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Apple Announces New iMacs, Mac Minis, AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule

Just to add to what Beerfloat is saying, I'm a Unix systems administrator. I've spent the last ten years buried in Linux/Solaris for the most part at home on my Laptop and other varied servers I use to run my home network and at work, I do most of my work on HP-UX/Solaris.

I just got tired of the "reading and fiddling", I do it day in and day out and probably will for the better part of my career. For my new laptop, I decided I wanted Unix without the trouble. OS X fit that bill perfectly. OS X on a Mac was a no brainer. No scouring the net for obscure drivers, no reading through endless HCLs, no trying to replace onboard hardware with compatible USB/PC card hardware.

Sure Linux has come a long way, and I'm sure the Hackintosh is no where near what Linux was 10 years ago (where I would recompile the kernel monthly, trim it down to my needs, all on a Slackware system with virtually no package management to speak of), but it's still not just a simple set it and forget it.
 
KnightWRX said:
If you try and build something with the Mini's form factor and power draw, the Mini is going to be the very competitive.

Your choice will either be the a SFF PC like the Dell Studio Hybrid or something based on the Intel Atom which will be grossly underpowered (or how's Via platform doing ? Nano ATX and mini ATX ?).
Click to expand...

I think you're right.
The Dell Studio hybrid is similar and has a similar price. Its price starts from £329 but it's easy to end up with a £499 machine if you prefer not to have a Celeron and really want to have more than 1GB RAM.

There is an Advent machine with a Core2 T5250 the DSG group is selling from £349;
Lenovo does not carry compact desktops;
HP and Packard Bell sell 5kg Mini-ATX boxes and/or Atom powered desktops;
... and I can't think of anyone else selling compact PCs.

Next time I'm on the market, my current Compaq midi-tower will end up in the "back-office" and I'll get something small and silent to go in the TV/computer room, if £500 is the price for that I don't know.
 
KnightWRX said:
Because that's not the Mini's market. Apple has decided that the AppleTV is their "almost an HTPC" solution. As such, the Mini is designed as a computer, for the sff market. HDMI, being mostly a television interconnect, is thus not used in favor of computer standards like DVI, Displayport and VGA.
Click to expand...

Apple TV is not HTPC, it is a media center. Mac mini is also not a pure HTPC, it is a cheap mobile desktop computer that can be used as an HTPC if you want to. DVI is the proper main interconnection for mini, but HDMI as a second video port would not be a bad idea.
 
Beerfloat said:
or your Mac won't go to sleep when the lid closes, or it won't wake up, etc etc.
Click to expand...

I've had that problem with my "REAL" Macs. So have plenty of others. You act like Apple's hardware is perfect and it's FAR from it.

And then when it sorta works, you'll always be on guard for which update might mess things up next. It's time better spent learning Linux or BSD or Solaris, at least those people *want* you to use their OS.
Click to expand...

You've got a good point there. Apple doesn't want you to use their OS. They want you buy crap from their online stores. Usability is the furthest thing on their minds. What can we charge for next?

No, the hackintosh end user experience is not comparable to a real Mac, and when I see people claiming that a hackintosh is the 'best value', well that's just silly.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you've even used one. You just sound like another ignorant fanboy panning anything and everything that isn't sold by Apple. You keep saying "a REAL Mac" as if it's anything but off-the-shelf parts purchased by Apple and that is ALL it is, stuffed into the backs of monitors where it doesn't belong or in laptop cases where the lid won't quite shut right or the keyboard doesn't type the first letter of your sentence or in my case, my external USB keyboard keeps shutting off/freezing up within 5 minutes after waking up from sleep like clockwork. Yeah, Apple makes some FINE hardware. Give them 2x the value of that hardware and experience the exact SAME problems you would with the SAME hardware sold by Dell (and many Dell computer are at least assembled in the USA, not flipping Communist CHINA like ALL Macs are these days (I mean why pay hard working Americans a decent wage to live on when you can get slave labor in a country that doesn't respect human rights? Macs USED to be proudly made in the USA (my PowerMac Digital Audio was cica 2001), but Steve Jobs wanted competitiveness and MORE PROFITS to line his pockets with and so moved it all to China.

