Apple and RealNetworks Alliance?

[jackc]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but every article I see about the iPod fails to mention that you can play MP3s on it, not just AACs from iTunes. (Let's face it, that's what most people care about.)

Not that the iPod is doing poorly, but for people who might not know any better, seeing "Apple" and "incompatible" all over the place can't be good. Need a little better PR, Apple?

 

[MacSlut]

The market cap of Real Networks is 1.12B. Apple has 4 times that amount in cash reserves *and* zero debt.

Apple should purchase Real Networks.

RealMedia servers should be rebranded as iTunes Media Servers and given away for free.

The RealPlayer should be killed with the functionality incorporated into iTunes. Recordability of allowed streams (complete with scheduling) should be allowed so content can be played anytime or downloaded to the iPod.

What Apple should *not* do is sign a deal with Real Networks that's based on driving demand to the iPod at the expense of losing iTMS customers.

Just to be clear, what I meant was that Apple should take the RealMedia server software, tweak it and bundle it for free with Xserves.

 

[jocknerd]

I would think the alliance would be a good thing. iTMS is meant to support iPod sales, and if Apple can get more stores to use FairPlay and work with iPod, iPod will sell even more. I, for one, know two people who bought a different player because they wanted to 'leave their options open' for what online store to ally with... And if Real makes a Mac compatible good player, that could be another good thing (make Macs seem better for other services, too).

The only thing I wonder right now is, what if a service goes down? What happens to all the purchased music? If Apple stopped the iTMS, what would happen to all the 50+ songs I've purchased? Would Apple just set up a server to 'authorize' new computers in the future? Would Apple let me deauthorize the songs so that I can use them with other computers/software? I stick with iTMS because I think it will at least be one of the dominant stores, if not the best.

This is why DRM sucks. And why PlayFair is such an important piece of software. Even is Apple is trying to get rid of it. After all, it was Steve Jobs himself who said that people don't want to rent their music, they want to own it. Well if we own it, Steve, don't we have the right to do with it what we want, as long as we don't share it?

 

[topicolo]

on one hand i would like apple to tell him to f... off (which steve in his wisdom surely will do) on the other hand i see a huge potential and am afraid of isolationism. has happened to the mac before, don't want it to happen to the whole music story here too. so yeah, take him up on it steve, your enemy's enemy should be your friend

I don't think apple would lose much if they did. Real isn't a big player in this market and they just don't wanna get squished by MS. Apple doesn't need them.

 

[RogerQ]

Please help me understand...

This deal obviously would help ipod sales.

Why would this help iPod sales?

Are there songs you can buy from Real that you can't get at iTunes? If you can get the songs you want at iTunes, why do you care if you can't buy them from Real?

 

[aussiemac86]

It is inevitable that other players will arrive which will be able to compete with the ipod, for example M$'s player which will surely be out soon. I think apple really needs to put alot more resources into getting as many ipods out there into consumers hands as soon as possible. Here in Australia the mini won't even be available till end of june/july. They have the oppurtunity to take a large chunk of marketshare right now, and the larger it is the more it will nullify the effect of M$ and sony releasing new players and trying to compete.
But as soon as a serious alternative to the ipod is released this oppurtunity will evaporate very quickly.

Time is of the essence.
I dont think they need the extra demand for ipod that the deal with real would produce, they need firstly to just supply the existing demand, before they lose it forever.

 

[MrMacMan]

Apple needs to license the software to Real Network.

They need to stop them from going with Microsoft on this.


Apple is gonna need some help when Microsoft enters the market.


They need this.

There are few downsides here.

 

[davecuse]

Apple already has the best Windows application out there. Why would they need to have RealPlayer, which sucks (and installs a ton of trialware) to corner the music segment. Real brings nothing to they table, they have offered horrible software for a very long time and will most likely continue to do so.

The only possible perk of this idea would be if some of the content that is currently (poorly) streamed in Real format, would be available to me in iTunes. I would like to hear some more streaming radio in iTunes, and hey maybe Real can help this out, but in the big picture what do they really bring to the table?

 

[Inspector Lee]

Apple needs to license the software to Real Network.

They need to stop them from going with Microsoft on this.


Apple is gonna need some help when Microsoft enters the market.


They need this.

There are few downsides here.

I thought RealNetworks was suing Microsoft for a billion dollars?

