Apple Announces Ads Are Coming to Apple Maps

[steviewondercansee]

I asked you to provide proof of your claim that supporting the former ilife suite is less expensive than them supporting maps.

Suite? No. I used slashes to denote OR. My quote was: "Cost to build/maintain Keynote/numbers/garageband/pages/iMovie is not *nearly* the same as Apple Maps.". I even singled out Garageband as one app as potentially paid for by Logic sales. And from Apple presentations, we know the Final Cut team handled iMovie app which can be supported from Final Cut software sales. So why would I argue Garageband + iMovie and others as one suite to compete against costs of Maps? That's where you went wrong. You seemed to be under the impression I meant cumulatively all the software listed.

My source for *relative* costs of Maps being more than any single iLife app I mentioned (the argument I made) is job listings proving there are at least 2 teams supporting Maps vs 1 team supporting any one of those single apps.

Other sources include Maps schedule of a third team (a large one) of Maps dedicated to collecting data (via driving and backpack lidar). And another source is the simple fact that Maps have a backend serving orders magnitude more users than any of those other iLife apps (including iCloud.com ilife apps) considering third party apps like Facebook/Yelp that have potentially several hundred million users accessing Apple maps data daily.

Those are my sources. They are hard facts you can't possibly deny. I literally answered your question.

You haven't provided anything but assumptions, job postings, and your suggestions as some kind of "evidence" to back your claim.

Job postings proving that there are more than 1 team working on Maps? That would literally be a source.

Sorry but I'm done here. It's clear you're not arguing in good faith. I provided you what you literally asked and you're ignoring it. You are absolutely in error here. Have a good one.

 

[surferfb]

(the fact that high volume third party apps can use this for free like Facebook/Yelp) while Keynote/Numbers/Garageband/Pages/iMovie don't even have a backend service at this scale suggests there's a lot more $$$ involved in maintaining Maps.

Maybe Apple should start charging developers for API calls like Google does then. That makes a lot more sense than going against almost twenty years of brand promise and making the end-user’s experience worse if we’re accepting the bizzaro-world argument that even though it’s a vital feature of its most important product Apple shouldn’t use a tiny percentage their over $100B a year of profit to maintain Maps.

 

[steviewondercansee]

Maybe Apple should start charging developers for API calls like Google does then.

1) The point is that it costs more to run Maps than an iLife app.
2) They do charge developers for API on the web.
3) That's their business decision. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. There are many different business strategies to be for or against charging developers for iOS Maps usage.

 

[apple4everOG]

There are ads in app store. How is it different than that?

They shouldn't be there either. I am paying for a premium product and I expect a premium experience.

 

[Edd70]

If they’re going to whore out the app I’m not bothered but they may as well make it fun with celebrity voice options or something. I’d enjoy having Denis Leary yell at me if I miss a turn.

 

[Ct applefan]

If Apple Maps is going to have ads, I may as well switch back to Google Maps.

I’ve never used Apple Maps. Guess I never will. Waze for the win.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

There are no privacy violations since no personal information tied to you went back to Carls Jr.

Here it how it works:

• Carl Jr provides and ad for Apple
• Carl jr asks Apple to show the ad to males over 30 years of age in California
• Apple, who mostly know who you are, shows this ad to people fitting the requirements
• Apple reports back to Carl Jr how many times the ad was shown and other statistics

No information about you went from Apple to Carl Jr, thus no privacy issue.

Oh you would be suprised how little information you need of someone to extract who they are. Sometimes data just shouldn’t be shared

Debunking the Myth of “Anonymous” Data

Today, almost everything about our lives is digitally recorded and stored somewhere. Each credit card purchase, personal medical diagnosis, and preference about music and books is recorded and then used to predict what we like and dislike, and—ultimately—who we are. This often happens without our...

www.eff.org

 

[ThomasJL]

My goodness, does Tim Cook’s greed have any limits?

Ads add clutter. Ads also add lag on older iPhones that are still supported with the latest version of iOS.

And to think, people were criticizing Scott Forstall for Apple Maps. Yeah, Apple Maps had problems when it first launched in 2012. But Forstall was a perfectionist and cared deeply about user-friendliness, so had Cook not recklessly fired Forstall in 2012, Apple Maps would’ve likely been much better today.