In the end, it's ALWAYS the OS that makes a computer a Mac, for better or for worse. Spreading LIES about how Apple hardware is somehow "magical" or a "real Mac" is pure BS and you know it. I'm getting sick of reading magical purple colored puffs of smoke stories from Apple fanatics about how anything Steve touches turns to gold (more like Chinese RED IMO) when all Apple really does is make every decision to make more money for its board of directors and shareholders. There's no ethics, no patriotism, no for the sake of national security, etc. EVERYTHING is for the Almighty god of America known by his blessed name, Mr. Greenback Dollar. No wonder this country has gone down the toilet in the past decade. The few remaining companies have packed up, moved overseas and said to hell with American and moral values (and one upon a time religious values) such as FAIRNESS and BALANCE and not cheating/ripping people off at the scales. I would say charging 2-3x as much for cheap Chinese Communist goods falls into that category and Apple is right at head of the line to have everything made there. Yeah, line up to line Steve's pockets. He doesn't have enough money so he raised the prices on Macs yet again, fast approaching the gouging days of old. At least in the days of old, the computers were made in the USA by hard working Americans, not Communist Slave labor. And yet even with that cheap slave labor, Apple doesn't want to COMPETE with the likes of Dell because they want even MORE money so they say you simply 'aren't allowed' to install your bought and paid for retail copy of OS X on the computer of your choice. Well who died and made Steve Jobs the director of "no-longer" free trade and the abolisher of the 4th Amendent?

The ONLY part of a modern Mac that is "Made In The USA" is the operating system itself and it's the only part I plan to buy in the future from Apple unless they change their ways.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I've had that problem with my "REAL" Macs. So have plenty of others. You act like Apple's hardware is perfect and it's FAR from it.



You've got a good point there. Apple doesn't want you to use their OS. They want you buy crap from their online stores. Usability is the furthest thing on their minds. What can we charge for next?



I don't believe you've even used one. You just sound like another ignorant fanboy panning anything and everything that isn't sold by Apple. You keep saying "a REAL Mac" as if it's anything but off-the-shelf parts purchased by Apple and that is ALL it is, stuffed into the backs of monitors where it doesn't belong or in laptop cases where the lid won't quite shut right or the keyboard doesn't type the first letter of your sentence or in my case, my external USB keyboard keeps shutting off/freezing up within 5 minutes after waking up from sleep like clockwork. Yeah, Apple makes some FINE hardware. Give them 2x the value of that hardware and experience the exact SAME problems you would with the SAME hardware sold by Dell (and many Dell computer are at least assembled in the USA, not flipping Communist CHINA like ALL Macs are these days (I mean why pay hard working Americans a decent wage to live on when you can get slave labor in a country that doesn't respect human rights? Macs USED to be proudly made in the USA (my PowerMac Digital Audio was cica 2001), but Steve Jobs wanted competitiveness and MORE PROFITS to line his pockets with and so moved it all to China.

In the end, it's ALWAYS the OS that makes a computer a Mac, for better or for worse. Spreading LIES about how Apple hardware is somehow "magical" or a "real Mac" is pure BS and you know it. I'm getting sick of reading magical purple colored puffs of smoke stories from Apple fanatics about how anything Steve touches turns to gold (more like Chinese RED IMO) when all Apple really does is make every decision to make more money for its board of directors and shareholders. There's no ethics, no patriotism, no for the sake of national security, etc. EVERYTHING is for the Almighty god of America known by his blessed name, Mr. Greenback Dollar. No wonder this country has gone down the toilet in the past decade. The few remaining companies have packed up, moved overseas and said to hell with American and moral values (and one upon a time religious values) such as FAIRNESS and BALANCE and not cheating/ripping people off at the scales. I would say charging 2-3x as much for cheap Chinese Communist goods falls into that category and Apple is right at head of the line to have everything made there. Yeah, line up to line Steve's pockets. He doesn't have enough money so he raised the prices on Macs yet again, fast approaching the gouging days of old. At least in the days of old, the computers were made in the USA by hard working Americans, not Communist Slave labor. And yet even with that cheap slave labor, Apple doesn't want to COMPETE with the likes of Dell because they want even MORE money so they say you simply 'aren't allowed' to install your bought and paid for retail copy of OS X on the computer of your choice. Well who died and made Steve Jobs the director of "no-longer" free trade and the abolisher of the 4th Amendent?

The ONLY part of a modern Mac that is "Made In The USA" is the operating system itself and it's the only part I plan to buy in the future from Apple unless they change their ways.
Click to expand...



emotional, heartfelt and right to the heart of the matter.

I could NOT agree more.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I don't believe you've even used one. You just sound like another ignorant fanboy panning anything and everything that isn't sold by Apple.
Click to expand...

