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Apple Announces New iMacs, Mac Minis, AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule
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Yes, but the next to last entry seems to imply DRM is a Windows only thing while Apple refused to license its ironically named "Fairplay" system to a single company based on some idea of paranoia against secrecy, when in fact it was really to monopolize iTunes so it only works with Apple products. Apple is quite possibly the biggest monopolized-non-monopoly in the history of the board game based on Steve Jobz' life story of hacking phone lines in order to start up a company that supports said DRM system thus creating a rift in the space-hypocrisy continuum that is in danger of creating a paradox that destroys all post 3rd generation iPods plus all 5 existing Zunes in this galaxy not owned by the Bill Gates family.
Like many, I am very dissapointed with the new iMac and Mac Mini updates even though the Mac Mini has Dual Display now which I always wanted on the Mac Mini. The Mac Mini is way too high obviously because of the financial crisis and the state of the Pound in the UK.
Fortunately, I am not planning on buying anymore Mac computers because last year I spent only £299 on a Dell Inspiron 530 Core2Quad and put Hackintosh on it. I then bought a GeForce 8600GTS for £40 and 4GB of memory for £50. The result is that I have a really fast PC running Mac OSX Leopard and I am very happy. It is even alot faster than my MacBook Pro which was £1000 more expensive and my iMac which was nearly £400 more expensive than my Dell.
Just think if I had known about Hackintosh before I bought my MacBook Pro and iMac I could of saved myself nearly £1400. All I would of needed to buy was a copy of Leopard.
In my experiences, Dell machines are very compatable with OSX.
Art
Fortunately, I am not planning on buying anymore Mac computers because last year I spent only £299 on a Dell Inspiron 530 Core2Quad and put Hackintosh on it. I then bought a GeForce 8600GTS for £40 and 4GB of memory for £50. The result is that I have a really fast PC running Mac OSX Leopard and I am very happy. It is even alot faster than my MacBook Pro which was £1000 more expensive and my iMac which was nearly £400 more expensive than my Dell.
Just think if I had known about Hackintosh before I bought my MacBook Pro and iMac I could of saved myself nearly £1400. All I would of needed to buy was a copy of Leopard.
In my experiences, Dell machines are very compatable with OSX.
Art
I wasn't impressed with the mini (for the price). I like the form factor, not too fussed about the optical drive and would prefer a faster 3.5" disk - but that's not hugely feasible (unless the optical was removed).
My idea mini would have had hdmi instead of mini dvi - It's a decent little machine as a desktop and ht box and I would have really appreciated the one cable solution for a/v - needing an adapter from mini-dvi anyway, hdmi wouldn't have compromised on a dual display setup.
My other issues are the price and cpu speed. Apple seem pretty incompetent at making decent cooling systems, all their machines (bar the pro) seem to run pretty hot - and in my experience often suffer the consequences down the line. If I can buy a cheap, low profile heatsink that can cool a hot intel quad, why can't apple switch to desktop cpus, and pass on the speed/cost savings to customers? I read people talking about x cpu being 'too high a tdp' - it's complete rubbish when you see what you can buy off the shelf or inside other low profile/workstation laptops etcetc, let alone being a massive IT firm with an engineering department (I assume they do...)
£100 odd quid off the price and I probably would have bought one (bearing in mind that I don't really need one) - A really good value machine that didn't have unnecessary compromises/output concerns and I would have probably bought one for every room in the house, and pushed them to friends/family/etc who come to me for IT advice (none are current mac users).
I had a great experience trying osx on a random (insanely cheap) dell machine. It worked so well, I sold my mp (the only apple product I have), and now only use osx86. No compromises (quite the opposite..) and exponentially more value to me, apple is going to have a hard time getting me back as a customer - couldn't care less about the past/brands/whatever, it's a good value, quality product I'm after - and I can't see it at apple.com and their resellers.
ps. Please stop with the car analogies and 'you get what you pay for' comments - 99% of the time you're wrong and 100% of the time, highly irritating
arrogance+
My idea mini would have had hdmi instead of mini dvi - It's a decent little machine as a desktop and ht box and I would have really appreciated the one cable solution for a/v - needing an adapter from mini-dvi anyway, hdmi wouldn't have compromised on a dual display setup.
My other issues are the price and cpu speed. Apple seem pretty incompetent at making decent cooling systems, all their machines (bar the pro) seem to run pretty hot - and in my experience often suffer the consequences down the line. If I can buy a cheap, low profile heatsink that can cool a hot intel quad, why can't apple switch to desktop cpus, and pass on the speed/cost savings to customers? I read people talking about x cpu being 'too high a tdp' - it's complete rubbish when you see what you can buy off the shelf or inside other low profile/workstation laptops etcetc, let alone being a massive IT firm with an engineering department (I assume they do...)
