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Yeah and since this deal is probably around 10-15 times profit it is a great deal. So yeah you had to correct the people who were confusing revenue, you still didn't have a valid point because a 15x earnings multiple is a good deal.

No you're totally wrong, my point is actually still valid. I didn't say whether I thought it was a good deal while making my point about the difference between revenue and profit.

That YOU choose to move the goalposts to falsely 'correct' my point is your problem, not mine.

My point is valid and stands on its own. Make your point stand on its own.

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Apple makes 3Bn in profits in 2.5 months with or without Beats.

The point was about the amount of profit that BEATS will generate.
 
Oh... Beats has a subscription music service. :confused: Does it come with a free copy of the The Chronic?
 
If any one wants to know if the tech world is racist, one only has to review this thread.

How so? Because people are calling out a thug exactly what he is? Nothing to do with his skin color. He's a gangsta thug police hater and those are the facts.

He could be green for all I care....he's an angry rapper with an axe to grind and that's that. The race card players are out in full force though, I can see that.
 
How are they badly made? I have the current version of the beats studio as well as a few friends. Great headphones in my opinion.

Their build quality is widely regarded as poor. I've had a few pairs of iBeats over the years, and they barely last 6 months.
 
beats employees...

I have a few friends who've worked for Beats for a few years.

The common theme is that Iovine is an awful, awful boss. Apparently most employees are poorly/under paid with the reasoning from upper management being "you're lucky to work here." Two of my friends told similar stories of Iovine actually yelling at groups of employees (with more "adult" language included) things like this.

And now he's part of our family. Great.

Worst of all (for the sake of my friends), very few employees were ever offered compensation that included options or shares in the company. And now many longer-term employees will be laid off with zero compensation or severance package (seriously none). Because that's how Iovine does business.

Yikes.
 
I have a few friends who've worked for Beats for a few years.

The common theme is that Iovine is an awful, awful boss. Apparently most employees are poorly/under paid with the reasoning from upper management being "you're lucky to work here." Two of my friends told similar stories of Iovine actually yelling at groups of employees (with more "adult" language included) things like this.

And now he's part of our family. Great.

Worst of all (for the sake of my friends), very few employees were ever offered compensation that included options or shares in the company. And now many longer-term employees will be laid off with zero compensation or severance package (seriously none). Because that's how Iovine does business.

Yikes.

I hear he also drowns puppies and kittens.:(
 
But any rights negotiated by Beats surely would be re-negotiated upon acquisition. If they music companies didn't put that in the contract, then they are fools.

Supposedly, and I only read this somewhere so take it with a grain of salt, Beats contract allows them the right to transfer ownership incase of a buyout which in turn gives Apple full rights.

Given the history of the people involved it's totally possible from the very start of negotiation for streaming rights that they put this little nugget in and the parties involved had no foresight for such a buy out.
 
my 2 cents

1) I don't care one way or another about the acquisition of the company / talent. I'm sure there is value there. BUT I am concerned at the amount they spent. there are an aweful lot of great acquisitions Apple could make for $3bln.

2) I'm glad they announced it now instead of spending time on it during WWDC. If there are already relevant plans that concern developers then great, that is all that needs to be at WWDC.

Name some of these great opportunities apple has overlooked. To be fair let's limit them to companies with a similar net earnings percentage. I mean Apple could Facebook Flappy Bird for two billion dollars and it would not be as dumb as Facebook facebooking whatsapp.

There are several reasons apple is sitting on a huge pile of cash. One of them is that there are not a lot of relevant billion dollar businesses for sale that make money.

Obviously Apple's massive growth over the last ten plus years has made a deal like this much easier to handle as it is fairly low risk.

One thing I think the detractors fail to recognize is Apple has run counter to the Silicon Valley spending spree ideal for pretty much ever. They have always carefully chosen when and where to invest their money. As the bank accounts swelled it just became more difficult to find opportunities of real value that will provide a tangible return. There are only so many massive pre-orders and investments in partners building out facilities to go around. They have gotten so large that it is a real challenge for them to find worthwhile investments. This certainly bears the hallmark of a carefully considered and financially sound apple-like investment and not at all like a Zuckerberg Hallucination or a Google Screw it we have lots of money so who cares investment.