Both of these suspicions of yours are baseless and pretty far from the truth, but I suppose that's alright because

Some good old-fashioned protectionist anti-Communist rambling (abridged)
Click to expand...

you seem to have some serious issues.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I've had that problem with my "REAL" Macs. So have plenty of others. You act like Apple's hardware is perfect and it's FAR from it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but then try to have any problems fixed under warranty with a Hackintosh.

You'll pretty much have to use the Windows restore given to you with the computer to bring it back to factory defaults to get a warranty claim approved and if that fixes your problem, you'll never get it fixed.

It's the same thing with Linux, you're pretty stuck on your own.
 
Beerfloat said:
Both of these suspicions of yours are baseless and pretty far from the truth, but I suppose that's alright because



you seem to have some serious issues.
Click to expand...


whilst I think the OP should respond and probably will, I don't think anything he posted was meant to be political, just stating fact. There is no justification for the high prices from a manufacturing point of view. Maybe Apple customers are paying too much into Mr Ives' salary pot....maybe the stock option bodge is costing more than they thought... who knows?
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I've had that problem with my "REAL" Macs. So have plenty of others. You act like Apple's hardware is perfect and it's FAR from it.



You've got a good point there. Apple doesn't want you to use their OS. They want you buy crap from their online stores. Usability is the furthest thing on their minds. What can we charge for next?



I don't believe you've even used one. You just sound like another ignorant fanboy panning anything and everything that isn't sold by Apple. You keep saying "a REAL Mac" as if it's anything but off-the-shelf parts purchased by Apple and that is ALL it is, stuffed into the backs of monitors where it doesn't belong or in laptop cases where the lid won't quite shut right or the keyboard doesn't type the first letter of your sentence or in my case, my external USB keyboard keeps shutting off/freezing up within 5 minutes after waking up from sleep like clockwork. Yeah, Apple makes some FINE hardware. Give them 2x the value of that hardware and experience the exact SAME problems you would with the SAME hardware sold by Dell (and many Dell computer are at least assembled in the USA, not flipping Communist CHINA like ALL Macs are these days (I mean why pay hard working Americans a decent wage to live on when you can get slave labor in a country that doesn't respect human rights? Macs USED to be proudly made in the USA (my PowerMac Digital Audio was cica 2001), but Steve Jobs wanted competitiveness and MORE PROFITS to line his pockets with and so moved it all to China.

In the end, it's ALWAYS the OS that makes a computer a Mac, for better or for worse. Spreading LIES about how Apple hardware is somehow "magical" or a "real Mac" is pure BS and you know it. I'm getting sick of reading magical purple colored puffs of smoke stories from Apple fanatics about how anything Steve touches turns to gold (more like Chinese RED IMO) when all Apple really does is make every decision to make more money for its board of directors and shareholders. There's no ethics, no patriotism, no for the sake of national security, etc. EVERYTHING is for the Almighty god of America known by his blessed name, Mr. Greenback Dollar. No wonder this country has gone down the toilet in the past decade. The few remaining companies have packed up, moved overseas and said to hell with American and moral values (and one upon a time religious values) such as FAIRNESS and BALANCE and not cheating/ripping people off at the scales. I would say charging 2-3x as much for cheap Chinese Communist goods falls into that category and Apple is right at head of the line to have everything made there. Yeah, line up to line Steve's pockets. He doesn't have enough money so he raised the prices on Macs yet again, fast approaching the gouging days of old. At least in the days of old, the computers were made in the USA by hard working Americans, not Communist Slave labor. And yet even with that cheap slave labor, Apple doesn't want to COMPETE with the likes of Dell because they want even MORE money so they say you simply 'aren't allowed' to install your bought and paid for retail copy of OS X on the computer of your choice. Well who died and made Steve Jobs the director of "no-longer" free trade and the abolisher of the 4th Amendent?

The ONLY part of a modern Mac that is "Made In The USA" is the operating system itself and it's the only part I plan to buy in the future from Apple unless they change their ways.
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it!
 
Personally I think that's a load of cobblers.

You've got some bizarre issues mate, and some twisted views of patriotism. Go ahead and buy what you will, but most of us think the products are damn fine.

With the exception of the criminal price rises of course!
 
AlexisV said:
Personally I think that's a load of cobblers.

You've got some bizarre issues mate, and some twisted views of patriotism. Go ahead and buy what you will, but most of us think the products are damn fine.

