is no "CE. I think you mean "EE" which is a superset of SE (i.e. requires SE) and stands for Enterprise Edition. It basically adds all the server side (web, middleware, backend) APIs.
I know I am going to get a lot of criticism here (heck, I usually do on these posts), but.....
Java is great and widely used... yes and probably will be for a long time due to how hard it is to rewrite entire applications in something else, and also how many devices (especially portable) support Java.
However, in the companies I have worked at, they are beginning to dump Java due to the abilities of .NET, and the complexity of trying to do anything in Java. Now I know that does not help those us us who have come to love Mac, as .NET (for the moment) is primarily Windows base, and everyone knows that Linux and Unix make better servers (since they keep running without periodic reboots). I do not know too many companies that have Apple servers, but I am sure they are just as reliable due to the Unix understructure.
There has been an unconfirmed rumor I heard from MS-MACBU. While they refuse to speculate and release anything about the future; now that VBA is going away, even on the Windows side, and Visual Studio 6 support ended this year (ticked off a lot of people who still have VB6 apps running). They are looking to do more with .NET, which may even mean bringing .NET to office scripting on the Mac as well.
As I look out on the job boards, I still see Java positions; but they are becoming less frequent (maybe because of my geographic area), and more and more .NET, or C++ jobs listed.
I tried learning Java, but since the company I used to be at is dumping it and the new company I am at uses Visual Studio (6 and .NET), my Java learning has been put on the back burner. I still have my books, so I may pick it up as a hobbyist.
Personally, I wished Python would take off more. Very easy language to learn, very capable.
Oh and a reply to one of the posts I seen earlier - unless you plan on doing application/server development as your career; I agree it is good to learn the basics of many languages and learn scripting. Most I/T shops these days are buying off the shelf applications and need people to do add-ons or scripting to automate them. Sorry, I have been in I/T for 20+ years and that is where we are headed.
Java is great and widely used... yes and probably will be for a long time due to how hard it is to rewrite entire applications in something else, and also how many devices (especially portable) support Java.
However, in the companies I have worked at, they are beginning to dump Java due to the abilities of .NET, and the complexity of trying to do anything in Java. Now I know that does not help those us us who have come to love Mac, as .NET (for the moment) is primarily Windows base, and everyone knows that Linux and Unix make better servers (since they keep running without periodic reboots). I do not know too many companies that have Apple servers, but I am sure they are just as reliable due to the Unix understructure.
There has been an unconfirmed rumor I heard from MS-MACBU. While they refuse to speculate and release anything about the future; now that VBA is going away, even on the Windows side, and Visual Studio 6 support ended this year (ticked off a lot of people who still have VB6 apps running). They are looking to do more with .NET, which may even mean bringing .NET to office scripting on the Mac as well.
As I look out on the job boards, I still see Java positions; but they are becoming less frequent (maybe because of my geographic area), and more and more .NET, or C++ jobs listed.
I tried learning Java, but since the company I used to be at is dumping it and the new company I am at uses Visual Studio (6 and .NET), my Java learning has been put on the back burner. I still have my books, so I may pick it up as a hobbyist.
Personally, I wished Python would take off more. Very easy language to learn, very capable.
Oh and a reply to one of the posts I seen earlier - unless you plan on doing application/server development as your career; I agree it is good to learn the basics of many languages and learn scripting. Most I/T shops these days are buying off the shelf applications and need people to do add-ons or scripting to automate them. Sorry, I have been in I/T for 20+ years and that is where we are headed.
Not trying to be a troll, I'm genuinely curious, why is .NET better than Java? I've personally found .NET is very difficult to work with. Feel free to go into technical details if needed.
Come on, that's like saying Cocoa (for the moment) is primarily Mac based.
Interesting, unfortunately I suspect it'll be Windows only however, that is Microsoft's way really.
Interesting, especially for C++ as it was around before Java.
Your post is sooooo wrong. It makes no sense! Your confused and lost in translation. Please stop posting bad info.
Just kidding..........
Just giving you some false "criticism"
Your post is sooooo wrong. It makes no sense! Your confused and lost in translation. Please stop posting bad info.
Just kidding..........
Just giving you some false "criticism"
Is Java dying out or not, can someone shed some real light on this.
If it is, fair enough that Apple drops it.
If not, why didn't they support, what must be millions of PPC machines?
