Apple Announces Ads Are Coming to Apple Maps

[xmlninja]

Yep, at that point users might as well migrate to Microsoft to at least have control over the hardware in their computer. I use Debian on my other box, sort of nice having some control over the hardware.

That's great, if you prefer 45min battery on your laptop.

 

[The_Gream]

People are complaining about ads in Apple Maps.
I just saw an article about how some newly purchased Vizio TVs are requiring a Walmart account for full functionality.

Yes, more ads is annoying, but I find this move by Walmart to be way more intrusive.

 

[surferfb]

That's fine. Apple and plenty of us can accept you thinking the device is less nice.


Agree to disagree. Saying Apple makes a lot of profit doesn't mean complaints against Apple not being charitable enough to their users makes sense.



Except you don't know where they're going with Apple Maps. Like I said, you're in the minority that thinks Apple Maps is in a great place. I and very likely Apple disagrees. If we want Apple to be at least on par with Google Maps (to put the user experience of using Maps first essentially), more investments need to be made.




Apple Health is paid for in large part by Apple Watch and doesn't require nearly as much investment as Apple Maps.

Same as above


iMessage is paid for in large part by iCloud storage pricing.

Do you have thousands of people driving around cars or wearing specially equipped lidar sensors to map out the entire world every year, have 2 entire teams working on Maps software, with hundreds on staff adjusting the map data for thousands of map error reports a day? Nope. You have maybe dozens of engineers working on iMessage at most.




1. Ads solve an issue developers are asking for (they want their app exposure on top) which may be relevant based on what the user is searching for (which could be a good thing for users).
2. Again $99 hardly pays for app reviews to break even.
3. It's very easy to argue that App Store 15/30% can pay for a lot of things. Why not give us Apple Arcade for free for example? Or make Final Cut / Logic free on iPad/Mac. It's only a few dozen engineers that work on these apps so 15/30% *easily* covers that.

Just because a company can make $10 billion in profit doesn't mean the company should set aside $2-4 billion of that $10 billion for free things for the users because the user thinks the company is making too much money. They're already reinvesting where it makes sense.

I mean, ultimately we’re just going to have to agree to disagree here. You’re arguing Apple can’t afford to subsidize a great Maps app even though they make over a hundred billion dollars in profit a year. I, along with most posters here, think that’s laughable. You also clam Apple is going to reinvest that money into Maps. I’d like a source for that, because it certainly doesn’t appear the App Store ads money is being reinvested in the App Store.

We think that a quality maps app is vital for the platform so Apple should be happy to subsidize it with profits (the way they do with other vital parts of iOS, despite your claim without evidence that “iCloud pays for it”), even if costs a lot, particularly when the alternative is making the user experience worse and runs contrary to Apple’s almost 20-year value proposition and differentiation arguments against Google. You seem to think that’s too much to ask and we should be thankful that Apple is making our experience worse because of some belief that Apple is going to reinvest the ad money to make maps better despite the examples of News, Stocks, and the App Store.

If we come back in two or three or five years and Apple Maps is significantly better than it is today I’ll come on here and say I was wrong. But I strongly suspect the only significant difference will be there are ads in Maps; all the existing complaints will still ring true.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

This is bad and Apple should feel bad.

As always Apple collected their personal data about us and now uses it just like Google. Do wonder how thisexwho thought Apple was fine tracking them because it wasn’t used for injecting adds everywhere

 

[SpotOnT]

Is unbridled capitalism at work. ‘Murica, **** yeah!

Pretty sure most those governments are in the EU…so….ya….

 

[UliBaer]

I mean, ultimately we’re just going to have to agree to disagree here. You’re arguing Apple can’t afford to subsidize a great Maps app even though they make over a hundred billion dollars in profit a year. I, along with most posters here, think that’s laughable. You also clam Apple is going to reinvest that money into Maps. I’d like a source for that, because it certainly doesn’t appear the App Store ads money is being reinvested in the App Store.

We think that a quality maps app is vital for the platform so Apple should be happy to subsidize it with profits (the way they do with other vital parts of iOS, despite your claim without evidence that “iCloud pays for it”), even if costs a lot, particularly when the alternative is making the user experience worse and runs contrary to Apple’s almost 20-year value proposition and differentiation arguments against Google. You seem to think that’s too much to ask and we should be thankful that Apple is making our experience worse because of some belief that Apple is going to reinvest the ad money to make maps better despite the examples of News, Stocks, and the App Store.

If we come back in two or three or five years and Apple Maps is significantly better than it is today I’ll come on here and say I was wrong. But I strongly suspect the only significant difference will be there are ads in Maps; all the existing complaints will still ring true.

We seldom agree, but ^this^ is spot on! 👍

 

[SpotOnT]

Yes. They will pay for Apple Maps by including ads into Apple Maps.

Can you please provide a reference showing that the money made from ads in Apple Maps will be reinvested in Apple Maps?

I remember when politicians claimed that Brexit would allow the UK to invest £350m per week into the NHS. As blatant of a lie as that was, at least I could forgive people for “trusting” their leaders. In this case, though, I don’t even see anyone making the claim that ads in Apple Maps COULD lead to an increased investment in Apple Maps.