£100 odd quid off the price and I probably would have bought one (bearing in mind that I don't really need one) - A really good value machine that didn't have unnecessary compromises/output concerns and I would have probably bought one for every room in the house, and pushed them to friends/family/etc who come to me for IT advice (none are current mac users).
I had a great experience trying osx on a random (insanely cheap) dell machine. It worked so well, I sold my mp (the only apple product I have), and now only use osx86. No compromises (quite the opposite..) and exponentially more value to me, apple is going to have a hard time getting me back as a customer - couldn't care less about the past/brands/whatever, it's a good value, quality product I'm after - and I can't see it at apple.com and their resellers.
ps. Please stop with the car analogies and 'you get what you pay for' comments - 99% of the time you're wrong and 100% of the time, highly irritating
arrogance+
Most accurate post, probably ever. That describes 98% of this website's membership, to the letter.
In fact, that was perfect.
In my opinion, this clearly shows that you do not understand the product, or Apple product line.
They have one product with an HDMI port, the only one that is intended to be connected to an HDMI equipped tv.
The new mini, with its processor, NVIDIA, and more, is the best value Mac ever sold. (Value = what it can do vs. what da $$$$) Whether or not you're impressed does not change that.
I don't really understand the product line no.
As a potential customer, ignoring their failings in the past, I'd like a cheap and fast machine with osx. Putting together a pc (even a sff one inside the mini's case) isn't exactly a huge, risky investment - You can build one with off the shelf parts without leaving the intel website. I don't even think most people actually want/need an xMac (ie. a mac mini with a removable gfx card - the component with least value for money when upgrading?), even apple let's you replace the essentials.
Having only one product that 'is intended to be plugged into an hdtv' is rather limiting isn't it? Personally I think the atv is awful. I like good value (yes, I understand what it means) media too, and like to be able to use it how I like. I've never bought a song/show/rented off itunes, and don't plan to for the foreseeable future - the atv is just an itunes extender (doesn't it irritate you there's atv only features, that for no reason are not available on osx?) and there's far better alternatives out there for people that want instant, hq/hd media throughout the house.
Apple's laptops and mini's are easy to move around, and surely plugging into a tv is something people often want to do? HDMI still lets you to use an adapter to plug into a monitor, but also gives you (and your less techy friends) a one cable, 'digital scart' option that is available 'everywhere'.
The current situation involves always using an adapter, wrestling with vga/dvi/component connections on a tv/projector, trying to get osx to work at a certain res/refresh, and often trying to get round whatever limitations the tv manufacturer decided to put on the 'non-hdmi' connection. Once you've played around for ages and just about got a display up, you can search for another uncommon cable, try and get the analog/optical sound into your tv (sometimes not possible with whatever input you're forced to use)/receiver, then give up and use the internal laptop speakers/subtitles
My main irritation with this, is that it's completely pointless. It's not an exaggeration, it's far more practical for every scenario, the only drawback is a minute licensing cost - why is the an apple premium again?
I'm not impressed no.
As a potential customer, ignoring their failings in the past, I'd like a cheap and fast machine with osx. Putting together a pc (even a sff one inside the mini's case) isn't exactly a huge, risky investment - You can build one with off the shelf parts without leaving the intel website. I don't even think most people actually want/need an xMac (ie. a mac mini with a removable gfx card - the component with least value for money when upgrading?), even apple let's you replace the essentials.
Having only one product that 'is intended to be plugged into an hdtv' is rather limiting isn't it? Personally I think the atv is awful. I like good value (yes, I understand what it means) media too, and like to be able to use it how I like. I've never bought a song/show/rented off itunes, and don't plan to for the foreseeable future - the atv is just an itunes extender (doesn't it irritate you there's atv only features, that for no reason are not available on osx?) and there's far better alternatives out there for people that want instant, hq/hd media throughout the house.
Apple's laptops and mini's are easy to move around, and surely plugging into a tv is something people often want to do? HDMI still lets you to use an adapter to plug into a monitor, but also gives you (and your less techy friends) a one cable, 'digital scart' option that is available 'everywhere'.