Ads in Apple Maps would’ve never happened if Forstall was made CEO instead of Cook.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Maybe Apple should start charging developers for API calls like Google does then. That makes a lot more sense than going against almost twenty years of brand promise and making the end-user’s experience worse if we’re accepting the bizzaro-world argument that even though it’s a vital feature of its most important product Apple shouldn’t use a tiny percentage their over $100B a year of profit to maintain Maps.

Makes me a bit sad really. As Apple Is slowly introducing adds and monetizing schemes and effectively googlifying everything but still maintaining the premium price tag and brand presentation.

So the familiar take of speak with your money will even more be a singular market of ********ation

 

[Tivoli_]

Yes, Apple should offer its services for free. How dare they charge their users!

We pay for services already. iTunes Match, iCloud services, overly priced phones, Apple TV, etc.!
Like Amazon Prime when video used to be ad-free and now you have to pay extra. I do hate watching amazon videos because of it. Apple is purely trying to have a new source of revenue because innovation is dead. All what we get nowadays are more bells and whistles on their software.
It's time to find other mapping softwares.

 

[JoeSilver]

We pay for services already.

Yes, and they do not explicitly include Maps which, as someone else observed, is not a cheap service to maintain and develop.

Regarding innovation: do you want innovation for the sake of innovation? Is there anything that would actually improve your quality of life or you'd just jump on any innovative gadget they might come up with?

It's time to find other mapping softwares.

There's Osmand. Do not expect to have premium features for free, though.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Yes, and they do not explicitly include Maps which, as someone else observed, is not a cheap service to maintain and develop.

Regarding innovation: do you want innovation for the sake of innovation? Is there anything that would actually improve your quality of life or you'd just jump on any innovative gadget they might come up with?


There's Osmand. Do not expect to have premium features for free, though.

They do, it’s included with the purchase of the device. Zero things that is included with iOS is cheap in any shape or form.

They could actually innovate in the AppStore market considering how subpar it is for the users experience. Providing a superior experience without ads is an area of inovation etc

 

[-BigMac-]

Yes, Apple should offer its services for free. How dare they charge their users!

Apple users pay for services through service subscriptions like iCloud services and iCloud storage, Apple One, Apple Music etc.

They pay for the hardware with premium hardware prices.

What exactly are Apple users not paying for? Enlighten us

Edit: while I was typing the above comment about subscriptions.. this notification “miraculously” appeared:

And you think Apple doesnt monetize our data for profit? You think you’re not being tracked and listened to ALL the time?

They make more than enough money from us..

 

[JoeSilver]

What exactly are Apple users not paying for? Enlighten us

They are not paying for Apple maps, which is not explicitly included in any of the services you mentioned. Regarding the premium prices, if you ask anybody outside the Apple userbase, they don't think that the premium prices are justified, except for the privilege of having a device that feels premium because it's more expensive than similar devices with comparable features.

In any case, I'd rather have ads on Maps than paying a subscription, especially if it allows them to improve it.

And you think Apple doesnt monetize our data for profit?

I'm not sure what's your point here. My point was that every service has a cost and must be financed in a way or another.

In any case, that's an ad from your Uber app, not from Apple.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They are not paying for Apple maps, which is not explicitly included in any of the services you mentioned. Regarding the premium prices, if you ask anybody outside the Apple userbase, they don't think that the premium prices are justified, except for the privilege of having a device that feels premium because it's more expensive than similar devices with comparable features.

In any case, I'd rather have ads on Maps than paying a subscription, especially if it allows them to improve it.


I'm not sure what's your point here. My point was that every service has a cost and must be financed in a way or another.

In any case, that's an ad from your Uber app, not from Apple.

So what do you think pays for iMessage and everything else not included in a payed subscription if not by the price of the product?

 

[JoeSilver]

Someone in this thread explained what sets Apple Maps apart from other apps which are part of the operating systems developed by Apple, in terms of resources needed and constant updates and infrastructure. Arguably, iMessage doesn't need all that.