I do not think people appreciate how hard it can be to find investments that offer a good return while carrying very little risk. When you have a huge sum of money, as a public company, you do have an obligation to try and maximize your return.

Apple has always been financially prudent and careful in investing their cash and this is, again, no exception. I think some people get thrown off a bit due to the actual amount being invested, as three billon dollars is a lot of money by any metric. That being said that does not mean this is not a relatively safe investment with low risk. Back to your proposition, it is not likely there are two, three or ten businesses just sitting out there waiting for Apple to buy them up.

Another misconception I think a lot of people have is that succesful businesses are just looking to be bought up. That is simply not the case. While the adage of everything having its price is absolutely correct, Apple has long demonstrated an unwillingness to overpay for businesses. Given what we know of Beats there is no reasonable economic measurement that would classify three billion dollars as overpaying. In fact it leans much more towards being a great price. So succesful companies making lots of money usually are not looking to sell. There are many reasons for this, but the biggest is you are likely giving up a lot of money in the long run. This is money most savy investors and well qualified business owners and buyers don't pay for. In Beats case they have had an amazing rate of growth. So much so that it is possible five years from now it would have been a huge mistake, financially to sell. However, you don't pay for potential. I can only speculate that personal relationships and a bigger picture is what brought this deal together. There is no evidence that Beats was trying to sell, in fact the exact opposite had just happened as the bought back the piece of the company HTC had purchased.

Since money making machine companies are rarely for sale and if they are they are going to want to be paid a premium, what businesses are out there for sale? One's that don't make money clog up most of the list. It is easy to rattle off the significant number of tech related businesses that have sold for over a billion dollars, in the last five to seven years, that were not profitable at all. Since I have gone on much too long I don't think I need to explain why businesses that only lose money would be much more open and available to companies wanting to buy other companies.

The Motorola deal was flat out bad for google. The Nest deal not as much, at least not now. It is certainly a much more risky expenditure of three billion dollars than Beats is for Apple, but it has some potential (we shouldn't be outlayjng billions on potential). Then you have the total cluster of Whatsapp. Whatsapp could cure world hunger, cure cancer and make people immortal and still be a horrible purchase.

The bottom line is finding companies that are actually worth billions of dollars and provide synergy with your business is beyond finding a needle in a haystack. The reality is there are not a bunch of succesful companies wanting a reasonable price that overlap with what Apple is trying to do.

Someone earlier asked if it was such a great deal why was Google and Microsoft all over it?

Google, Microsoft and Apple are in three different businesses. Advertising, Software and Hardware. They are really not similar at all. So their wants and needs are different. While I have said in the past that Beats makes sense purely as a financial investment, regardless of any other factors. That remains absolutely true. However it does not mean that is good guidance for companies making strategic acquisitions. It was the right fit for Apple. And to be fair there is no evidence that Beats was available to Microsoft or Google. Even at a higher price it might not have been available.

I appreciate and respect the fact that Apple has always exhibited restraint even when faced with the temptation to overpay for toys on the companies dime. They continue to maintain that restraint, including this deal. It is a very low risk investment with a couple wild cards that offer potential huge upside. If the day after the deal closed everything Beats disappeared off the face of the planet, leaving Apple with literally nothing, it would still be a better deal than Motorola or Whatsapp.
 
I have a few friends who've worked for Beats for a few years.

The common theme is that Iovine is an awful, awful boss. Apparently most employees are poorly/under paid with the reasoning from upper management being "you're lucky to work here." Two of my friends told similar stories of Iovine actually yelling at groups of employees (with more "adult" language included) things like this.

And now he's part of our family. Great.

Worst of all (for the sake of my friends), very few employees were ever offered compensation that included options or shares in the company. And now many longer-term employees will be laid off with zero compensation or severance package (seriously none). Because that's how Iovine does business.