With the exception of the criminal price rises of course!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what's so bizarre or twisted about wanting to keep jobs in one's own country (especially during a major recession/depression) instead of shipping them overseas to pay slave labor rates just so the stock holders and big whigs can make money hand over foot at the cost of jobs in one's country. You could label that patriotism, but I don't see how it's twisted. This idea of "globalism" is flawed in many respects, but the biggest two are that when one country has a major flaw/problem, it can bring the rest of the world down with it like a domino effect and likewise, the world is FAR from "even" in any condition and so the idea of "free" trade is flawed because of those economic disparities and that's why things like NAFTA are flawed.

FAIR trade makes sense, but that might be "protectionist" measures like having tariffs, which seems to be a bad word these days to Capitalists because it means they can't ship jobs overseas and send the goods back at costs that undercuts remaining American companies and forces them out of business and/or to do the same. That leaves a country full of minimum wage and low-paying "service" jobs. Having a country full of McDonald's workers (save the elite few who design for and/or run those companies doing that outsourcing) doesn't benefit anyone in the long run and that runs to the heart of the global recession right now. Too many Americans had poor paying jobs and bad credit and were allowed to buy houses they COULD NOT AFFORD and that lead to the disaster at hand. Greed caused the problem on both ends from the jobs moving away that would lead to affordability to the creditors who wanted to get those 15%-25% raised mortgage rates after the teaser rates reset. There was a major flaw in the plan, though. They could not afford the 15-25% rates (they could barely afford the 3% rates) and frankly, you cannot get water from a stone unless your name is Moses.

The new lesson here is that RESPONSIBLE behavior is needed in business, not just outright GREED. So yes, I would rather buy a computer made or at least assembled in the U.S. as opposed to one made or assembled in China. China is such bad news for the U.S. in so many ways (from them owning and paying for our debt through bonds to the MASSIVE trade deficit we've been running with them for ages to the national security conflict of interest of having a favored trading partner with a Communist country (that is diametrically opposed to our way of life). If you like buying Chinese goods, that's fine. I believe in freedom of choice. That doesn't mean I have to agree. I shop at Giant Eagle (they're a union grocery) not Walmart for food. I belong to a union myself, which might explain why I still have a job while others do not. You can call it twisted patriotism; I call it logical behavior.

If Apple's price increases were a result of moving manufacturing back to the USA as it was at the beginning of this century, I'd gladly step up and support them. But the fact is they are selling the same Chinese made computers as other companies (save Dell that at least assembles there computers in the U.S.) and charging 2-3x as much for them. Where is the value? It's in the Operating System. But what does that have to do with the hardware these days? Nothing. So the price increases are a result of greed and nothing else. Ironically, they could be capturing a larger market share if they offered more variety and lower priced computers and that could make a viable difference in the long term, but most companies think of short term profits, not long term viability which is why so many of them are out of business now or will be soon.
 
clickgr said:
Apple TV is not HTPC, it is a media center. Mac mini is also not a pure HTPC, it is a cheap mobile desktop computer that can be used as an HTPC if you want to. DVI is the proper main interconnection for mini, but HDMI as a second video port would not be a bad idea.
Click to expand...

you can always get a dvi-hdmi connector, that would still be full hd.
only u would need a separate cable for sound.
that would bug me tho.
maybe if it was hdmi to dvi/audio cable, that would be cool.
but not sure if the sound could be digital then.
 
Pppft.....

I know this is getting way off the original topic, but I happen to think it's a more important discussion than just babbling about how cool the latest Mac revisions happen to be....

The guy claiming it's somehow smarter to build a "Hackintosh" than buying Apple hardware because Apple's gear is assembled in China is totally off the mark.

The *only* prudent decision a person can ever make in a "free market economy" (like the United States at least pays lip service to) is to always buy the products offering the best VALUE for the dollar spent!

I don't know of ANY computer system one can purchase today that *is* made here in the United States? IBM sold off their Thinkpad product line to Lenovo in China already... and they USED to be made here at one time. Toshiba has never been made here. HP? Made in China too, last I checked. Dell invested many billions of dollars in Chinese parts for their systems, and I know their laptops are mostly being assembled in China.

So apparently, Apple has just followed in the footsteps every other PC maker has taken, and realized it's not cost-effective to assemble their systems on American soil. Disappointing? Sure, but you also have to remember that "assembly" isn't the whole picture. The CPU makers *are* U.S. based businesses (both Intel and AMD) and one of their products goes into each and every one of these machines. The video card and chipset makers? Again, U.S. based with engineering of new GPUs generally done right here in America.

There's also the matter of customer support after the sale, where Apple still uses U.S. based help desk support -- unlike almost all the others. So score one for Apple there.

