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Which backfired. Because people who have never heard of cookies will mindlessly click accept all. Then when the next big Chrome update asks the user for the last time "do you want us to accept all cookies for you?" people will click yes via muscle memory.
Today, most people will have encountered cookie walls and many of these will have seen news articles about it. But I will not doubt there are people that don't understand what they are, really. This requires more societal education on the topic. It doesn't mean that it has given us the power of choice. Those who will press accept, will have lived with them before. But don't underestimate the importnace of privacy, it has given us an option for increased privacy, because this is a right we have, even though not all people care about it.
doesn't change the fact that many hours were lost in implementing the popup.
I don't see the problem, I am happy the EU requires strict vehicle safety regulation. I am not going to complain about how much time it cost to install a seatbelt.
Then I guess you haven't bet.
 
So after 15 years we might get more "refuse all" buttons on some websites that may or may not do what it says? Wow! /s
There have been multiple cases over the years in several countries, the most recent one I am aware of is the one in Germany. Frankly, I can't remember all of them, and I can't bother to search them up for you.
 
Fun fact, on my browser I use a proper browser (Firefox), which allows me to block cookies and cookie walls using uBlock Origin. On my iPhone I am hamstringed by crappy webkit and here I actually do have to click through many more cookie walls. And yes, I do refuse the essential only/refuse all, all the time.
 
Why couldn't other people make good phones that they can make "good accessories" for? 🤣

Because not every company needs to make the whole product. Just like Logitech makes good keyboards without building computers, or Pirelli makes world-class tires without making cars.

It's like asking why doesn't Tag Heuer make a phone to go with their smartwatch. It's because they're a watch company.
 
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Fun fact, on my browser I use a proper browser (Firefox), which allows me to block cookies and cookie walls using uBlock Origin. On my iPhone I am hamstringed by crappy webkit and here I actually do have to click through many more cookie walls. And yes, I do refuse the essential only/refuse all, all the time.

You left out the part where Safari only has the illusion of choice of search engines! Apple already chose 5 and only 5 for you to choose from.
 
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There have been multiple cases over the years in several countries, the most recent one I am aware of is the one in Germany. Frankly, I can't remember all of them, and I can't bother to search them up for you.
What do unnamed cases matter when the implementation is fundamentally flawed? The notices are annoying AND ineffective AND inconsistent. Clicking a button saying "Reject All" doesn't help if the website has the option to just ignore my input.
 
What are you on about?
It’s about the fact that apple being the makers of the operating system are deliberately giving their products advantage over the competition not by hardware
Yup, business 101.
But with software that nobody else can use so that is deliberately giving them advantage over the competition because then it makes it a selling point to entice people to purchase their products over everyone else’s
Still business 101. Develop innovative solutions s for customer problems.
 
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Today, most people will have encountered cookie walls and many of these will have seen news articles about it. But I will not doubt there are people that don't understand what they are, really. This requires more societal education on the topic. It doesn't mean that it has given us the power of choice. Those who will press accept, will have lived with them before. But don't underestimate the importnace of privacy, it has given us an option for increased privacy, because this is a right we have, even though not all people care about it.

And the worst way to treat privacy is with a half-baked solution that minimizes the importance of privacy in everyone's mind. Supporting the idea that the EU doesn't know what they're doing.

I don't see the problem

Added cost to developing a website.

I am not going to complain about how much time it cost to install a seatbelt.

If it takes longer to build a car, you pay more for the same car as the car company is going to install the seatbelt properly anyways for when gov body does safety testing. Pretty sure you'd complain.

Then I guess you haven't bet.
Who said money is part of the bet? Got you there.
 
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Because not every company needs to make the whole product.

Oh so you're saying companies should freeload off the multibillion dollar bet Apple placed in making the iPhone.

No thanks. I don't support that.

Just like Logitech makes good keyboards without building computers

If a computer had zero usb ports and you had to use a terrible keyboard Apple made (like the butterfly switch keyboards), you'd simply don't buy that computer.

Apple will see their sales decline and be forced to switch back to a different keyboard switch mechanism. Exactly what happened.
 