Yikes.

So people pining for Steve Jobs should be quite happy with this.
 
???

I was hoping this was all a joke or a rumor gone out of control. It just makes no damn sense. At all.

I hope Iovine and Dre $#!+ gold because nothing anyone has come up with so far, including official press releases from either company washes. Not for $3B.
 
Apple's stock price jumped so much that the acquisition of Beats has already paid for itself several times over. :eek:

What does the finance world see...

- Profitable company
- Sells expensive headphones people are willing to buy in large quantities
- Streaming service
- Content creator connections
- Previous work history with the people involved
- A way to add value by getting people to use Apple related products on other platforms
- Apple can get far more favorable pricing on components than Beats alone. So there is a clear path for Apple to significantly improve upon the quality of the headphones.

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I was replying to the criticism of Jimmy Iovine, which for the most part, could have been the same criticism of Steve Jobs.

A few of my friends had similar things to say about SJ....even outside of work.
 
I think Apple will regret working with Iovine and Dre when all is said and done. It sounds like they have musical smarts but no class.

Most of us on this board would have the common sense not to insult a company's products in public shortly after said company inked a three billion dollar deal with us.

It sounds like Iovine is acting like having three billion dollars from Apple suddenly makes him the king of 1 Infinite Loop. Sooner or later, someone on the Executive Team will put Iovine in his place.

Lolwut

Are you under the impression that apple will continue to create non beats headphones? The statement was deliberate and undoubtedly one Apple Management was aware of and fine with. It is amusing you think this was a slip up or something Apple would be upset about. They are trying to get the publicity machine rolling. iPhones will come with a version of beats earbuds. Telling people that the quality of their product is going to improve is basic marketing.
 
I'm not really bothered about either company, I'm interested in innovation, I'm interested in new technologies. I don't buy many gadgets but I buy products from different companies that suit my needs.

I do prefer Apples business model to Google but I'm sure Apple aren't perfect either. I'm not keen on advertising and selling my data but Google provide me with a lot of great free services so it's a trade off. I Adblock it all anyway.

What search engine do you use?


You should educate yourself on google's core business. The one that generates all the money that allows them to spend money on all this stuff that doesn't make money. It is not nice. Google is a pretty crappy company to do business with. Just so you know, you are google's content they sell to others. And while they are very succesful they fun it with extremely poor ethics, consideration and just common decency. This is like the opposite of how apple treats its customers. If I were going to weirdly fetishize large companies as a hobby, I think I would favor the one that actually treated the customers well.

Almost nobody here is a customer of google and most people have no idea how google operates their core business. It is nothing anyone should be proud of. So while you may enjoy watching their little side projects, realize that almost all of google's income comes from selling online advertising. Having worked with them and spent very large sums of money with them and knowing many others as well, they do a crappy job. They also do a lot of things that are at best borderline ethical.

But yeah I could see apple buying a headphone company is comparable. If you really are intent on making google your new hobby it would not hurt to educate yourself on the part of the company that generates all the money to pay for all the money losing things you enjoy so much. Google is not held in high regard by a very large percentage of their customers.

Probably the best advice would be scrapping the public corporate love affair hobby altogether. It is a requisite that public companies earnestly pursue growth and profits.
 
Honestly I bet the majority of people who rip on Beats if given a blind test couldn't tell the difference in Beats vs some other headphone, not enough to say this one is garbage vs this one is good sounding.

Which just exemplifies the fact Beats produce mediocre headphones with a massive branding markup. For the same consumers who think Bose cubes are the thing to buy when you could get better quality for the same price or the same quality for less from many other manufacturers.

Beats use the same marketing as Monster. Fill the shelves in the retail stores and ensure that the only thing you can buy is the item with the biggest profit margin.
 
I get that you you think this deal makes good financial sense in the short term, I assume you're right about that. But do you think it's a exciting acquisition to push Apple products forward? Personally I think it tarnishes the Apple brand a bit.

