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Anybody else worried that the iPod might not be promoted as long as Real says? If it is just promotion what do you think the Real customers (and I say that with some confusion) will buy- what's better or what's in all the magazines. What if other companies start to make AAC players.

i think Apple needs to be a cheap french whore right now to entrench themselves in this market.

And hope Real stops being such a flippin' dominatrix. :D

I think I need a cold shower...
 
applemacdude said:
If Real and Apple get together, they would surely kick microsucks ass
I don't understand this mentality. Sure I love Apple... but I sure as hell hate REAL. I don't see this being true.

APPLE + REAL = Microsoft losing money

Microsoft will be making billions while everyone else makes millions. It's how a monopoly works no matter what.
 
Deja vu?

Didn't Real do this when QT streaming was the buzz word?

They were into working with Apple (jobs gave the upper nose) then bailed to compete solo. Then Windows media player came around and now Real and Windows are flippin each other off, as Apple gets short end...again.

(Ok, QT movie previews are great niche but...most news sites are doing RM or wmv. Ugh)
 
I know the Real Music Store already uses AAC, because I saw a pop up ad of theirs on a PC saying they have the best quality or something. They use higher than 128 bitrate AAC files

But, you can't even use their service on a Mac. If them partnering with Apple means you'll be able to then at least it's one more thing you can use on the Mac and that's a good thing. iTunes has the biggest current selection and the best store, but the fact is it's also the only choice for Mac users. Most people would still only use iTunes if all the other stores became Mac compatible, but right now we can't if we wanted to.

Since Real has their own exclusive tracks, i think it would be cool to be able to get songs from them AND iTunes. You have a better selection, more choice, and they both use AAC files with the same DRM restrictions.

For Mac users who use iTMS a lot, I think this is a good thing if it happens.
 
Calebj14 said:
that was pretty stupid, but maybe youre sorta right that apple knew about it ahead of time and it was purposely leaked? :confused:
Yeah, I know. I just realised that I was showing signs of turning into a conspiracy theorist so I just thought I would go all the way. I do however still think there's a chance there is some marketing plot here that we don't see.
 
Apple owns the music market because they invented the market. They still own the market because they're so far ahead of everybody trying to catch up, and yes, EVERYBODY is trying to catch up and get a piece of the action.

If apple seriously thinks it can go it alone against the likes of microsoft, sony, et al. (who may well do various partnerships so they can collectively work against apple) then all I can say is they will pay for their hubris. It doesn't matter if apple is better, bigger companies can sell at a loss that apple just can't afford, until apple is relegated to a very apple like position. After all, that's the story on apple computers, right? Don't underestimate the competition, apple. Just because they haven't provided anything like actual competition yet, doesn't mean they won't. Enough money and power can do most anything. Remember netscape, people?

And, honestly, what has apple to loose with this? real going to wma, that's all. Look, it's perfectly microsoftian-if apple doesn't pair with real, and by doing so sell more ipods, increase it's credibility and AAC's market share, real player will have to go to ms to avoid imminent death, courtesy of apple and microsoft. Instead, what they'll get is maybe a year of being a tool for microsoft, letting microsoft get it's foot in the door on the market while it's still a little open, until they can use rediculous ammounts of money and software bundling (deal with lawsuits later) to get their own mediocre product on the market. Then, another x billion dollars and monopolistic manipulations, and they'll own the market, just by sheer force. Prices go up, all innovation stops, microsoft gets the market (plus rediculous profit margins). Meanwhile, real buys itself another year of partial existance before getting chewed up, swallowed, digested, and regurgitated into the trash can. And sure, lots of you don't like real, and don't care if it dissapears, but really, all that ammounts to is less competition in the market (and not to apple's advantage), which makes it easier to take over, and stiffles all signs of innovation, except perhaps in marketing campaigns.

Apple, use your head. If you go it alone, you'll end up with the best product out there, for sure, and you'll sell it to 3-5% of all people buying onine music/portable players, etc. That would be tragic.

This might not even be able to stop that, but it can at least put it off for a while, sell more ipods, and give you a better chance. I'm a mac loyalist, yes, but I still have enough logic to know that no matter how rosy the situation now, and no matter how much you kick ass, you're still in danger, sooner or later. It's a profitable buisness, you've got, and everybody wants it. And you're making the best, but you really aren't so hot at what whoever wins this market will do-make something adequate, but without a high end price tag. This is america-people buy the cheapest. (wal-mart).

Now I need to go rate this thing as positive, except that I'm not sure why it was leaked, and I'm worried it might be because somebody at apple realized it's not likely to happen, but needs to.
 
gekko513 said:
I think I got it now. This whole thing is actually planned. Real and Apple have already agreed to this deal but to get better press they do it this way instead of just announcing it once.