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You left out the part where Safari only has the illusion of choice of search engines! Apple already chose 5 and only 5 for you to choose from.
Because I get tired of repeating it ;) I hope Firefox will eventually launch with Gecko. Hopefully well before I try GrapheneOS in a year or 4/5 (unless they will launch a smaller device (we can hope)).
 
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What do unnamed cases matter when the implementation is fundamentally flawed?
Cause legal process will add to clarifying the details of 'cookie walls'.
The notices are annoying AND
an inconvenience is what I would call it, but I get why you say that.
ineffective
They are effective.
inconsistent.
They are not consistent, no, but I find many use a similar template
Clicking a button saying "Reject All" doesn't help if the website has the option to just ignore my input.
In that case you should make a complain with the GDPR

I think NOYB put it pretty well:
Blame it on the GDPR? Many internet users mistake this annoying situation as a direct outcome of the GDPR, when in fact companies misuse designs in violation of the law. The GDPR demands a simple “yes” or “no”, as reasonable people would expect, but companies often have the power over the design and narrative when implementing the GDPR.
 
And the worst way to treat privacy is with a half-baked solution that minimizes the importance of privacy in everyone's mind. Supporting the idea that the EU doesn't know what they're doing.
The worst way is to let it be.
Added cost to developing a website.
I think you really overestimate the effort that goes into a cookiebanner. Also, if the website needs a cookiebanner, I don't mind they have to take the effort to make a banner. If that really is an issue, they could chose to not use cookies or only necessary ones.
If it takes longer to build a car, you pay more for the same car as the car company is going to install the seatbelt properly anyways for when gov body does safety testing. Pretty sure you'd complain.
I'd rather pay for the safety than with my life.
Who said money is part of the bet? Got you there.
I frankly do not care about the bet you made with yourself.
 
Cause legal process will add to clarifying the details of 'cookie walls'.
Lipstick on a pig seems to be the appropriate phrase. Again, cookie notices don't work. That's why you use your browser to block them.

an inconvenience is what I would call it, but I get why you say that.

They are effective.
No, they're not. There is nothing to prevent a website from ignoring the user input or putting up a fake notice. Plus, not all websites use them.

They are not consistent, no, but I find many use a similar template
The template is only part of the issue. Again, only some websites even have them.

In that case you should make a complaint with the GDPR

I think NOYB put it pretty well:
Sure, I could do a lot of research and digital forensics for every website I visit. Or... the EU could replace the directive with one that is consistent, effective, easy to implement at the browser level, contains options for how to handle cookies by default, and is portable/sync-able across the browsers I use.
 
No, they're not.
Let say we agree that it is not perfect, but disagree on whether they are useful. I find them useful while they are not perfect. Would I love to see a better implementation? Sure, but I am happy we have something inplace rather then nothing.
 
Let say we agree that it is not perfect, but disagree on whether they are useful.
Not perfect is an understatement.

I find them useful while they are not perfect.
The fact that you block them would seem to contradict that statement.

Would I love to see a better implementation? Sure, but I am happy we have something inplace rather then nothing.
But that's entirely the point that I made originally. A better implementation is available, but we're stuck with something designed by bureaucrats. Just like the DMA.
 
Not perfect is an understatement.
Your opinion, which is fine.
The fact that you block them would seem to contradict that statement.
No, it does not, because I already acknowledge they are not perfect, but that I think it is important that they are there. It is easy in hindsight to complain that companies try hard to implement things in a way that undermines the purpose.
But that's entirely the point that I made originally. A better implementation is available, but we're stuck with something designed by bureaucrats. Just like the DMA.
You came up with a nice idea, sounds good. Do you have any links to how it would work? By just hating on GDPR you neglect how it came to be. Would we have any protection without GDPR? I don’t know 🤷
 
Those who can’t make sense of this are the likely the ones who don’t care for an open system, which, as you said, would be a broad majority of people.

I don't think this follows at all outside of an enthusiasts' forum where people specifically think in those terms.

Ask people whether they'd like their non-Apple wireless headphones to connect easily to their device, to have a quick and easy way to exchange files with their Windows PC or to purchase ebooks in the Kindle app and I wouldn't expect broad support for a closed system.