My personal opinion is that probably Java>.NET, but some businesses are so obsessed with Microsoft they are going to use .NET even with its flaws (or they don't know any better). As the world is becoming less obsessed by Microsoft solutions Java and other alternatives will become more popular than .NET than they are at the moment.
To be honest though I doubt any major language will really die as its used in existing code, it'll just be used less. FORTRAN and COBOL are still used extensively today for example.
However I'm not a business coder, and haven't really used .NET or Java enough to have an informed opinion. I think if shervieux can come up with some evidence of why .NET > Java we can hopefully get some interesting information.
I am a .NET developer in a place that (for some reason) would not dare try to save some money using Open-Source technology. NBo matter what is has to be Microsoft. .NET is good but does have a lot of problems.
But I still intend to learn and work with Java.
Wanted to on my Mac but the support is poor, even with the latest release that is late and only on part of the platform.
Looks like the best thing I can do is buy a good Solaris laptop.
I would like to hear any ideas on Java and .NET.
But I still intend to learn and work with Java.
Wanted to on my Mac but the support is poor, even with the latest release that is late and only on part of the platform.
Looks like the best thing I can do is buy a good Solaris laptop.
I would like to hear any ideas on Java and .NET.
I've just installed this on my MacBook. So it doesn't need a 64-bit Intel-based Mac. Just an Intel-based Mac.
Most MacBooks are 64-bit. Only the very first (Core Duo) generation of MacBooks were not 64-bit.
It's the framework, not the language
Isn't comparing Java to .NET about the same as comparing Objective-C to Cocoa?
One is a language, the other is an OS framework.
I can use C++, C#, Visual Basic or other languages to write applications in the .NET framework.
The .NET framework is richer than the JRE environment, and you get an application that looks and acts like other applications on the PC. Most Java apps, on the other hand, look like something from an alien world and also behave like they're alien.
Isn't comparing Java to .NET about the same as comparing Objective-C to Cocoa?
One is a language, the other is an OS framework.
I can use C++, C#, Visual Basic or other languages to write applications in the .NET framework.
"Visual C# C# is a simple, type-safe, object oriented, general-purpose programming language. Visual C# provides code-focused developers with powerful tools and language support to build rich, connected web and client applications on the .NET Framework."
"Visual C++ Visual C++ provides a powerful and flexible development environment for creating Microsoft Windows–based and Microsoft .NET–based applications. It also enables developers to build Web applications, smart-client Windows-based applications, and solutions for thin-client and smart-client mobile devices."
"Visual Basic Visual Basic is a tool for productively building type-safe and object-oriented applications. It allows developers to create a wide range of Windows, Web, mobile, and Office applications built on the .NET Framework."
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualc/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx
"Visual C++ Visual C++ provides a powerful and flexible development environment for creating Microsoft Windows–based and Microsoft .NET–based applications. It also enables developers to build Web applications, smart-client Windows-based applications, and solutions for thin-client and smart-client mobile devices."
"Visual Basic Visual Basic is a tool for productively building type-safe and object-oriented applications. It allows developers to create a wide range of Windows, Web, mobile, and Office applications built on the .NET Framework."
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualc/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx
The .NET framework is richer than the JRE environment, and you get an application that looks and acts like other applications on the PC. Most Java apps, on the other hand, look like something from an alien world and also behave like they're alien.
Umm, because Java is slow and it sucks?! ;-)
Because SUN did not bother to port it, but instead only cares about it on iPhone?!
Someone interview SUN and ask THEM!!!!
Because SUN did not bother to port it, but instead only cares about it on iPhone?!
Someone interview SUN and ask THEM!!!!
Maybe Apple just love Linux and want to persuade as many Java developers to switch to that platform as humanely possibly. Giving back to the open-source community and all that
That must be it. I'm a developer who uses Java a lot and Linux is currently my preferred environment for that because of how long it takes new Java versions to reach OS X.
I was assuming we were comparing the Java frameworks to the .NET frameworks. I know you can use multiple languages in the .NET framework but I'm not convinced that's an advantage.
You hit the nail on the head. People can complain all they want about Apple not doing their thing, but if Sun wants Java to be a write once, deploy everywhere language/framework, why the heck didn't they do a good MacOS X version instead of making Apple port it?
If you are a Java developer you really have to ask yourself why you bother developing in Java at all if even Sun themselves don't stand behind their own mantra.