 

[VulchR]

For all those people that were cheering about governments acting to lower the commission rate on apps for the Apple ecosystem, you won. It should come as no surprise that ads are what you get instead. 🤷

Some of us argued that Apple should have to earn the commission by guaranteeing the quality, security, and value for money of apps made available in the App Store. Alas, that hasn't happened either.

 

[steviewondercansee]

I mean, ultimately we’re just going to have to agree to disagree here. You’re arguing Apple can’t afford to subsidize a great Maps app

Nope. You're literally twisting my words.

 

[bondr006]

This is bad and Apple should feel bad.

And Tim Apple the bean counter should feel ashamed. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave, while the rest of us old Apple devotees just hang our heads and weep.

 

[steviewondercansee]

Can you please provide a reference showing that the money made from ads in Apple Maps will be reinvested in Apple Maps?

This is called the fallacy of impossible expectations

1) They haven't started rolling ads out
2) You're asking for business plans on how Apple will exactly spend on R&D which is a trade secret that no one but Apple executives have.
3) It's a common core concept in MBA programs to implement the flywheel effect. It doesn't make sense to degrade the UX (expecting zero loss of users) by adding ads and then sit back to take in 100% of added profit without adding future value to that service. I don't recall Apple ever doing this.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I never thought I’d see people defending ads.

I hate ads with a passion and want no part of them all over anything I interact with.

 

[brt356]

Sad day for the Apple Maps users. Apple finally fixed their app so that it stopped navigating users deep into the Australian outback or directing them over a cliff. Now they will get this user and probably many more switching to other Waze to navigate…How much more capital does a $4 trillion company need to operate and do right by their customers?

 

[cynegils]

I never thought I’d see people defending ads.

I hate ads with a passion and want no part of them all over anything I interact with.

What bothers me isn’t just ads, it’s the mindset that drives them. When everything gets reduced to monetization (and this long predates Tim Cook), things like quality, satisfaction, and integrity start to feel secondary. And lord knows the world in sprinting in that direction.

In most companies that I know of, internal teams compete for budget based on company revenues. Maybe Apple is an exception, but I doubt it. The idea that Apple Maps can't improve, despite the company making $112 billion in net profit in 2025, simply because Maps itself isn’t a direct revenue driver sounds ridiculous.

 

[B4U]

Here is an idea, vote with our money and rate all those places that has a paid ad with crap reviews.
With no one paying to place an ad, then there cannot be sponsored ads, right?

 

[BSDnostalgia]

I never thought I’d see people defending ads.

I hate ads with a passion and want no part of them all over anything I interact with.

What bothers me isn’t just ads, it’s the mindset that drives them. When everything gets reduced to monetization (and this long predates Tim Cook), things like quality, satisfaction, and integrity start to feel secondary. And lord knows the world in sprinting in that direction.

I've noticed ads creeping in to ad-free places just because -- it is almost like people think that there should always be some kind of ad even when there is literally no reason. Case in point -- the PBS streaming service now requires a subscription. So, I am a "member" -- several times over, actually, although you don't get extra credit for that. But, when you watch a show, they have to insert some kind of ad, for Viking cruises, or, several other similar sponsors. So, even though you paid for the subscription, and, you've already seen the ad on TV and on the streaming channel, you still have to watch an ad -for something- every time. Why?

I see this Apple Maps thing as being similar -- people (I suspect they are all MBAs) seem to want to prevent people from having an ad-free life, even if the people are willing to pay extra for an ad-free life. People "accepted" ads on free services because they were free. But, now we have to have ads on paid services as well. Why?

 

[Chazak]

Because if you annoy your customers enough they’ll walk away and you’ll lose a hell of a lot more money in the long run than you’ll make injecting ads everywhere. (see Microslop and Windows 11)

Where are these annoyed customers walking to? What evidence is there to back up what you about “losing a lot more money in the long run”?

 

[SpotOnT]

This is called the fallacy of impossible expectations

1) They haven't started rolling ads out
2) You're asking for business plans on how Apple will exactly spend on R&D which is a trade secret that no one but Apple executives have.
3) It's a common core concept in MBA programs to implement the flywheel effect. It doesn't make sense to degrade the UX (expecting zero loss of users) by adding ads and then sit back to take in 100% of added profit without adding future value to that service. I don't recall Apple ever doing this.

I agree with your 1 and 2.

And that is why you probably shouldn’t be claiming that Apple plans on using revenue from ads to improve Apple Maps?

 

[840quadra]

I didn't give any hard figures for cost, so not sure why you're asking for source. Do I have a source that it costs money to develop this service? Yes. See Apple jobs listings.

You made the the previous claim that I quoted in my reply to you.

Cost to build/maintain Keynote/numbers/garageband/pages/iMovie is not *nearly* the same as Apple Maps. Apple Maps, they literally have hundreds (maybe thousands) of engineers/people in cars driving around the world/people wearing lidar backpacks walking around the city/maintainers correcting erroneous data/ actively updating the entire world of data every single day. Not to mention servers serving billions of requests every day.