I'm sure you'll find examples that will demonstrate the opposite, hence my original point about contradictory answers.

All I'm saying is that I am just not convinced a lot of people specifically buy Apple products because they are a closed ecosystem. They will buy products for reasons that flow from that, ie how well things work together, but they will also buy despite of it or simply for reasons that have nothing to do with any of that. My wife, for example, has an iPhone because I have an iPhone and she wanted the same thing because she thinks it's easier, but there's absolutely no reason for that.

That purchasing decision may otherwise be totally unimportant, but it still has effects on which products and services people (can) use, simply because they're now in the ecosystem.

Like I said, integration doesn’t just fall from the sky.

Windows and android are more open, but the downside is that you don’t really see much integration between the various hardware vendors because again, who’s going to pay for it and what’s the benefit exactly if it doesn’t allow you to meaningfully differentiate your product in the market? Devices are devices, and they kinda just exist and do their own individual things.

More competition in vertical integration is welcome, sure.

Mixing and matching devices from different manufacturers isn't "vertical integration". It's getting a watered down experience. See headaches of pairing bluetooth.

Meanwhile, Apple implements one-button pairing of AirPods across all of your Apple devices. That's where the magic happens.

Microsoft should have continued building a phone and tablet. They probably could have come up with new vertical integration ideas better than Apple.

No, of course it doesn't, but the lack of proper integration is as much a result of the move toward ecosystems as it is the result of it.

Before the iPod and the iPhone and AirPods and whatnot, Apple had stuff like iSync in order to make it easier to integrate mobile phones and other accessories into your Mac. Better integration, including things like better pairing with Bluetooth headphones, could very much be a competitive advantage if competition between platforms happened entirely on the basis of what the platform can do.

Of course companies will lose interest in pushing any of this when they are also trying to sell you wireless headphones and smartwatches and other accessories.
 
If Sony and Microsoft used common APIs, developers can only focus on one set of APIs and deploy to multiple consoles.
They would by definition be one single console. If android and iOS used a common api standard they would be the same os. If windows and Mac used the same api they would also be the same os…
The fact that Sony/Microsoft doesn't use interoperable APIs means they're literally stopping their games from functioning on Windows/Xbox. Just like how Apple is using proprietary APIs which won't work anywhere else. I think you're arguing something I'm arguing with from Apple's side.
That’s a nonsensical statement. Why would anyone be required to use the same APIs? Mandating interoperability means the market is the one to decide how that is met.

Just how Apple isn’t mandated to use the same API as everyone else.
Except the hardware is more than capable of running these games. It's a software issue. Not going to repeat myself again.
I agree and completely irrelevant. It could as we’ll be on the moon.
Assume Apple doesn't include the USB-C cable: when most lightning iPhone users return to buy a USB-C iPhone, they will be buying a USB-C cable separately because they don't have a spare one to charge the iPhone with. That increases emissions much more than just including the USB-C cable in the box.
They could do that… or do you require EU to dictate if cables should or shouldn’t be included instead of being allowed to choose?
Whereas if Apple kept lightning, they could simply remove lightning and only first time iPhone buyers would need to buy the cable separately. There are less first time buyers than returning lightning iPhone buyers.
Apple didn’t do this for the last few year either. So it’s a mute hypothetical when they had the freedom and chose not to get rid of the lightning cable.
Great so, what's the issue?
There no issue as nobody is in the way.
So is this forum.
And you and others keep using the term monopoly when you know Apple can’t be a monopoly irrespective of circumstance in EU. And hence why I try to use more fitting words to prevent unnecessary confusion between our two great legal systems.
So after 15 years we might get more "refuse all" buttons on some websites that may or may not do what it says? Wow! /s
It hasnefosted for 15 years, but 7. And this is what can happen sometimes when you allow more freedom to the market as they give it a chance. Nothing prevents browser from implementing this voluntarily. But if the market still can’t handle it then they get to step in again.
That's an arbitrary distinction.

Each point I gave "deliberately give yourself an unfair advantage over the competitors". But now it's only exclusive to operating systems.
It isn’t. It’s based on market dominance. That’s all. And if they abuse their market dominance. Having an advantage isn’t illegal.
Ok. Sony developed their own operating system for the Playstation. Does this mean Microsoft should be able to build software and install it on people's Playstations without approval by Sony? Because currently Sony must approve all software that gets installed.
They shouldn’t without people’s approval.
 