Now they get a proposal by Real followed by lots of speculation and press coverage which also will increase the interest for Apple's next public appearance followed by Apple making a statement at NAB where they say something about being interested in discussing the deal in more detail. This will of course also have the affect that more press-attention will be directed towards Apple when they release the new iFridge with AAC support at NAB.

Oh and the PowerBooks are actually made from a metal alloy taken from Area 51. The metal slowly melts when exposed to sweat and the metal is slowly taken up in our bloodstream. This will make the aliens able to take control of our bodies when they invade us in 2010. (The same goes for the iPod mini) :D


you hit the nail on the head
 
matthew24 said:
One reason for switching from Windows to Apple for me was MS abusing its propriety formats, if Apple starts doing the same I would really be ashamed. :mad: Apple should stay loyal to only supporting open standards, including fairplay. Steve you could spoil a lot of goodwill!!

Given that neither AAC nor FairPlay are owned by Apple, I don't think they're going to be doing the same.

~J
 
dontmatter said:
Apple owns the music market because they invented the market. They still own the market because they're so far ahead of everybody trying to catch up, and yes, EVERYBODY is trying to catch up and get a piece of the action.

If apple seriously thinks it can go it alone against the likes of microsoft, sony, et al. (who may well do various partnerships so they can collectively work against apple) then all I can say is they will pay for their hubris. It doesn't matter if apple is better, bigger companies can sell at a loss that apple just can't afford, until apple is relegated to a very apple like position. After all, that's the story on apple computers, right? Don't underestimate the competition, apple. Just because they haven't provided anything like actual competition yet, doesn't mean they won't. Enough money and power can do most anything. Remember netscape, people?

And, honestly, what has apple to loose with this? real going to wma, that's all. Look, it's perfectly microsoftian-if apple doesn't pair with real, and by doing so sell more ipods, increase it's credibility and AAC's market share, real player will have to go to ms to avoid imminent death, courtesy of apple and microsoft. Instead, what they'll get is maybe a year of being a tool for microsoft, letting microsoft get it's foot in the door on the market while it's still a little open, until they can use rediculous ammounts of money and software bundling (deal with lawsuits later) to get their own mediocre product on the market. Then, another x billion dollars and monopolistic manipulations, and they'll own the market, just by sheer force. Prices go up, all innovation stops, microsoft gets meanwhile. Meanwhile, real buys itself another year of partial existance before getting chewed up, swallowed, digested, and regurgitated into the trash can. And sure, lots of you don't like real, and don't care if it dissapears, but really, all that ammounts to is less competition in the market (and not to apple's advantage), which makes it easier to take over, and stiffles all signs of innovation, except perhaps in marketing campaigns.

Apple, use your head. If you go it alone, you'll end up with the best product out there, for sure, and you'll sell it to 3-5% of all people buying onine music/portable players, etc. That would be tragic.

This might not even be able to stop that, but it can at least put it off for a while, sell more ipods, and give you a better chance. I'm a mac loyalist, yes, but I still have enough logic to know that no matter how rosy the situation now, and no matter how much you kick ass, you're still in danger, sooner or later. It's a profitable buisness, you've got, and everybody wants it. And you're making the best, but you really aren't so hot at what whoever wins this market will do-make something adequate, but without a high end price tag. This is america-people buy the cheapest. (wal-mart).

Now I need to go rate this thing as positive, except that I'm not sure why it was leaked, and I'm worried it might be because somebody at apple realized it's not likely to happen, but needs to.

Brilliant response and analysis. This should be taped to Jobs' office door when he comes to work tomorrow.
 
Maybe even the new logo: Think Different and by the way....

edited- ah, I got nothin
 
I think that while Real teaming up with Apple may not be great idea, Apple continuing to see partmership deals with other suppliers where value and market penetration from the deal with the respective company for Apple and the iPod/.AAC format can help to strengthen Apple's position is a good idea.
 
I just re-read over that article. I think the funniest line is:
In spite of an early lead and highly regarded technology, the Mac lost out to the open computing platform created by Microsoft's Windows and now accounts for less than 5 per cent of desktop computer sales.
 
Realnetworks subscribtion growing fast

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentS...StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420375365
"RealNetworks said on Thursday that it added 100,000 new subscribers for its main online music services in the first three months of 2004 to reach 450,000 paid subscribers."

the subscription fee is $9.99/month, so already RNWK is getting about $45 million/year from this alone, but if RNWK is able to add 100K new users every 3.month, this revenue will increase quite a lot.

