Let this bad example not reflect on all the sensible developers that understood the terms of the DTK Mac usage. A token credit is a nice gesture from Apple.
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Apple Asks Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis in Exchange for $200 Credit Toward M1 Mac
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Now all developers will complain, seriously where would 80% of these”developers” be if it wasn’t for apple. developers are the greedy ones, why don’t more people realize this? I like how they agree to terms, the they don’t agree to terms. Very odd, again #greedydevelopers
Ahead of the release of the M1 Macs, Apple provided developers with a Developer Transition Kit that included a Mac mini equipped with an A12Z Bionic chip first used in the iPad Pro, 16GB RAM, a 512GB SSD, two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, and an HDMI 2.0 port.
These DTKs were offered up on a temporary basis to developers who paid $500 for access, and were aimed at giving developers a way to create Universal apps to prepare for the transition from Intel processors to Apple silicon chips.
Apple is now asking developers to return their Developer Transition Kits in exchange for a one-time use code that will provide a $200 discount on an M1 Mac.
Apple first sent out Developer Transition Kits at the end of June, so developers have had them on hand for the last seven months. Developers were meant to have a year with the DTK for app development purposes, but other benefits that include a private discussion forum and technical support will continue to be available for the full 12 month period.
Some developers are unhappy with Apple's compensation given the initial $500 price of the DTK program and the bugs that were experienced that made using the DTK difficult. The last time Apple had a similar program for the transition from PowerPC to Intel chips, Apple provided developers with the first Intel-based Mac for free.
The $200 credit can be used for any Mac, and the $699 Mac mini would be the cheapest option available to developers who want to pick up a new M1 Mac for continued development. The credit must be used by the end of May.
Article Link: Apple Asks Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis in Exchange for $200 Credit Toward M1 Mac
Developers are greedy people, most apps are horrible anyways
I think those developers deserve a better deal than that. Apple does seem to be doing quite well enough to afford a replacement M1 Mac for developers. Of course, I don't know what the original agreement was for those DTK Macs. I just think developers should get back what they paid for the DTK Mac mini as Apple needed those developer's skills to help build the M1 ARM platform. I'm not saying it's owed to them, but it would be a nice gesture on Apple's part. What good are those DTK Mac minis to Apple, anyway?
It is not. As if stated earlier, if you return the DTK within the time window they will indicate in their follow up email then you haven't returned the DTK early, you've returned it on time. It might be earlier than the deadline, but the act itself is not early, the act is done on time. The act would've been done early if you'd return it before they asked it back.
Just because the last date isn't known doesn't mean its not imminent. It's not just "soon". "In a few weeks" is pretty clear. Few means more than two, but not much more. Meaning that it's in the near future. Next step up from that would be "within a month" or "next month". So we know that it's unlikely that it will be more than 4 weeks.
No idea why you decided to single out "who were first to receive the DTKs in June"? For starters no one received a DTK in June, the UAQSP was announced on June 22nd, first DTKs didn't start arriving until after the month of June was over. Secondly, yes you're right, it is very much applicable to the people who received it first, as much as it is applicable to the ones that received it just before the sign up for the UAQSP was closed.
All I'm hearing is hopeful wishing.
Uh, no. You were arguing the general meaning of the word "early" instead of arguing it in the context of the debate. I made no mention of a special definition in the agreement whatsoever.
Again, that doesn't affect how wrong you are about the definition of early. Nor does the lack of a time window at present affect the meaning of the word early.
A timeframe was given, you just mentioned it. The time frame is "in a few weeks". That's the timeframe in which you'll receive instructions to return the DTK. You're just doing some weird ridiculous mental gymnastics to be able to argue that perhaps they might tell you to return it by the end of the program or that perhaps they'll tell you to return it by the next millennium and hey, why stop there, why not see if they throw in a reach-around as well? It has about the same likelihood.
In a few weeks when the email arrives and it plainly says something along the lines of "print out the attached label, attach it to the box and drop it off at UPS" without a mention of a deadline will you then argue that, because they didn't specify a deadline, you are free to hold onto it until the end of the program?