The people going around with the "Buy Union!" and "Buy American!" mentality mean well, and can obviously see how our nation is falling apart with so much outsourcing, etc. Yet they're taking too simplistic an approach to the whole problem. (If the best product available to me is made in Germany or Japan or even China, and I skip it for an inferior USA-made offering JUST because I'm trying to "buy American" - it's a false victory. I've just sent the American company the message that they don't need to be competitive, AND I weakened my OWN financial position by buying a product that is likely to underperform and need to be scrapped and purchased a second time!)


archipellago said:
emotional, heartfelt and right to the heart of the matter.

I could NOT agree more.
Click to expand...
 
The rating on this thread (322 Positives; 773 Negatives) [ 1366 comments ].
That speaks pretty much for itself what people think about this "update"
 
chrisdee said:
No quad or firewire in Imac = Back to the stone age with Apple. Anything less than a core I7 cpu in the imac at next update will be yet another insult!
Click to expand...
The next update is probable in early 2010. There won't be Core i7, it's far too hot. The CPUs I'm thinking will be used are the dual-core Arrandales.
 
What did you expect?

chrisdee said:
No quad or firewire in Imac = Back to the stone age with Apple. Anything less than a core I7 cpu in the imac at next update will be yet another insult!
Click to expand...

What did you guys expect from an iCrap iToy manufacturer like Apple-Mattel?

Real computers?

Puh-leeeeaze. Cutting-edge desktop computers are so 2000.

Handheld iGadgets that do nothing important or valuable or strenuous with exorbitant monthly usage fees are where the action is, Baby.

:apple:
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I've had that problem with my "REAL" Macs. So have plenty of others. You act like Apple's hardware is perfect and it's FAR from it.



You've got a good point there. Apple doesn't want you to use their OS. They want you buy crap from their online stores. Usability is the furthest thing on their minds. What can we charge for next?



I don't believe you've even used one. You just sound like another ignorant fanboy panning anything and everything that isn't sold by Apple. You keep saying "a REAL Mac" as if it's anything but off-the-shelf parts purchased by Apple and that is ALL it is, stuffed into the backs of monitors where it doesn't belong or in laptop cases where the lid won't quite shut right or the keyboard doesn't type the first letter of your sentence or in my case, my external USB keyboard keeps shutting off/freezing up within 5 minutes after waking up from sleep like clockwork. Yeah, Apple makes some FINE hardware. Give them 2x the value of that hardware and experience the exact SAME problems you would with the SAME hardware sold by Dell (and many Dell computer are at least assembled in the USA, not flipping Communist CHINA like ALL Macs are these days (I mean why pay hard working Americans a decent wage to live on when you can get slave labor in a country that doesn't respect human rights? Macs USED to be proudly made in the USA (my PowerMac Digital Audio was cica 2001), but Steve Jobs wanted competitiveness and MORE PROFITS to line his pockets with and so moved it all to China.

In the end, it's ALWAYS the OS that makes a computer a Mac, for better or for worse. Spreading LIES about how Apple hardware is somehow "magical" or a "real Mac" is pure BS and you know it. I'm getting sick of reading magical purple colored puffs of smoke stories from Apple fanatics about how anything Steve touches turns to gold (more like Chinese RED IMO) when all Apple really does is make every decision to make more money for its board of directors and shareholders. There's no ethics, no patriotism, no for the sake of national security, etc. EVERYTHING is for the Almighty god of America known by his blessed name, Mr. Greenback Dollar. No wonder this country has gone down the toilet in the past decade. The few remaining companies have packed up, moved overseas and said to hell with American and moral values (and one upon a time religious values) such as FAIRNESS and BALANCE and not cheating/ripping people off at the scales. I would say charging 2-3x as much for cheap Chinese Communist goods falls into that category and Apple is right at head of the line to have everything made there. Yeah, line up to line Steve's pockets. He doesn't have enough money so he raised the prices on Macs yet again, fast approaching the gouging days of old. At least in the days of old, the computers were made in the USA by hard working Americans, not Communist Slave labor. And yet even with that cheap slave labor, Apple doesn't want to COMPETE with the likes of Dell because they want even MORE money so they say you simply 'aren't allowed' to install your bought and paid for retail copy of OS X on the computer of your choice. Well who died and made Steve Jobs the director of "no-longer" free trade and the abolisher of the 4th Amendent?

The ONLY part of a modern Mac that is "Made In The USA" is the operating system itself and it's the only part I plan to buy in the future from Apple unless they change their ways.
Click to expand...