Apple only got about 75% marketshare in music DL if you use some funny restrictions like "pay per track numbers" and not mix in subscription too. Yes, Apple is currently getting more revenue from iTms than RNWK is getting from Rhapsody, but just like Apple, RNWK music revnue is increasing fast.
 
davecuse said:
I just re-read over that article. I think the funniest line is:


Yes, extremly funny how Apple went from 100% market share to less than 2% over a period of 20 years. We can only guess Apple ( Steve Jobs) didnt learn anything from it. While Microsoft licensed out Windows, Apple didnt license out MacOS before it was too late.
 
blabla said:
Yes, extremly funny how Apple went from 100% market share to less than 2% over a period of 20 years. We can only guess Apple ( Steve Jobs) didnt learn anything from it. While Microsoft licensed out Windows, Apple didnt license out MacOS before it was too late.

The Real funny thing is that Steve wasn't even around at apple when all that happened. And around 1994 Steve did licence Openstep and it run on more the 4 platforms, and it was still "too late."
 
Kagetenshi said:
Given that neither AAC nor FairPlay are owned by Apple, I don't think they're going to be doing the same.

~J

I know AAC isn't owned by Apple, but I thought FairPlay was. Otherwise, why would Real need to ask Apple to license FairPlay?
 
Wasn't this Glasner guy the same person that said iTMS is crap, or was that the Napster guy?
 
blabla said:
Yes, extremly funny how Apple went from 100% market share to less than 2% over a period of 20 years. We can only guess Apple ( Steve Jobs) didnt learn anything from it. While Microsoft licensed out Windows, Apple didnt license out MacOS before it was too late.

What's more 100% of 500.000 or 2% of say 38.000.000?

Apple is not after marketshare increase, but profit increase, do not confuse.

The other mistake is to confuse the Macintosh failure to become the dominating system and the iPods future. They are 2 different animals in different times.
 
not that this post really matters...

There are only 2 companies that can afford losing money on their music stores, well... maybe 3.

1. Microsoft
2. Apple
3. Sony (maybe)

If it isn't Windows, or Office, Microsoft loses money, so they are used to it. Apple may lose a small amount of money but they more than make up for it in iPod sales. Sony just has a bunch of money to throw at things, but it would ultimately have to be financially viable for them to continue their store. These are the true players.

Apple needs anyone they can get to compete against Microsoft in this battle, the REAL deal doesn't sound bad in the least, does it help save Real? Yes, but it also saves jobs(as in workforce) at Real which helps the economy, which helps Apple, not to mention it would sell more iPods. Jobs (as in CEO) is an idiot if he doesn't hook this up, does Real add any value to anything? No, but it will help market share, help fend off microsoft, and help sell iPods... all of which are in Apples best interest.
 
s10 said:
What's more 100% of 500.000 or 2% of say 38.000.000?

Apple is not after marketshare increase, but profit increase, do not confuse.

The other mistake is to confuse the Macintosh failure to become the dominating system and the iPods future. They are 2 different animals in different times.

Sorry if I post something similar twice..

Apple is clearly also after market share. Unlike Microsoft, Apple cant afford losing market share early in this emerging market.

As for the PC/Mac war and AAC+FairPlay/MWA war, I should probably used a car analogy instead :rolleyes: .. no, seriously.. I believe customers will feel vendor locked if they cant get the service they want, while other vensors provide the very same service. So, Im saying that Microsoft WILL change the rules of the subscription based services with "Janus", enabling the users to store subscription downloaded music to be stored on an mp3 player. Clearly, "Janus" will address some of the weaknesses of current subscription based services.

While Steve Jobs RDF'ed all of us Apple apologists into believing subscription based services sucks, but RNWK already got 450 000 subscribed, adding more than 100 000 new customers over a period of 3 months. This is even before any "Janus" technology is implemented!!

Im saying that Microsoft WILL change the rules of music dl business with "Janus". Thats why I feel the user should have the _option_ of using some subscription based service with their iPod. RNWK already got a big customer base ( probably closer to 600 000 before the end of the summer) and bringing them over to AAC+Fairplay, and thus iPod compatibility, could be a good thing (tm)
 
Mindshare

This deal obviously would help ipod sales. The drawback is apparently less music sales, but I think that people see Apple as sort of a maverick company that creates great products but refuses to compromise... The shadow of the apple of the early 90s still hangs over the apple of today - that is, it is a company that gets too arrogant and when it is successful. Agreeing to a deal with real would present apple as a company that is interested in broadening the market for their products. Real has never made a good piece of software and my guess is that their music store will never compare to apple's so, in the end i see the main effect of apple licensing fairplay would be showing the public just how dominant they are in online music business. People would see apple's technology as the one that is going to last.
 
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