Your wishful thinking had mutated into irrational thinking. Luckily if this were ever up for dispute this would be resolved by looking at what a reasonable person would conclude. And any reasonable person would conclude that the return of the DTK is imminent.
The key words in the email are "now", "soon" and "few weeks". Whatever few weeks will end up being, no reasonable person would agree that 4 months from now, June, let alone something like September/October/November fits the description of "soon" or "few weeks".
Like I've said, the email is at best a notice of the intention to effectuate that clause and at worst it is the request itself with instructions to follow later. Just because they didn't mention a timeline, not a requirement mentioned anywhere in the clause mind you, doesn't mean the clause isn't triggered.
So you've wisely chosen to back paddle and retroactively adjusted your stance, good for you. Makes you seem less unreasonable, if only barely so.I've already said the upcoming email could say return by March 1. It could also say after the end of the program. Either of those or similar outcomes do not prove me wrong one bit as my current stance is "nothing has changed so far, but it remains a possibility that the upcoming email could ask for it earlier than the 30-days-after-Term-ends".
But I'm willing to bet my wallet that you're going to ignore that aren't you?
I didn't ignore that part, so tell me what's in your wallet? I'd like to know what I've won?
The real bet would be you sticking to your guns and not returning the DTK, ignoring any possible reminder emails in the process and see where it lands you.
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When Apple wrapped up the last transition, they gave the developers the option of returning the DTK then (in exchange for the iMac), or they could keep the DTK for the full duration of the program and get nothing in return. Part of the reason for that was that some individuals had reverse engineered the system, and consequently the new Mac OS was out in the wild before its initial release. The trade-in program was launched in essence to prevent further reverse engineering, since that DTK (like the 2020 version) was a hodgepodge system rather than a fully-featured, fully functional system. There was no language in the developer agreement for the DTK even implying developers might get a free Mac in exchange for their participation. That was entirely speculation from the general public and many within the developer community. The other part that gets glossed over is that back in 2005, it cost $500 a year to be part of the Apple Developer program, so developers were paying more into the system at that time, and also there were far fewer developers in 2005 than there are in 2021.
While the economics at play in 2005 (coupled with the reverse engineering and leaks by developers) allowed Apple to give away free iMacs to those who returned their DTKs early, the larger number of developers around today would likely mean that even if Apple gave the base M1 Mini to DTK participants, the total cost to Apple would be significantly higher than what they wound up eating the cost of in 2005.
No matter what the legality, Apple failed it's developers and hides behind their terms. They're like a predatory landlord taking advantage of offering a bad product that they marketed toward developers and profited from. They may be legally protected, but they're not exactly earning goodwill. They may have had such terms, but they weren't enticing people outside of the agreement by saying our product sucks, and you will pay $500 for something that will probably break
Speaking as a developer myself, it was always pretty clear that the DTK with an explicit one-year lease was a premium option meant for companies that wanted to be able to have day-one Apple Silicon apps tested and shipping, for whom the $500 was a minor fee to pay for immediate access to the market. For smaller, cost-conscious developers, waiting for a retail M1 machine was by far the more sensible option.
Expiring the $200 credits so soon, and not offering a means to first claim the credit, then ship back the DTK (so you don't have to spend time without an Apple Silicon machine on hand, with revocation of the credit if the DTK doesn't get there in a few weeks) does seem less friendly than it should be, though.
Expiring the $200 credits so soon, and not offering a means to first claim the credit, then ship back the DTK (so you don't have to spend time without an Apple Silicon machine on hand, with revocation of the credit if the DTK doesn't get there in a few weeks) does seem less friendly than it should be, though.
That is actually not the case. The DTK agreement specifically states that the term automatically expires 1 year from receipt of the DTK, unless either party decides to terminate the agreement early:
The email that went out to developers this week would constitute termination of this addendum.
They paid $500 to get early access to hardware, they have an offer of $200 off of retail hardware should they send the kit back early. The kit was never owned by the develpoer, Apple don’t need to offer them anything on return of the kit, the developer benefitted from early hardware access so they could release their apps and earn money. If you were a developer who had the dev kit you could get your app ready for launch day of the M1 macs and cash in. Effectively the $500 was a marketing expense. The devs that are whinging about it likely expected a free Mac, sucks to be them.