The current situation involves always using an adapter, wrestling with vga/dvi/component connections on a tv/projector, trying to get osx to work at a certain res/refresh, and often trying to get round whatever limitations the tv manufacturer decided to put on the 'non-hdmi' connection. Once you've played around for ages and just about got a display up, you can search for another uncommon cable, try and get the analog/optical sound into your tv (sometimes not possible with whatever input you're forced to use)/receiver, then give up and use the internal laptop speakers/subtitles
My main irritation with this, is that it's completely pointless. It's not an exaggeration, it's far more practical for every scenario, the only drawback is a minute licensing cost - why is the an apple premium again?
I'm not impressed no.
I don't agree. The WhiteBook is the current best value - more so in the UK and probably elsewhere outside of the US.
The Mac mini is simply the cheapest.
You got it backwards. The Mini and Macbooks are computers. In computer world, DVI is it. The good thing is that it isn't harder to convert DVI to HDMI with off the shelf parts.
For sound, the only option that isn't available out of the box with an off the shelf cable is COAX and that is getting rarer and rarer. I've been using a mini jack to Stereo RCA audio cable for like 15 years now, they're available everywhere for peanuts and everything is compatible with that if you can't get optical audio to work.
Basically, your gripes are that the AppleTV isn't more of an HTPC, not that the Mini isn't an HTPC.
Enlighten me please, how do you output to multiple monitors using a whitebook ? And no, the laptop's 13" screen doesn't count.
Quite possibly, they're both just small pcs that sit behind the tv and are relatively portable - why should either of them be unnecessarily nonfunctional.
I havn't got it backwards. They're just standard connectors that transmit a standard digital signal. As you know they're interchangeable so having either doesn't make a huge difference, but one sends sound (hd sound too, that you can't get through a toslink cable) and is compatible with all hdtvs. Like I said, many hdtvs have a selection of alternative inputs, not all of them. DVI/vga/component often have strange limitations on tvs, and just as commonly have issues with lipsync or not mixing an audio input with a certain video input. It's limiting for no reason (other than your suggestion of mixing product lines?....)
Why doesn't it count?
We're talking about value here, not ultimate feature count. You may value a small desktop Mac. Others may value the better flexibility of a notebook - especially given that there is no performance penalty in this comparison.In any case, you can run 2 external 24" DVI monitors from a WhiteBook - using a Matrox DualHead2Go Digital Edition.
It's only a limitation if you intend to connect the Mac Mini to a TV, which is probably not the majority of Mini users nor is it the Mini's market segment.
Like I said, the Mini isn't a HTPC out of the box. It's not a failure of the product, it's just that you aren't the target market. You can adapt the Mini to be connected to a TV, but again, you are using the product for something it was not designed for.
Hence why I don't see how lacking a HDMI output is a negative in any way.
Why doesn't it count?
In any case, you can run 2 external 24" DVI monitors from a WhiteBook - using a Matrox DualHead2Go Digital Edition.
You said the whitebook was the best value. You just contradicted yourself when you say that not everyone has the same needs. Hence the Whitebook isn't the best value to everyone.
The Macbook's display doesn't count because of it's small size and resolution. The Matrox solution is also available to a mini, bumping up it's display count too (as long as the nVidia chip can keep up) to about 4 or 5 (since you will be able to use a TripleHead2go digital on the miniDisplayPort) so I don't see how that's a + for the whitebook.
Like you said, different strokes for different folks, my point was that there is no absolute answer as to what Mac is the best value right now.
And like I said, it's limited for no reason
Why not 'design' it plug into tv's easily too if there isn't a drawback? Why not do the same (slightly less relevent now with display port - if and when there's ever suitable cables for it...and sound?...) for their laptops - surely people are plugging those into tv's occasionally too? The atv isn't really a htpc, it's just itunes with an hdmi connector, and an 'htpc' is basically just a pc plugged into a screen in front of a seat.
It's not just people that want a permanent (or portable) home theater from their machines that would benefit from being less limited (the hardware output and unnecessarily gimped software) either.
And like I said, it's limited for no reason
Why not 'design' it plug into tv's easily too if there isn't a drawback? Why not do the same (slightly less relevent now with display port - if and when there's ever suitable cables for it...and sound?...) for their laptops - surely people are plugging those into tv's occasionally too? The atv isn't really a htpc, it's just itunes with an hdmi connector, and an 'htpc' is basically just a pc plugged into a screen in front of a seat.
It's not just people that want a permanent (or portable) home theater from their machines that would benefit from being less limited (the hardware output and unnecessarily gimped software) either.
Because that's not the Mini's market. Apple has decided that the AppleTV is their "almost an HTPC" solution. As such, the Mini is designed as a computer, for the sff market. HDMI, being mostly a television interconnect, is thus not used in favor of computer standards like DVI, Displayport and VGA.