 

[-BigMac-]

They are not paying for Apple maps, which is not explicitly included in any of the services you mentioned. Regarding the premium prices, if you ask anybody outside the Apple userbase, they don't think that the premium prices are justified, except for the privilege of having a device that feels premium because it's more expensive than similar devices with comparable features.

In any case, I'd rather have ads on Maps than paying a subscription, especially if it allows them to improve it.


I'm not sure what's your point here. My point was that every service has a cost and must be financed in a way or another.

In any case, that's an ad from your Uber app, not from Apple.

So you believe Apple cannot allocate and funnel funds from their collective revenue into departments and services which dont raise direct revenue?

You think Apple has some internal policy against making their less profitable services stay afloat? That makes absolutely no sense.

On the other topic -
If you think everything around you just happens by accident - like mentioning a Mars bar, and then conveniently a Mars bar ad appears in your feed - then you aren’t paying enough attention.

Do you think Apple doesnt know that their mics are being utilized by these companies endlessly? Do you think Apple allows it out of the goodness of their heart, or are they getting paid for the constant breach of Privacy? - aka theres another source of revenue to fund your Maps app

 

[Skwoodge]

Hopefully my AdGuard will keep blocking in app ads like this. I love Apple Maps, but this will just push me to Google Maps. I'm already paying for Apple everything with 2 TB of iCloud storage. Maybe ad free Maps will be a part of this. I hate seeing Apple go in this direction.

 

[Abazigal]

I mentioned a while ago that Apple has pivoted from simply selling iPhones, to selling to people with iPhones ( and other Apple devices).

As devices last longer, and as Apple appears willing to support them for longer, it bears remembering that every decision is in itself a trade off. Apple may be fine supporting your iPhone for 6-7 years or Mac for 8-10 years, but they will also want to make up for the slower upgrade cycle through other channels.

Every policy decision has its price.

 

[JoeSilver]

So you believe Apple cannot allocate and funnel funds from their collective revenue into departments and services which dont raise direct revenue?

You think Apple has some internal policy against making their less profitable services stay afloat? That makes absolutely no sense.

Certainly they can, the question is why they should. While it makes sense for a government to subsidise arts and services and critical sectors of the economy, to a certain extent, for a private company I don't necessarily see a compelling reason to do so. In any case, their primary objective is to maximise profits, I don't why so many of you forget or neglect this crucial fact. When, if, their commercial strategies will negatively impact revenues, they will change course.

On the other topic -
If you think everything around you just happens by accident - like mentioning a Mars bar, and then conveniently a Mars bar ad appears in your feed - then you aren’t paying enough attention.

Do you think Apple doesnt know that their mics are being utilized by these companies endlessly? Do you think Apple allows it out of the goodness of their heart, or are they getting paid for the constant breach of Privacy? - aka theres another source of revenue to fund your Maps app

Honestly, here I think you are mixing a few things up. If you think that your mic and camera are being tapped and your privacy breached, then you should stop using your phone immediately. Targeted ads do not require that users' private conversations or media be breached. They do not work that way. Again, if you have founded reasons to think so, then your privacy has been already widely compromised and Apple Maps, which arguably you will not use in the future, is the least of your concerns.

I don't like to be cannon fodder for data profiling either, that's why I quit all social media. I'd rather prefer than every website, including this, were free of any advertising (which of course is as targeted as it can be, based on the typical users and the cookies stored on their browsers), and the same for Maps. But nothing is free, and if Apple at any point explicitly said that Maps is included in the price of iPhones or Macs, well... they have changed their mind.

 

[BSDnostalgia]

In any case, their primary objective is to maximise profits, I don't why so many of you forget or neglect this crucial fact.

If a company dilutes the value of their product by polluting their user environment in various ways, it may actually not maximize profits in the longer term. Something like this is bean-counter-driven. They see short-term profits only, and forget that they are hurting long-term profits. I've seen too many companies go downhill when they allowed themselves to nickel-and-dime their customer base.

In this case, Apple should be asking itself why users use Apple Maps anyway, and, whether or not those users will find this policy change irritating. The same thing it should be asking itself about the whole "creative suite" issue, and, how much goodwill they will be losing by looking exactly like Adobe.

