I think they mean in the Apple Stores where the promotions are. Not on our HOME computers.amnesiac1984 said:
I can't seriously believe you thought that...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple and Nike?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
I can't seriously believe you thought that...
i dont like to be bothered with where my shoes were made or by who. if they look good, are of high quality, and reasonibly priced, ill buy them.
hmm, that approach isnt that different than how i purchase my computers. hmmmmmm
hmm, that approach isnt that different than how i purchase my computers. hmmmmmm
autrefois
macrumors 65816
jsw said:(1) Dude, if it weren't for capitalism, we'd all be "third world" and we'd all use child labor. Bad or good by itself, the capitalist-driven industrial age gave us the machines that got us past child labor. Unless you're Amish (doubtful, given the email...
If it weren't for socialists and progressives fighting against raw capitalism, we wouldn't have the 40-hour work week or even the idea of "weekends," and we wouldn't have child labor laws in the US. Check your facts before making blanket statements, please.
jsw said:(2) Hey, man, it doesn't bother me that democrats are "purchased and paid for". I'm a capitalist, so I'm cool with that.
If you say so.
jsw said:
I don't know if not buying Nike will help, but if companies were really there to help 3rd world countries, as someone suggested, then they'd pay them a livable wage and not force children to work.
jsw said:
Well we're the Mac faithful, and tons of people are voting negative and posting their doubts about this partnership, so my guess is that there are at least some non-Mac people who would not support this.
Wonder Boy said:
forgive me for the seemingly off topic question, but do/did you support the war in iraq?
Sweatshops
1) In the history of the U.S. our economy has depended, literally for its life for long periods, on slavery and sweatshop labor. A lot of coal and hard rock miners, steel workers, and administrative assistants might argue that we still have sweatshops.
2) In some countries people have a choice between a (relatively) good wage and starving or resorting to crime. You could say they are forced into this and mistreated (and you would be right in a lot of cases), but sometimes the survival instinct makes people desperate. If Nike made their shoes somewhere else and charged 4x as much, honestly, would you buy their shoes? I guess it is better that you don't know exactly how laws, sausages, or shoes are made.
1) In the history of the U.S. our economy has depended, literally for its life for long periods, on slavery and sweatshop labor. A lot of coal and hard rock miners, steel workers, and administrative assistants might argue that we still have sweatshops.
2) In some countries people have a choice between a (relatively) good wage and starving or resorting to crime. You could say they are forced into this and mistreated (and you would be right in a lot of cases), but sometimes the survival instinct makes people desperate. If Nike made their shoes somewhere else and charged 4x as much, honestly, would you buy their shoes? I guess it is better that you don't know exactly how laws, sausages, or shoes are made.
nike is eveeel
on one end nike pays hundreds of millions of dollars to sports stars to promote their shoes, on the other end, childred are paid appallingly in sweatshops in poor countries to make them
for apple to allign itself with nike is a disasterous brand association
what next?, monsanto, esso, the bush administration...
on one end nike pays hundreds of millions of dollars to sports stars to promote their shoes, on the other end, childred are paid appallingly in sweatshops in poor countries to make them
for apple to allign itself with nike is a disasterous brand association
what next?, monsanto, esso, the bush administration...
weev said:
monsanto? awesome! you're from australia? i didn't realize their evil was realized worldwide... or at least by people who care to look. have you read "toxic deception"?
jelloshotsrule said:
yes i do suppport the war. i support the war on terrorizism more, but we must finish the job in iraq.
jsw said:
Are you trolling?
How can you possibly argue that if enough people stop buying Nike, they won't change their business practices? Recent organized protests/boycotts have already made Nike make some concessions regarding their workforce.
Granted, these organizers aren't "realists" like you. Thank god.
I think the real reason you want to get the thread back on topic is because you've painted yourself into a corner.
El Tritoma said:
Are you even listening to yourself?
How could employees making living wages possibly raise the price of the shoe 400%?
The labor costs involved in the final price of sneakers is miniscule compared to the costs involved regarding endorsements/advertising.
sweatshops sicken me
jsw, and the likes of you who claim that wanting to avoid sweatshops is about ignorance, you sicken me too.
this is a gross move. this makes me mad. this makes me not want to buy from apple. yes, i am sure there are issues with apple itself, but as many have said here, so publicly embracing and benefiting from a brand that has been clearly labeled as sweatshoppers and brutal tyrants over their cheap labor is really a horrible thing.
www.nikewages.org
it is not about a job, it is about human rights, it is about humiliation, torture, and killing.
jsw, and the likes of you who claim that wanting to avoid sweatshops is about ignorance, you sicken me too.
this is a gross move. this makes me mad. this makes me not want to buy from apple. yes, i am sure there are issues with apple itself, but as many have said here, so publicly embracing and benefiting from a brand that has been clearly labeled as sweatshoppers and brutal tyrants over their cheap labor is really a horrible thing.
www.nikewages.org
it is not about a job, it is about human rights, it is about humiliation, torture, and killing.
bar italia said:
Sorry. Had to drive to pick up my daughter. I don't think I'm painted into any corner whatsoever.