Not at all. I just defined what a value judgement is. To me, having a built-in display + notebook flexibility for the same performance is better value than a Mac mini, especially at UK prices.
You just contradicted yourself:
"The new mini, with its processor, NVIDIA, and more, is the best value Mac ever sold".
Then you say:
"my point was that there is no absolute answer as to what Mac is the best value right now".
QED
You just contradicted yourself:
"The new mini, with its processor, NVIDIA, and more, is the best value Mac ever sold".
Then you say:
"my point was that there is no absolute answer as to what Mac is the best value right now".
QED
No, the first quote is not mine so I haven't contradicted myself.
I do apologise - too many people arguing in this thread
Neither of us has contradicted ourselves in that case
I think you should look up the definition of the word "opinion" (here's a hint; your last sentence is nearly the definition already) and then ask yourself why in the UNIVERSE you are hassling this guy....
That's illogical. If the display is good enough to use full time for someone that wants a notebook, why should it not be useful as a 2nd monitor? Most people that have a 2nd monitor with a Mac probably use it for things like video editing playback or a DVD player or photo viewing and what not where 13" is just fine. I've got a MBP and yeah I do sometimes use it as a 2nd monitor when docked (along with a 24" LG LCD). I'm supposed to pretend that is NOT two monitors when it clearly is despite the fact you don't seem to approve of the SIZE of the 2nd monitor? Give me a friggin' break already.
Sure there is. It's called a Hackintosh. Look into it. Apple's Mac offerings are overpriced and underpowered for their market segments.
Many comparisons have been made in the last few days of Apple products and their competition, and I've never seen any of this overpriced thing you say. Aside from the Quad core Dell all-in-one vs the iMac, most Apple products are very competitive in their own segments.
Of course, most people just want a huge and cheap tower, a product Apple is not offering. If you find value in a hulking plastic case with huge power draw and a cheap price, then go ahead with your hackintosh.
BTW, I'm not hassling the guy, we're discussing. This is a discussion forum after all, it would be boring as hell and devoid of information if everyone always agreed and never offered any new insight.
It's a monitor and a small monitor. I'm guessing that most people would prefer two identical monitors but even if not, the Mini is rather more flexible here.
Have you actually tried using one though? A hackintosh is only cheap if your time costs nothing.
You could buy/build a machine in any case you want. Huge power draw (did you make this assumption after watching a 'green' apple advert on telly?) is simply an ignorant comment. Cheap prices are good, I'd feel a bit dumb if I paid more for the same thing - especially when we're talking about identical chips put inside a metal (or plastic...ohh the horror) box.
A hackintosh is only cheap if your time costs nothing.
Spend an hour reading and fiddling and you might be surprised with the results, have a bit of fun doing it and learn a bit more about osx.
For people that spend time and post advice and opinions on a 'tech' forum I'm surprised people bother with irritating comments like this. It seems to be the generic response to "use/try/play with a hackintosh", like "don't buy one if you can't afford one" and "you get what you pay for" is to 'I don't think macs are good value'
If you try and build something with the Mini's form factor and power draw, the Mini is going to be the very competitive.
Your choice will either be the a SFF PC like the Dell Studio Hybrid or something based on the Intel Atom which will be grossly underpowered (or how's Via platform doing ? Nano ATX and mini ATX ?).
The mini is competitive for what it is, it is not competitive against generic low end towers. Of course, it's not trying to be.
The problem with the Mini's value is that people mistake it for a low end tower PC and then call it on faults based on that comparison (lack of upgradability, higher price point, lack of options).
Maybe you also don't like good fit and finish, but I can appreciate it. I've been using homemade PCs and Dell laptops for the last 20 years and quality has dropped in that arena in the last 5. My 2 last Dell laptops have been awful as far as fit and finish go.
I've probably done more fiddling than most here, back in the PearPC days and later with hackintosh in VMware and on desktops and notebooks.
And you know what I learned? That it's a fragile kludge, and that there's always something that doesn't work quite right. So your sound is slightly off or you'll need to use some PCI network card because your onboard won't work, or your Mac won't go to sleep when the lid closes, or it won't wake up, etc etc. And then when it sorta works, you'll always be on guard for which update might mess things up next. It's time better spent learning Linux or BSD or Solaris, at least those people *want* you to use their OS.
No, the hackintosh end user experience is not comparable to a real Mac, and when I see people claiming that a hackintosh is the 'best value', well that's just silly.