I asked you for a source to that claim from which you are further deflecting in the below comment.

I never gave hard figures for cost, no. You thought wrong apparently.

I am not in error here, I have again pointed out your error in unsubstantiated claims and you have doubled deflecting regarding what you posted (in plain English) in this thread.

With those two examples, I see no point in addressing any of your other comments because there is no telling how you may or may not spin your replies.

Responding now as a Forum user only, If you cannot follow the basics of proper debate, I suggest we stop, and agree that we disagree.

 

[840quadra]

Do they still tie in all the POI info and reviews from Yelp, for some inexplicable reason?

Yelp is my biggest gripe about Apple Maps.

I have zero interest with logging into a 3rd party to read detailed reviews and all photos. I also have zero interest in logging into Yelp to provide a review.

Google Maps has a (IMHO) far superior review system built into their application, from which I have left hundreds of reviews and photos without needing to leave the application.

 

[steviewondercansee]

I agree with your 1 and 2.

And that is why you probably shouldn’t be claiming that Apple plans on using revenue from ads to improve Apple Maps?

That's addressed in point 3.

 

[steviewondercansee]

You made the the previous claim that I quoted in my reply to you.

Cost to build/maintain Keynote/numbers/garageband/pages/iMovie is not *nearly* the same as Apple Maps.

That's not hard figures. That's relative figures.

I asked you for a source to that claim from which you are further deflecting in the below comment.

I am not in error here, I have again pointed out your error in unsubstantiated claims

Except I literally answered your question "See Apple jobs listings." That is one source. The fact that they have a Maps team and a separate MapKit team to support Maps suggests it costs far more than maintaining a single app (along with what I said below). I would know because I applied for both teams and got an on campus interview with both. Stop accusing me of deflecting when I literally answered your question.

and you have doubled deflecting regarding what you posted (in plain English) in this thread.

Nope.
Also, checking their schedule for image collection alone suggests more employees are needed than Garageband https://maps.apple.com/imagecollection/locations/ (check all the countries that have overlapping schedules) and dedicated team needed to support user submissions of erroneous data. Then they have a backend service to serve billions of requests per day (the fact that high volume third party apps can use this for free like Facebook/Yelp) while Keynote/Numbers/Garageband/Pages/iMovie don't even have a backend service at this scale suggests there's a lot more $$$ involved in maintaining Maps.

You are absolutely in error here. I've provided more than one source and answered your question. Now please address my other points in response to your other statements.

 

[avro707]

Sad day for the Apple Maps users. Apple finally fixed their app so that it stopped navigating users deep into the Australian outback or directing them over a cliff. Now they will get this user and probably many more switching to other Waze to navigate…How much more capital does a $4 trillion company need to operate and do right by their customers?

I’ve been using Waze for a long time already.

In my area it works well.

To get around that Apple could integrate full screen adverts on CarPlay menu or play audio adverts through the car speakers! 😉 if I suggest it they might actually do it, that’s the scary thing.

 

[JoeSilver]

Yes, Apple should offer its services for free. How dare they charge their users!

The amount of thumbs down for this comment is amusing 🙂 Let me break it down to you, how it looks like as seen from outside the Apple cult: for decades Apple users have been willing to pay a premium for the privilege of being part of the "premium" users. Apple has succeeded so much in convincing that owning Apple products means belonging to the chosen people, that sometimes the reality hits really hard. 99% of the times, for the same price of an Apple device, it's possible to find another product with (sometimes much) better specs. This has been true as far as I can remember.

Regarding Apple Maps: like its counterpart by Google, it relies on the free contribution of users like me, like us, who update, correct and add places. Without us, they would be pretty useless.

 

[840quadra]

That's not hard figures. That's relative figures.


Except I literally answered your question "See Apple jobs listings." That is one source. The fact that they have a Maps team and a separate MapKit team to support Maps suggests it costs far more than maintaining a single app (along with what I said below). I would know because I applied for both teams and got an on campus interview with both. Stop accusing me of deflecting when I literally answered your question.



Nope.
Also, checking their schedule for image collection alone suggests more employees are needed than Garageband https://maps.apple.com/imagecollection/locations/ (check all the countries that have overlapping schedules) and dedicated team needed to support user submissions of erroneous data. Then they have a backend service to serve billions of requests per day (the fact that high volume third party apps can use this for free like Facebook/Yelp) while Keynote/Numbers/Garageband/Pages/iMovie don't even have a backend service at this scale suggests there's a lot more $$$ involved in maintaining Maps.

You are absolutely in error here. I've provided more than one source and answered your question. Now please address my other points in response to your other statements.

I asked you to provide proof of your claim that supporting the former ilife suite is less expensive than them supporting maps.

You haven't provided anything but assumptions, job postings, and your suggestions as some kind of "evidence" to back your claim.

I never said the iLife suite cost more to maintain than Maps, You made claims of costs to support / maintain maps being higher, I pointed out that they used to charge for ilife software packages, now they don't. For whatever reason you created this tangent and still can't substantiate anything outside of assumptions or conjecture.

I am not in error here.

::Edited third paragraph for better clarification::