They must be really on the ropes - note the way Glaser seems to be "John Wayne-ing it" here. What cajones. Nonetheless, this is AAC v. WMA and Apple needs as many soldiers it can get for this fight. They gotta open up.

 

[leftbanke7]

This is why DRM sucks. And why PlayFair is such an important piece of software. Even is Apple is trying to get rid of it. After all, it was Steve Jobs himself who said that people don't want to rent their music, they want to own it. Well if we own it, Steve, don't we have the right to do with it what we want, as long as we don't share it?

You're absolutely right. People don't want to rent their music. However, the RIAA holds the trump card in this little scenario (ie. the music) therefore, S.J. has to play by their rules for the greater good of the company (ie. more iPod sales).

And I feel that access on 3 computers with ability to change those computers (through deauthorization) over time and unlimited burns is pretty much allowing people to do what they want with the music.

I believe it said on the PlayFair website "information wants to be free". When did intellectual property ever get thrown into this equation?

 

[frankly]

wow. Real mustbe hurting bad. and ya - this would be bad for M$. I don't care about M$ though - I always want whats best for us and for Apple.

I don't see how this means that Real is hurting. I think this would be great for Apple. They have said all along that they only have the iTunes music store to sell more iPods. This would help that cause. Keep in mind that the number of iPods sold this past quarter was more than the number of computers sold for the first time ever. iPod sales are rocking!!!!!

Later, Frank

 

[frankly]

Would Real be using AAC for their audio too, then? Or just the DRM system on top of the RealAudio format?

Real already uses AAC. Even better, they encode their AAC at 192kbps. I bet it sounds great. So, it looks like they simply want to add the Fairplay DRM on top of their AAC.

Plus Real offers an unlimited access plan that allows you to listen to full length versions of every song they sell as many times as you want. I think the only catch is that you couldn't burn them to CD unless you pay for the songs you want to burn onto a CD.

Later, Frank

 

[frankly]

Aren't they out of money? They got pulled from LA & Chicago (pretty funny).

Anyway, I think Apple & Real should team up or Apple should buy Real.

Sorry to be off topic but that was a BS story propagated by Matt Drudge. It was not true. In reality they were trying to get a prepayment back that they had made for February. The station didn't actually start until March and the radio station that they had pre-leased the time from resold that time and wanted Air America to still pay.

Later, Frank

 

[oingoboingo]

God I despise comments like this.
Pepsi sucks. Stay away from them.
McDonald's sucks. Don't do business with them.
Nike sucks. How could Apple do business with them?
Now Real.
Better be careful or the only company Apple will be allowed to team up with is some adult toy shop down in LA.

Grow a pair and realize this IS FREAKING BUSINESS. If Apple want to survive the coming tidal wave of music related products and services they NEED to complete and just because Apple owns 70% of the market for its music store and 30% for music players doesn't mean that can't change.

Realize one and ONLY one thing. This market is about to get a 1000 lbs gorilla tossed into the ring when Microsoft decides to release their music store. Guess what 60 billion with a capital B and a 95% market share will buy MS when it comes to negotiating with the RIAA? Anything it wants. Apple needs allies like HP and they need support from companies like Real. Take your ideals somewhere else because they have no place in the business world.

True, true, all true.

But there is still no denying Real Player is a stinking piece of crap, and Real Networks are a bunch of retarded arse-monkeys.

 

[gerardrj]

Question to the "open fairplay" comments

Given:
that the iTMS seems to exist mostly to sell iPods (though it is slightly profitable)
iTMS only sells FairPlay/AAC files
the iPod is the most popular line of portable music players
You need iTunes to get music to the iPod
If you want to use an iPod, the you'll be using iTunes
iTunes has the music store built in
iTMS has the best price/rights setup in the industry

Why would Apple want to license any of the technology to anyone, especially a company that has treated Mac users as useless? Their site has this to say about their content "RealRhapsody music service is not available for Macintosh users".

Even if Apple did license Fairplay, who does Real think would want to download tracks from a web browser or another app, import them to iTunes then send them to the iPod? How would Real market their music service? "Look, we don't make the best player, we don't have the best store and we don't have the best jukebox, but if you do use our store, the files are compatible with the tracks you get from the leading one, and it only takes two extra steps to move them over."