So, sure, profits. Just don't look to bean-counters to understand the difference between this quarters profits, and, profits.

 

[JoeSilver]

I wonder how long this "short-term profits" argument has been used. Many people here seem to think that things started going downwards since the disappearance of the prophet Steve Jobs. That makes nearly a third of Apple's history.

Anyway, we can discuss forever...

 

[-BigMac-]

Certainly they can, the question is why they should. While it makes sense for a government to subsidise arts and services and critical sectors of the economy, to a certain extent, for a private company I don't necessarily see a compelling reason to do so. In any case, their primary objective is to maximise profits, I don't why so many of you forget or neglect this crucial fact. When, if, their commercial strategies will negatively impact revenues, they will change course.

Honestly, here I think you are mixing a few things up. If you think that your mic and camera are being tapped and your privacy breached, then you should stop using your phone immediately. Targeted ads do not require that users' private conversations or media be breached. They do not work that way. Again, if you have founded reasons to think so, then your privacy has been already widely compromised and Apple Maps, which arguably you will not use in the future, is the least of your concerns.

I don't like to be cannon fodder for data profiling either, that's why I quit all social media. I'd rather prefer than every website, including this, were free of any advertising (which of course is as targeted as it can be, based on the typical users and the cookies stored on their browsers), and the same for Maps. But nothing is free, and if Apple at any point explicitly said that Maps is included in the price of iPhones or Macs, well... they have changed their mind.

Of course every businesses goal is to maximise profits - that doesnt mean they have to follow in the lead of Google and target ads, and collect data every single chance they get. There is a fine line between profiting off users, and breaching their trust.

Apple has a moral and ethical high ground image to maintain. They also market themselves as premium and high-end. Introducing ads everywhere is strongly against all of those values.

To say that if you think you are being tracked or listened to by your phone when not meant to be (this has been widely speculated for years now) - that you should immediately stop using your phone - is just absolute nonsense.

The phone is an integral part of living in a modern environment. It is the main method of communication with anyone outside of your immediate vicinity. To completely rid of the phone you are accepting you will have a significant hurdle in socialising, staying in contact with friends and family, and even being able to communicate with work or manager if need be.

One can’t just get rid of it - it’s here to stay. Where we should be focusing on as users is what we deem an acceptable Breach of privacy as a trade off to that connection to the world. Where the line in the sand is drawn. Being spammed with ads while I am trying to get directions to a funeral for example - is NOT one of those times when I need to find out about “the new Nike runners”

 

[GDF]

Apple really getting greedy now. Never thought Apple would stoop this low. So much greed in corporate America. Sad.

 

[surferfb]

To say that if you think you are being tracked or listened to by your phone when not meant to be (this has been widely speculated for years now) - that you should immediately stop using your phone - is just absolute nonsense.

I agree with almost everything you wrote, but just wanted to flag that your phone is absolutely not listening to you. It’s technically infeasible at scale and would be breaking wiretapping laws all over the world that would lead to the end of Apple/Google as companies. We’re talking corporate-extinction-level litigation and personal criminal exposure for executives. There is no universe where they are entertaining that.

There have been multiple studies by security researchers, journalists, even government agencies. Some of them even found sketchy stuff the companies were doing! But not one found any evidence that the phones were listening to conversations. Nobody has ever produced a reproducible experiment showing that phones secretly record speech for ads. No whistleblowers have come forward to allege it either.

And that’s before we get to the fact that it’s technically infeasible at scale. We’re talking about continuous speech-to-text transcription plus semantic understanding to distinguish, just using your example, “Mars bar” from: “Mars the planet”, “Mars, the Roman god of war”, “Mars rover”,“barre”, “going to a bar”, “bar exam”, “behind bars” etc. etc. etc. times literally every sentence you and those around you speak, running 24/7 on billions of devices in dozens, if not hundreds, of languages around the world. That’s an insane amount of compute and storage, with processor use and battery drain (if on device) and network traffic and data center build out (if off device) that security researchers and governments would have caught years ago and at a cost that couldn’t be hidden.

The fact if the matter is companies don’t NEED to listen to you. They get enough of your data already - even if you’re not freely giving it those around you are. Which is a serious issue. But at least it’s not listening to you!