Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Adds Java SE 6 to Leopard
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm glad I'm not a Java developers (nightmare ahead!). Sad that they screw so much with Java, hope they fix all this for the version 7. OS X is fun to develope except for:
- C#/.net (well duhhh, but still soo)
- Java
but I don't understand why Apple seem to dislike Java soo much. Maybe when you look at some Java applications from the Linux world you don't want that on your platform, Azureus for exemple, what a ressource ogre for what it does...
Seriously, people learning Java in University should change of University, many company begin to complain about that (segmentation fault anyone). In school, you should learn C/C++, OpenMP, assembly, prolog or lisp, and a scripting language at least. So you get a good base, after that, Java will be easy anyway.
- C#/.net (well duhhh, but still soo)
- Java
but I don't understand why Apple seem to dislike Java soo much. Maybe when you look at some Java applications from the Linux world you don't want that on your platform, Azureus for exemple, what a ressource ogre for what it does...
Seriously, people learning Java in University should change of University, many company begin to complain about that (segmentation fault anyone). In school, you should learn C/C++, OpenMP, assembly, prolog or lisp, and a scripting language at least. So you get a good base, after that, Java will be easy anyway.
Terrible
To recap:
Intel only
64-bit only
Leopard only
Doesn't support Safari
Late
Backlevel (Sun released the _06 build some time ago; this is _05)
This is awful. The software doesn't even run on machines Apple sold new mere months ago and still sells refurbished with full warranties (and optional AppleCare). And there are zero technical reasons for these limitations. Meanwhile, Apple is flush with cash and could actually put another developer or two on this project (or at least contract it out). And Apple didn't, putting the lie to Steve Jobs's own boasts about the Mac's alleged strengths as a Java platform.
To recap:
Intel only
64-bit only
Leopard only
Doesn't support Safari
Late
Backlevel (Sun released the _06 build some time ago; this is _05)
This is awful. The software doesn't even run on machines Apple sold new mere months ago and still sells refurbished with full warranties (and optional AppleCare). And there are zero technical reasons for these limitations. Meanwhile, Apple is flush with cash and could actually put another developer or two on this project (or at least contract it out). And Apple didn't, putting the lie to Steve Jobs's own boasts about the Mac's alleged strengths as a Java platform.
Per the April programming community index:
Java is #1, and Objective-C is #38, behind almost everything. If you think Java is useless and nobody uses it, perhaps you should evaluate whether or not you have a true global view of the overall IT community. You might also try searching for "Java" vs. "Objective-C" on Monster, Dice, etc.
The facts say something different. They seem to say that nobody is using Objective-C.
I'm all for keeping the cobwebs out of the attic, so to speak. Vista carries around a lot of legacy baggage. However, the fact that I have a machine that has over a year's worth of AppleCare left that won't run Java 6 is a little hard to swallow. I built a digital picture frame years ago with an EPIA 5000 motherboard running Damn Small Linux, and it has been running Java 6 for the last year (I wrote the slideshow software in Java.)
If you still don't care about Java, maybe you will care about the next thing that Apple decides they are too good to support on your relatively new hardware.
Java is #1, and Objective-C is #38, behind almost everything. If you think Java is useless and nobody uses it, perhaps you should evaluate whether or not you have a true global view of the overall IT community. You might also try searching for "Java" vs. "Objective-C" on Monster, Dice, etc.
The facts say something different. They seem to say that nobody is using Objective-C.
I'm all for keeping the cobwebs out of the attic, so to speak. Vista carries around a lot of legacy baggage. However, the fact that I have a machine that has over a year's worth of AppleCare left that won't run Java 6 is a little hard to swallow. I built a digital picture frame years ago with an EPIA 5000 motherboard running Damn Small Linux, and it has been running Java 6 for the last year (I wrote the slideshow software in Java.)
If you still don't care about Java, maybe you will care about the next thing that Apple decides they are too good to support on your relatively new hardware.
Yayyyy, new computer when I get home. Love downloading updates! Keep em comin'.
I agree, seems a bit weird but I get excited about downloading new updates too.
Yes it does.
Java is completely agnostic to this. Java has always been available on 64-bit platforms and there is absolutely no reason that why an application wouldn't run on a 64-bit JVM.
The 'common problems' you speak of are simply non existent for java apps.
Most people who program for Mac use Objective-C,
and that's what Apple cares.
Thanks to the exposure of iPhone to the developers, Objective-C will become more popular, and that's what Apple cares.
I think Apple doesn't care what people in general use in programming.
and that's what Apple cares.
Thanks to the exposure of iPhone to the developers, Objective-C will become more popular, and that's what Apple cares.
I think Apple doesn't care what people in general use in programming.
Using Java as a tool for learning object-oriented programming is fine. Learning different programming paradigms is what's important.
Well Apple isn't incompetent, you don't amass billions of dollars through incompetence <insert your own joke here>, so that only leaves one explanation…
Maybe Apple just love Linux and want to persuade as many Java developers to switch to that platform as humanely possibly. Giving back to the open-source community and all that
Or Solaris: The Most Advanced Operating System on the Planet.
Hyperbole aside, it is actually very good.
The reason applications that use SWT do not work is because they load a native library. I wrote a bug report about this and they blamed Eclipse. None of the current SWT components work as far as I know. And if it is really only 64 bit then I guess that is the problem.