The worst way is to let it be.
Incorrect. Already stated the half baked solution is a net negative.

I think you really overestimate the effort that goes into a cookiebanner.

I'm a web dev of 10+ years. Nope. 1.2 billion websites exist. Assume half are compliant, that's 600 million times it needs to be implemented. Companies want the frontend to be on brand, translated, and run by legal.

Also, if the website needs a cookiebanner, I don't mind they have to take the effort to make a banner.

I don't know why you're giving an opinion on whether you're ok with it. I'm simply supporting the idea that it's a net negative on society to be implemented several hundred million times.

I'd rather pay for the safety than with my life.

The seatbelt would be there even if it wasn't mandated because gov performs safety tests and if safety tests return saying "seatbelt didn't work at all" the car's sale would be in jeopardy.

I frankly do not care about the bet you made with yourself.

You cared enough to comment that it would cost me money. Suddenly you don't care. Odd.

I don't see how this conversation is progressing at all, so have a good one.
 
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playstation doesn't allow xbox games to run natively on their hardware, despite playstation and xbox consoles having very similar hardware. playstation won't allow valve to bring their steam store to playstation consoles, despite plenty of PC games can literally run on playstation consoles without modification.

You know I would love if I could buy digital games from alternative storefronts or have better integration for third party controllers, but in terms of volumes consoles are phone platforms are just not comparable.

Apple alone sells about as many iPhones in 2-3 years as all PlayStation and Xbox consoles combined starting with the original PlayStation and Xbox. Apple sells about twice as many iPhones in a year than PS5s and Series X|S since the beginning of this console generation. There's about 1.5bn active iPhones in the world and they are a minority platform in terms of installs.

Plus other than games and maybe a bit of media they aren't really used in the same way.

I just don't see the 'compelling reason' to intervene in consoles as there is for phone platforms.
 
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I don't think this follows at all outside of an enthusiasts' forum where people specifically think in those terms.
I'm commenting sentiment of outside an enthusiasts forum to which you agreed under the premise that regular people don't understand this. If they don't understand this, then they likely aren't even asking for it.

All I'm saying is that I am just not convinced a lot of people specifically buy Apple products because they are a closed ecosystem.

I'm not convinced the majority are asking for it to be an open system. Therefore the law shouldn't be forced unless we have hard data showing otherwise.


No, of course it doesn't,

You replied to a chunk of text so I don't know what you're referring to.

Before the iPod and the iPhone and AirPods and whatnot, Apple had stuff like iSync in order to make it easier to integrate mobile phones and other accessories into your Mac. Better integration, including things like better pairing with Bluetooth headphones, could very much be a competitive advantage if competition between platforms happened entirely on the basis of what the platform can do.

Why should Apple be crippled for taking the hard route of building an entire platform while other companies refuse and instead go the easy route of piggy backing on Apple's hard work?
 
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They would by definition be one single console.

Exactly!

If iOS were to be opened up and support all kinds of devices like Android, consumers would simply have only one single phone to choose from. It doesn't matter if they choose Android or iOS since they use all the standardized APIs that any other phone were to be required to implement. You'd just get some different processors or cameras but it would essentially be the single option you have. Just like if PS5 and Xbox were to use the same software, you'd probably have slight differences in power/speed/storage but it'll be one single console. There would be very little reason for 2 very similarly designed consoles to exist.
 
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You know I would love if I could buy digital games from alternative storefronts or have better integration for third party controllers, but in terms of volumes consoles are phone platforms are just not comparable.

Arbitrary distinction just like how EU defines gatekeeper status. It's purely subjective to set a threshold of X users or sell X number of devices that you're suddenly treated differently.

It seems like these rules aren't based on principle but based on being against big companies, even if big companies are doing the correct things.

Perhaps these companies got big because billions of customers are voting with their wallets that a product is a good product. And the only way for a closed system to exist is if customers stop buying them, no matter how much they like the product. Counter-intuitive.
 
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