Abso-effin-lutely.

On my fourth Unibody MacBook Pro, Apple got it right. No wonder they have to charge premium when 50-75% have to return to the factory and get scrapped for parts...

A friend of mine only had to go through two and my previous s.o. got her's right on the first one though it freezes at times so I'm not totally sure on that one.

Apple is miles/ages/eons away from the quality of SE/30 and the likes. Heck, that thing still works today albeit slow.

As it is, my next box won't be Apple branded even though I really like both my iPhone and my uMBP. So SL better deliver that 'working performance'.
 
I heard somewhere it is ilegal to install osx on a pc. I was hoping to get and Core I7 pc (since Apple has no hardware that can compete), and install my osx 10.5.6 on it. I guess I can forget about that:(
 
chrisdee said:
I heard somewhere it is ilegal to install osx on a pc. I was hoping to get and Core I7 pc (since Apple has no hardware that can compete), and install my osx 10.5.6 on it. I guess I can forget about that:(
Click to expand...

It would be in violation of Apple's EULA, the validity of which is currently the subject of a court case. Nevertheless a lot of people are doing it:

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
 
chrisdee said:
I heard somewhere it is ilegal to install osx on a pc. I was hoping to get and Core I7 pc (since Apple has no hardware that can compete), and install my osx 10.5.6 on it. I guess I can forget about that:(
Click to expand...

Illegal? Maybe. Maybe not. A court has yet to rule on it.

Immoral? Not in my book.

Do I care about Apple's demands to have a virtual monopoly on hardware for OS X. Not one bit. Screw them. I'll do whatever I want with my own hardware. Let them try and sue me. Regardless, it's very bad PR for a company to start suing its own customers. I've got two Apple computers, two Apple TV units, an Airport Express and an iPod Touch and have gotten several friends to buy iPod Touches as well. Needless to say I would never buy an Apple product again if they so much as tried to sue any private party over installing a purchased copy of OS X on hardware they bought and own. IMO, a company should NEVER EVER have the 'right' to tell you what you can do with your own hardware. The very idea of not 'permitting' you to run software you bought on hardware simply because you didn't buy that hardware from them on top of the software just even SOUNDS like corrupt mob type activity. Hardware and software are two different markets. Using one to try and force a sale in the other (because you deal in both) is immoral behavior, IMO. The basis of Capitalism is competition and that removes all competition for hardware from that tie-in. That is therefore Anti-American (oh wait a second...trying to screw other people over and rip them off IS VERY American! What was I thinking? :-/) . It also removes the freedom of choice for hardware from the consumer (don't tell me to get a PC when my software is Mac and would all be forfeit in the process) and that is the basis of the United States...freedom. The day you lose your freedoms in this country is the day this country is no longer worth living in. Apple fanatics don't get that. They think you should give Apple ALL your money, ALL your business and worship Steve Jobs or else get out of their site and go back to Windows. There is no in-betweens for FANATICS by the very definition of the word.

I use Macs because the OS is better and viruses are not an issue not because I have any allegiance to Apple or Steve Jobs. Even so, I still own a PC (which even has Linux on it as well) too because there are some things Macs don't do well (like gaming). Even if you can run Windows, the hardware (if you buy actual Apple hardware) is not well suited for gaming, for example and short of getting a Hackintosh, there's nothing you can do about that because Apple doesn't give a crap what you want in hardware terms. They DICTATE *TO* you what you can buy. They couldn't care less what you WANT. Sooner or later this will bite them in the behind. Right now they are selling a lot of things people happen to want but it's not because they listened to people, but because they were innovative. But you have to do both or sooner or later the innovation strikes the wrong chord and you're in trouble (people tend to forget about all the garbage Apple released in days past that didn't do well like the Newton, for example). All Apple would have to do is release a few stinkers in the next few years and if Windows7 isn't total crap like Vista is, they could be right back where they were at the start of this century. Apple should be careful about the choices they make right now. Their market share isn't large enough (like Windows) that they can afford to tick a lot of users off.

Maybe if companies spent less time litigating and less time trying to STOP competition and spent more time simply trying to offer high quality competitive products that people might actually want to buy the system would work like it's supposed to. The fact of the matter is that if Apple's computers are really worth buying then they have nothing to worry about from competitors that want to sell hardware that will run OS X. The better computer value will always get the sale. Or is Apple admitting their computers are overpriced just like Microsoft has been claiming and they're raking in wind-fall profits during a recession (their profits and petty cash says a big fat YES on that one, IMO).
 
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