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Apple Aiming to Begin Electric Car Production in 2020
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Sorry, they are now working on an electric car, and can only do one thing at at time. Once it is complete, and all the bugs are worked out, then maybe they'll do something else. The next version of the Apple Watch will be out in 2025.
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Some analyst. That's the same as a promise, right?
Here is what Musk had to say about that:
"Hydrogen is an energy storage mechanism. It is not a source of energy. So you have to get that hydrogen from somewhere. if you get that hydrogen from water, so you're splitting H20, electrolysis is extremely inefficient as an energy process . if you say took a solar panel and use the energy from that to just charge a battery pack directly, compared to try to split water, take the hydrogen, dump the oxygen, compress the hydrogen to an extremely high pressure (or liquefy it) and then put it in a car and run a fuel-cell, it is about half the efficiency, it's terrible. Why would you do that? It makes no sense."
The reason they should not acquire Tesla is because they've already progressed so far down their technology / R&D path they are married to their choices.
Apple can start fresh with newer designs/concepts and is not invested in a path. Having the benefit of watching a few predecessors swing, miss, and fail is critical toward making the right choices.
Again they weren't the first smart phone they looked to be the best just as they will with this market.
Apple can start fresh with newer designs/concepts and is not invested in a path. Having the benefit of watching a few predecessors swing, miss, and fail is critical toward making the right choices.
Again they weren't the first smart phone they looked to be the best just as they will with this market.
Where did they come than? They were not made up rumors and yes the announcements did come from Apple, try Google for your research.
electricity --> electric motor
vs
water --> electrolysis --> hydrogen --> fuel cell --> electricity --> electric motor
There are plenty of circuit boards in cars already, so that's a wash.
I'll take the reliability and durability of electric motors over internal combustion engines, fuel, exhaust and emissions systems any day.
When an electric motor goes bad it essentially involves 4 bolts and 2 wires to replace it.
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Cars nowadays are fundamentally complicated. The user interface is really bad. You almost need a PHD to use them.
Then you shouldn't be on a "rumors" site. That's the whole point of this site's existence.
Somehow I just don't think it's believable. Apple is into business with high margins, manufacturing and selling automobile isn't as profitable as their currently product especially with fierce competition from existing companies.
The business model is also too different than what their are doing now. They are better off incubating an Apple-majority owned new company than to do it on their own (like they did with ARM).
So I'm in the camp that they are researching technologies to be sold for cars, that could make an improvement to driving experience. This allows them to partner with any car-manufacturer and sell or license their tech to and making high margins that way.
The business model is also too different than what their are doing now. They are better off incubating an Apple-majority owned new company than to do it on their own (like they did with ARM).
So I'm in the camp that they are researching technologies to be sold for cars, that could make an improvement to driving experience. This allows them to partner with any car-manufacturer and sell or license their tech to and making high margins that way.
A circuit board in one of todays cars has a much higher chance of failure than the camshaft does. And the motors in electric vehicles are not just held in by 4 bolts and two wires! In some models they are even integrated into the transmission. This is not meant to be personal, but the amount of automotive ignorance in these threads really hurts my head. Everyone has this vision of electric vehicles being as simplistic as radio controlled models just scaled up. The reality is they are highly complex machines. Take a look at some of the drive chain schematics, really great engineering, but not "simple".
A general observation about the Intenet
You don't do very good thinking when you sneer.
I don't know about this. Who could? To get to consumer prices on electric vehicles, there are battery and electronic advances to be resolved. Tesla will need a big cash infusion before they bring out the $30,000 "people's electric" car. Maybe a very rich company with a lot of the exactly right chops could, well, not buy Tesla, but supply them with this 'n' that, and loan them capital, and get a minority share? Interlocking boards?
A lot is possible. The car needs to be redefined.
You don't do very good thinking when you sneer.
I don't know about this. Who could? To get to consumer prices on electric vehicles, there are battery and electronic advances to be resolved. Tesla will need a big cash infusion before they bring out the $30,000 "people's electric" car. Maybe a very rich company with a lot of the exactly right chops could, well, not buy Tesla, but supply them with this 'n' that, and loan them capital, and get a minority share? Interlocking boards?
A lot is possible. The car needs to be redefined.
You're oversimplifying the first... its more:
[electricity source --> battery] --> electricity --> electric motor
vs
[water --> electrolysis --> hydrogen --> fuel cell] --> electricity --> electric motor
The second method stated may be inefficient for now; but represents a [a promise of] cleaner way to power an electric motor. In the first method, your electricity still comes from an outlet, which may come from an electric company, which may be generating electricity a number of different ways (nuclear... coal-burning... gas burning... etc).