Does it now have, or would the Real player suddenly sprout, a jukebox and iPod management interface if the deal went through? How would it interact with iTunes' management of the iPod?

 

[maxterpiece]

because...

Why would this help iPod sales?

Are there songs you can buy from Real that you can't get at iTunes? If you can get the songs you want at iTunes, why do you care if you can't buy them from Real?

The quote you took from my post was sort of besides the point i was making, but I still think my statement was an accurate one. Some people- call them dumb, call them ignorant, call them apathetic - are going to use real's music store. Maybe only because real is already on their computer, maybe because a real ad happens to be the ad that they notice and remember... Real will recommend ipods to these users. Some of them will buy ipods. Just because ITMS is better, doesn't mean that people will know that. Remember, real's multimedia streaming software is at least as widely distributed as quicktime and is definitely more widely used in the distribution of content (see Amazon).

 

[Krrill]

Apple officially turned down the deal. So ends the posts =)

 

[elgruga]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but every article I see about the iPod fails to mention that you can play MP3s on it, not just AACs from iTunes. (Let's face it, that's what most people care about.)

Not that the iPod is doing poorly, but for people who might not know any better, seeing "Apple" and "incompatible" all over the place can't be good. Need a little better PR, Apple?

It isnt mentioned enough, thats for sure. This post hits the nail on the head - its PR that controls everything in our world - and Apple need reminding of that.

Maybe Real Player isnt so hot, but if it makes people think that Apple is compatible, then its a good thing.

Pity the world isnt as simple as we would like it to be, eh?

 

[alandail]

Apple should not only do this, but also allow any other music store to support fairplay DRM for AAC files. Prince just opened his own online music store that includes music that can't be found anywhere else. Because of DRM issues, thje store is WMA based only. So you can't copy these files to the iPod or to iTunes. You also can't burn a CD from a mac because of Micorsoft's lousy implementation of wmp9 for the mac. If Apple would simply license out FairPlay, these issues would go away. People are still going to come to Apple's store first, because it's built right into iTunes. But the more important issue is to drive iPod sales, which only brings more people to being Apple customers, thus making them more likely to consider switching to a mac.

 

[Hiroshige]

New York Times: Apple says NO

Apple Rebuffs RealNetworks' Approach
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: April 16, 2004

Filed at 1:00 a.m. ET

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Apple Computer Inc. apparently doesn't want to sing the same tune as its Internet music rival RealNetworks Inc.

Seattle-based RealNetworks said Thursday that Apple chairman Steve Jobs had rebuffed an offer by RealNetworks' chief executive Rob Glaser to meet and discuss forming an online music alliance involving Apple's best-selling iPod portable players.

....

``Steve just doesn't want to open the iPod, and we don't understand that.''

....

[wow, since macrumors is one hour behind me, it looks like I got news from the future]

 

[rwclark]

Apple should really do this. The prospect of WMA becoming some kind of de facto standard worries me.

 

[smartypantsguy]

You don't have to install RealPlayer to play their stuff

I simply ignore any and every site that requires realplayer - I refuse to even have the program on my machine.

---------------

I've installed "RealAlternative", and it's a godsend... Plays all realmedia, but without all the Real C**P !!

Wouldn't be able to listen to "AirAmericaRadio.com" if I didn't have it... (Which, BTW, should be using Quicktime... C'mon Steve, aren't you a Leftie ? ?).

 

[thatwendigo]

"Steve just doesn't want to open the iPod, and we don't understand that.''

What isn't there to understand, really? Apple wants to control what goes on the iPod, so that they can keep a firm hold over the format and sales. It's simple.

I think he just doesn't want to have to go back to being owned by his old bosses at Microsoft.

Well if we own it, Steve, don't we have the right to do with it what we want, as long as we don't share it?

Actually, pay attention to things like software license agreements. You kind of sign away multiple rights when you do many of the things you take for granted on your computer. I don't agree with it, I think that it's ridiculous to place that kind of restriction on your customers, but lawyers have to make money somehow, I suppose.

 

[mhar4]

True, true, all true.

But there is still no denying Real Player is a stinking piece of crap, and Real Networks are a bunch of retarded arse-monkeys.

That was my point.

 

[mhar4]

---------------

I've installed "RealAlternative", and it's a godsend... Plays all realmedia, but without all the Real C**P !!

Is there an OSX version?