Shocking.

(Not really to sensible people).

Very solid acquisition that pays for itself while providing apple potential huge upside benefits. Not to mention the synergy between one of the largest headphone makers and one of the largest headphone jack makers.

Financially the deal is a no brainer. Despite what some think, the headphone business makes good sense in relation to apple products. Getting the streaming service as well as iovine and Dre, well they were essentially free as the headphone business alone pretty much makes the price tag a great deal.

I have mentioned it before but the opportunity to buy highly succesful companies who make lots of money and also offer other significant opportunities are almost non existent. Apple hasn't made a deal like this because no deal this good existed. Some will ignorantly say apple should have paid way more to buy spotify, which loses money. That would have been a horrible idea and even a worse business move. Apple can reinvest the money beats earns into growing the streaming service and become legitimate competitors for a fraction of the price and infinity times more value.

I know some people's business education is entirely what they have seen happen in the technology sector in the past fifteen years but spending billions of dollars for companies who don't make money is not normal. So while Facebook can pat themselves on the back for flushing nineteen billion dollars down the toilet on whatsapp and google can gladly dance joyously that they spend three billion on a thermostat and faulty smoke detector, or even better lost billions on their Mototola deal, apple will have to console themselves with buying a company that is likely in a ~15 P/E ratio, that throws in two highly succesful music execs and a streaming service.
 
Carlyle

Carlyle makes out like a bandit here, turning 500 million into nearly 1.5 Billion in about nine months. Nice work if you can get it.

Me thinks there was a bit of insider dealing going on. Too many events happening in too short a time.
 
Outliers ≠ the norm.

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You understand not EVERYTHING is a question of money, yes?

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How many successful businessmen were phds? People too busy in school to create a real business around an idea.

Outliers applies to Phds as well.
 
How so? Because people are calling out a thug exactly what he is? Nothing to do with his skin color. He's a gangsta thug police hater and those are the facts.

He could be green for all I care....he's an angry rapper with an axe to grind and that's that. The race card players are out in full force though, I can see that.

20 years ago he voiced his complaints on record. So what. Quit denying and start accepting responsibility for the actions of our government and right the wrongs. Who hasnt complained aggressively on record before?

Accept that blacks were being abused by the federal government and many deaths of black people were the direct result of police brutality. When white artists complain no complaints from the peanut gallery. They get praise when the complain and go on record about killing the president or killing innocent children who happen to be minorities wearing a sweat coat in the rain. Black people will stop using their race card when white people stop using their race card.
 
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Lolwut

Are you under the impression that apple will continue to create non beats headphones? The statement was deliberate and undoubtedly one Apple Management was aware of and fine with. It is amusing you think this was a slip up or something Apple would be upset about. They are trying to get the publicity machine rolling. iPhones will come with a version of beats earbuds. Telling people that the quality of their product is going to improve is basic marketing.

Really? Have you seen Dre's celebratory video on YouTube? Do you think Apple management approved of that, too?

I think Iovine and Dre are both accustomed to Hollywood and they're going to have to get acclimated to the way the corporate world operates in Silicon Valley. I don't care who Iovine is in Hollywood -- bad mouthing his new employer's current products in public his first week on the job was not a smart move. It's incredibly bad form.

There were other ways to communicate the same thing without saying, "they just use the earbuds to make sure the sound works on the phone." He could've said, "I'm confident that there will be some positive changes coming to the Apple earbuds." Both statements say the same thing (the earbuds need to be improved); but one statement is tactful and the other is not.

He can say whatever he wants behind closed doors at Apple; but if last night's spectacle was indicative of how Iovine plans to represent Apple in public, the executive team had better keep a short leash on him for the time being when it comes to public appearances.
 
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Currently about $10M a quarter.

Do you honestly think this was a bad investment? My point was that ANY profit is a bonus to this deal which is mainly about getting Iovine and Dre on board.

I guess time will tell if this is a good investment.

But your point is taken.
 
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