Coding a JVM has very little to do with the whole "Write once, run everywhere" mantra. The interpreted code is agnostic, but the JVM itself is written with C libs ( and maybe a spare piece of Cocoa junk) that is more dependent on sizes of address spaces and other C like concerns.
Since WAS, WLS, and jboss will likely never support running with a 1.6 JVM on OSX I don't see many java developers ever flocking to the platform to ply their trades. So this whole thing is rather pointless except for maybe the occasional mac zealot who wants to run eclipse outside of a VM. In the real world : public static final long JAVA = COBOL + 30 *(1000*60*60*24*365.25);
It is worth noting that the SoyLatte project was successful in porting the BSD JDK (1.6) to OS X. It runs quite well in my experience but the big shortcoming is that it doesn't have the Swing - Cocoa bindings- it just utilizes X11.
At any Java tradeshow/conference/etc. you'll see lots of developers with MacBooks. However, it is a virtual guarantee (no pun intended) that they're all running Parallels or VMWare with XP/Vista. These aren't just the flunkies like me who paid a couple grand to get into the conference- presenters from Sun, Google, etc. will also be seen using MacBooks.
Is that really such bad company to keep? Friggin' engineers from Sun and Google?!? Don't know about you but I would LOVE to have these guys buying and using my stuff, if I were in...oh, I don't know... the software and hardware business.
I know that java 5 code will not run on java 6...it has to be recompiled.
Edit: incorrect, it can run previous code. Alot of these arguments about the Java VM on leopard are getting kind of muddled.
Unfourtuantley Java is more focused in the beginning of Computer Science, at least as far as I have gone...
I've seen that java is #1, but most of the things that are used by most people are coded in different languages mainly C++ (and C). Note that C is #2.
Exactly why Java is used in the teaching of Computer Science. Though sometimes I regret that they do not teach C or C++ instead....
That is not correct.
If that were true Java applications that use 3rd party libraries would break all over the place. There would be hell to pay. Java 6 should run any bytecode compiled with any previous version of Java (although I'll admit I haven't run any Java 1 code recently that I'm aware of).
Curse you Software Update...
Ok please tell me this is just a bad coincidence. I just updated the new update; restarted and now Safari 3.1.1 (5525.18) has CRASHED FOUR TIMES!
I've never has Safari crash this often.
Ok please tell me this is just a bad coincidence. I just updated the new update; restarted and now Safari 3.1.1 (5525.18) has CRASHED FOUR TIMES!
I've never has Safari crash this often.
Well, at my university (where Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++) was educated once upon a time) Java is taught in the first programming course, and further on in a more advanced course, but that's about it. Other languages such as ML and prolog are touched upon in a more general purpose programming language course, and ML is used intermittently with java in a compiler course. C is used in an operating systems course where you mess around with the Linux kernel and scripting languages such as Python have been used in courses such as Distributed Systems and Bioinformatics (I used Ruby in that class, just for the fun of it). C++ is used extensively in a game development course. None of these languages are taught as such, except Java. You're expected to learn it on your own. Generally speaking, specific languages are used where it makes sense with a slight bias towards Java, if any language will do. Students will generally fall back on Java, but usually the professors are OK with whatever language you use.
It don't really see a need for courses such as C 101, Erlang 101, Scala 101 etc. in computer science. A computer scientist should be taught to pick up any language fast and it's IMHO better to teach the underlying concepts.
Are we off-topic yet?
Previous post corrected. This is what I originally thought. Since this is true....why does Apple still have previous versions installed?
Well, at my university (where Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++) was educated once upon a time) Java is taught in the first programming course, and further on in a more advanced course, but that's about it. Other languages such as ML and prolog are touched upon in a more general purpose programming language course, and ML is used intermittently with java in a compiler course. C is used in an operating systems course where you mess around with the Linux kernel and scripting languages such as Python have been used in courses such as Distributed Systems and Bioinformatics (I used Ruby in that class, just for the fun of it). C++ is used extensively in a game development course. None of these languages are taught as such, except Java. You're expected to learn it on your own. Generally speaking, specific languages are used where it makes sense with a slight bias towards Java, if any language will do. Students will generally fall back on Java, but usually the professors are OK with whatever language you use.
It don't really see a need for courses such as C 101, Erlang 101, Scala 101 etc. in computer science. A computer scientist should be taught to pick up any language fast and it's IMHO better to teach the underlying concepts.
Are we off-topic yet?
From what your describing...the courses sound good
Also...we have reached the off-topic realm....after falling a very high cliff.....
You got me backwards. I said code compiled for Java 6 can't run on previous versions (like Java 5). Yes, you can go from earlier to later, say 5 to 6.
I think you're right though; I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
Because, for example, I have to compile one of my projects with Java 5 to deploy on AIX where Java 6 isn't available. And it's only about a half year ago that I only had Java 1.4.2 available on that system.
I need to be able support Java 1.4.2, Java 5, and Java 6 JVMs, so I need all of them to build applications.
Sometimes developers have to work around bugs in certain Java releases. So I might write some code to compensate for that bug in Apples 1.4.2 release. But then Java 5 came out and Apple fixed the bug. Until I update my application and you download and install it, you're running code that works around a non-existent bug (in Java 5), which as a result probably introduces new, unwanted behavior. But if you fall back to 1.4.2 you get the benefit of running it exactly like it used to run.
That is one reason, but there are several others. Even though the JDK is backwards compatible, you're still running with a new set of implementation classes from an updated JDK, which may change the way your app runs in a way that you don't like.
True....for a developer. The common user though may not need them all (I don't mind).