Apple apparently also "bricked" the unit by turning power off to the USB-A ports with the Big Sur 11.3 beta.
Ahead of the release of the M1 Macs, Apple provided developers with a Developer Transition Kit that included a Mac mini equipped with an A12Z Bionic chip first used in the iPad Pro, 16GB RAM, a 512GB SSD, two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, and an HDMI 2.0 port.
These DTKs were offered up on a temporary basis to developers who paid $500 for access, and were aimed at giving developers a way to create Universal apps to prepare for the transition from Intel processors to Apple silicon chips.
Apple is now asking developers to return their Developer Transition Kits in exchange for a one-time use code that will provide a $200 discount on an M1 Mac.
Apple first sent out Developer Transition Kits at the end of June, so developers have had them on hand for the last seven months. Developers were meant to have a year with the DTK for app development purposes, but other benefits that include a private discussion forum and technical support will continue to be available for the full 12 month period.
Some developers are unhappy with Apple's compensation given the initial $500 price of the DTK program and the bugs that were experienced that made using the DTK difficult. The last time Apple had a similar program for the transition from PowerPC to Intel chips, Apple provided developers with the first Intel-based Mac for free.
The $200 credit can be used for any Mac, and the $699 Mac mini would be the cheapest option available to developers who want to pick up a new M1 Mac for continued development. The credit must be used by the end of May.
Article Link: Apple Asks Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis in Exchange for $200 Credit Toward M1 Mac
So if you take the $200, the DTK ended up costing $399.
It is what it is.
No, the complaint for me is why was the price of the Universal App Quickstart Program lowered to $500 if developers need to pay the same $1,000 total to get the same outcome as the previous transition program?
And as a newly independent developer the time limit on the coupon is a slap in the face. Instead of managing expectations I'm being given a $200 coupon I probably won't be able to use.
I either need to scramble to get together another $500 or I give up the $200 entirely.
Sure, my question though is why didn't they just leave the price the same and include permanent hardware at the end of the program? The transition program price was lowered to $500, but developers need to pay the same $1,000 total to get the same outcome as the previous transition program.
On the other hand though...
Apple Revenue 2005 = $13.9 billion
Apple Revenue 2020 = $274.5 billion
The license agreement specifically said the hardware may not work and won't come with warranty. You're essentially buying something from Ebay that is listed as "sold as is, buy at your own risk".
Complaints are a classic case of a buyer not doing their due diligence before purchasing the offering.
I have one. There are problems. But I understood from the agreement that it came with no warranty and there was no guarantee it would work as to how I expected to. Other developers should at least skim the agreement before signing anything.
You still have a year. Current email does not suggest any differently. If you bought it in November, you still have until November 2021 to return (technically December 2021 to return). Upcoming email could change things but for now, the 1 year remains intact.
Apple didn't have to offer a coupon, but you're throwing a fit about it. Sounds like Apple should have offered nothing next time.
If that $300 feels like a donation, you always had the option to not donate. It's very simple, yet people still complain.
It's amazing how some people feel entitled to free stuff simply because Apple is worth $2T.
If the agreement says it can be terminated earlier, then what I said still applies "you're free to keep the DTK until what it says on your agreement" because...that's what it says on your agreement.
What did I say that is "not the case"?
I don't understand why people are upset about this??? You paid for early access to a new platform. You got it. You never purchased a product. It's not like the fact that these need to be returned is a surprise? That was part of the deal! You never bought one! What is the shock here!
Previous transition program is completely different. It's a completely different device (not to mention the sheer size requiring more materials to build). And Apple paid Intel royalties. I don't see how that's a valid complaint.
Then don't use the coupon. Apple never promised a coupon.
I don't know what you mean to get another $500.
If you're a new independent developer relying solely on this machine to develop apps, you've made a big mistake. You'd have far better reach in developing apps on the intel platform which you could have used an Intel Mac mini instead to do.