No, the real reason I want to get the thread back on topic is that this is a religious discussion that is outside the Apple topic. But, what the hell...
If you choose to believe that boycotting Nike by yourself or by the thousands will truly improve sweatshop conditions, then by all means do so. I disagree.
The basis of your argument seems to be that (a) boycotting Nike will force them to make substantial changes; (b) that those substantial changes will positively impact the conditions in their overseas factories; and (c) that those positive impacts will produce a net overall good.
I simply disagree with you. I think, in the big picture, a decision to buy a Nike shoe isn't the political statement you seem to make it out to be. Of course, any leather shoe or product is likely made from South American beef hides - so I assume that, if you own any leather goods, you support Amazon deforestation.
The truth is that you can't simply pick on one thing you don't like and think changing that will make the world better. It might, but it's really hard to know ahead of time. Plus, I disagree with your contention that sweatshop laborers think they're being exploited. Of course they'll accept better conditions. I'd love it if my employer would buy me a fancy car. But not if doing so put them out of business and left me without a job.
gelbin said:
Wow. Now I feel personally responsible for torturing and killing people because I buy Nike shoes. Not.
You see, I don't disagree with Nike. You do. You think changing Nike will change the world. And yet, your sole means of showing this disagreement seems to be to boycott Nike. Instead, why don't you go to help the people in the sweatshops? Send them money, buy them food, whatever. Stop sitting in front of your computer discussing how unfair the real world is.
However, I support any move by Apple which might increase sales of Apple products. It's smart marketing. And I seriously doubt that there will be any large-scale backlash because you can choose Nike shoe colors in an Apple Store.
jsw said:
Yes. Nike workers getting a living wage is comparable with the make of your car.
Yes. Nike paying their workers a living wage would bankrupt them.
This says a lot. You'd support the company that makes your computer -- regardless of what they do -- as long as it increases their profits.jsw said:
Either you're the most mindlessly loyal consumer/sheep ever, or you're a troll.
Time will tell.jsw said:
Both Apple and Nike are outsourcing their jobs overseas, so maybe it's a match made in heaven.
I do agree with the people saying that why, if Apple has this "Think Different." motto, why they are going so mainstream lately, sad times.
I do agree with the people saying that why, if Apple has this "Think Different." motto, why they are going so mainstream lately, sad times.
I just went by the apple store here in San Francisco. They didn't even know anything about it. I had to tell them what was on the site.
gelbin said:
From Trillium Asset Management, a pro-labor inventment site, at http://www.trilliuminvest.com/pages/activism/activism_issuedetail.asp?IssueID=27 :
"Sweatshops are a pervasive problem. No large company can guarantee that none of their products are made in sweatshops."
Assuming that this is true, then there is no way to know that any product you buy which isn't locally made from local material produced by people you know doesn't in some way involve sweatshops somewhere along the line.
Therefore:
(1) Apple can't guarantee they don't use sweatshops.
(2) Apple cannot enter into a business relationship with anyone who can make that guarantee.
(3) You can't guarantee that you aren't, in fact, promoting sweatshops when you buy an alternative product.
Therefore, given that I like Apple and I like Nike, there's no way to prove that the Apple-Nike alliance is in any way worse than any other single or combined business, and I like their products. So I'll buy their products.
And those third-world countries? They'll be better off if the global economy is better off.
kotovasii said:It is clear that you have spent a great deal of time in those countries to say about their standards!
This attitude is soooo much like that Bill Gates you people do not like!
PS we have to be responsible even if it concerns Apple.
I do. I lived in one of them for 24 years. And I agree 100% with what TEG said. It's very easy to say "Nike is terrible because they employ child labor and don't pay by US standards", but people don't think about the fact that this child most of the time is bringing more money (proportionally to the country standards) than any teenager here in the US working at the local McDonalds. Take that away from them and they will starve and die. Or will you go and feed them?
Daschund said:
Thank you.
I don't think that anyone thinks slave-wage child labor is good. It is, however, better than the alternatives for many.
To all the anti-Nike posters:
If you truly think that boycotting Nike will improve the conditions in the countries containing their sweatshops, then I support your decision to boycott them. I disagree, but I don't think you're idiots. I am sorry if that boycott forces you to buy PCs instead of Macs.
I wish you'd respect that fact that not everyone agrees with you, and they aren't idiots because they believe differently. You act like this is clear-cut. It isn't.
Wonder Boy said:
so you can't be bothered with the conditions that your shoes are made in... why did you support going to iraq?
to all those saying that the kids are better off with the jobs.... who cares? that doesn't mean that we shouldn't work to improve them further... yes, i'm better off making 10 cents an hour than not getting anything, but should i settle for that when i'm being kicked and beaten (physically, and emotionally) along the way?
weev said:
Well, given that Gore's on the board, at least you needn't worry about that last one.
- Status