Then you need to store that power into a battery large enough to run the motor to drive from point A to point B.
I get what your implying put its longer on both sides
===========
Electric Car
Its
Mining/Drilling
gas/oil
Coal
--- Transport Boat/Train/pipeline ---- Power Plant --- Transport - Car
or
Building
Nuclear
Hydro -------------- Transport --- car
Solar/Wind/Waves/Geotherm Plant
One of the major advantage of electricity is in the end point distribution. Disadvantage for now, especially for long trip, slow charging.
=====
Other side
Right now, hydrogen mostly comes from byproduct of hydrocarbon extraction (which still occur in the electricity scenario)
But, there are many other ways that have been developed
Electrolysis using renewables as source (there are new ways to do so)
Photobiological water splitting
Photocatalytic water splitting
Fermentative hydrogen production
Enzymatic hydrogen generation
Electrohydrogenesis
Water and various other organics --- Extraction Plant (may needs Electricity) --- Transport ---- Fueling station --- Car
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So, while I sort of get Musk argument, if you're actually using coal/gas or oil to produce electricity, it is not as strong that's for sure.
Electric
Pros - Electricity has the distribution advantage.
Pros - Electric motor is simple, not a new tech at all
Pros - Torque
Pros - Great if your energy is generated from renewables
Cons - If your energy comes from gas, even worse from coal
Fuel Cell
Pros - Hydrogen fuel cells, with current battery tech, have a distinct energy storage per volume advantage
http://www.rebresearch.com/blog/hydrogen-versus-battery-power/
Neutral - Not a new tech, but a newer tech than electric motors. Hydrogen though is a very clean and predictable fuel, you'd expect a very high level of reliability from such an engine.
Neutral - New tech, many new ways of generating it from water are emerging. If everything comes from water and renewables, its greater energy density would make it competitive with electric cars (both can live side by side though).
Cons - You don'T get the instant power surge of electric.
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The Toyota Mirai from the looks of it means that fuel cell tech is ready to start the long road hybrids started 15 years ago.
I concur.
Cars with CVT transmissions are seriously boring, not too much unlike riding a tram. Great for people that love (or need) to be driven around, dreadful to those who are skilled_ Drivers_.
Yet it's the complacent masses that are "excited" over the idea of self driving cars, electric cars, and the thought of the overly hyped "green" cleanliness.
Make no mistake, I too care deeply about our environment, but placing so much blame on gasoline engines when we're making such great strides on reducing emissions to negligible levels only proves the governments power over the people.
I believe a balance of various types of "power units" in cars could be achieved to satisfy most everyone. I'm certainly not Anti-Electric under any circumstances. I simply believe in choices.
Regarding the other car companies that have voiced an opinion that they don't think Apple should get into the business, it's not because they feel threatened. Many people on this forum would think that, but it would take several decades of Apple building the best car on the planet before they'd be a remote threat.
If Apple Automotive Inc. becomes one of the choices I'll welcome another competitor in the industry.
Second method, electricity is still needed for electrolysis, so same thing applies to FCV's and doesn't make them cleaner
You wanna add the source and storage, then
FCV = water + electricity source --> electrolysis --> H2 --> hydrogen tank --> fuel cell --> electricity --> electric motor
On top of that there's practically zero H2 refueling infrastructure, you can't refuel from home, and FCV's are so expensive here in the US they're lease only at $500 each.
FCV's = Natural Gas Vehicle 2.0
The problem is you use more energy to produce the hydrogen. Electricity can be from the sun, or natural gas or hydro or any number of plentiful, renewable sources.
You are 10+ years to late, they were already in the car business. But hey, anything to bash them, right!?!?!?
Don't do it, man. Just give me an iPod with text that I can actually READ
or even SEE
and a decent way to scroll through my audiobooks.
Hydrogen can also be produced from the sun (or bacterias/sun) or through chemical reactions, etc. There's more than one way. Look up the wiki page.
Did you call natural gas a renewable? A lot of electricity is not coming from renewable now, or for the foreseeable future in many parts of the world. Though that could change as tech evolves.
Electricity has a distribution advantage, but there are certain scenarios were hydrogen would be advantageous. Those were you need a big amount of energy with minimal weight (say, public transport, trucks, trains, etc). Wonder if that could work for sports cars
.Hybrid fuel cell/electric cars are I think the way Toyota is going, the Mirai is one.
I believe Tesla said they would not pursue legal action against anyone who used their charging technology in good faith.
If Apple builds an electric car, somehow using the Tesla charging infrastructure would be a wise move. From July 2014 until now Tesla has averaged the construction of one Supercharger facility every 22 hours. Think of how plentiful Tesla Superchargers will be in five years.