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Apple Asks Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis in Exchange for $200 Credit Toward M1 Mac
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In addition to not mentioning whether or not you get free production hardware at the end, Apple also didn't say anything about possibly getting a free pony #ponygate.
Random tidbit - the hypervisor and paravirtualization support appears to be both in M1 and A14 chips - but the bootloader disables it for A14.
Think they'll notice if I put the guts from a 2012 Mac mini in it? HA!
It's a bad deal simply because Tim Cook is first and foremost ALWAYS a BEAN COUNTER. He has no clue how unfair this is to developers. His ignorance so far has not cost him due to iPhone successes, but if alive, Steve Jobs would have to hate that the Macintosh is in decline in market share still. He would probably think he made a mistake on the Mac side with choosing Tim Cook, while not the iPhone as Timmy is better at managing toys than actual real computers.
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Wow, I didn’t even read past page 2. W-T-F is wrong with people???? We devs paid $500 for way early access to the new platform, or something real close to the M1 via the A12Z chip in the DTK Mac Mini. Send it back and get $200 off an M1 Mac, which can be combined with other discounts or business pricing if you get it.
We ran into an issue with our DTK in terms of it not being able to do something hardware specific. Not to mention just how generally buggy it was. Honestly, the DTK was a complete misfire. Our big issue cropped up shortly before the M1 reveal and we thought we were getting the run-around from dev support people. Then they had me send the DTK back and they let me buy a new M1 MBP - 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, and sent it straight out like many of the reviewers were getting in advance. I couldn’t talk until the embargo lifted after the reveal, but that was super awesome of them. I bought it, it was mine, didn’t have to send it back. Didn’t get a discount, but I got to pretend that I was one of their teir-1 developers or favorite internet bloggers for a few days. LOL...
I’m a small guy developing corporate apps as just part of my overall consulting services. Apple has never failed to take care of me via the developer program. Even if they’re occasionally a bit slow on response, they still come through.
People who are upset about this DTK $200 coupon on return thing are either not really developers or didn’t really have a need for the DTK beyond just wanting to play with it. We had a specific use for it, but ultimately I think those of us who received and used the DTK with native version of Xcode did far more for Apple as we were the beta testers. I’m not sure what people are expecting here? To get the full $500 back? To keep an oddball partially capable system indefinitely that Apple probably doesn’t want floating around the open market? The $500 fee was the cost of renting the system through the contracted date in your developer agreement. That’s all it ever was. $200 is a nice gesture. I’d take that over the $149 chincy web cam that Steve Jobs gave away that one time, an M1 Mac is something every developer needs at this point. Of course, most active devs have already bought one so I think the only real thing Apple should have done differently was offer the coupon earlier. By that logic, one could argue that maybe Apple should also present it as a rebate for devs who have already bought an M1 Mac. But I think that doesn’t solve anything — this is an incentive to get the laggy devs to return their DTKs.
We ran into an issue with our DTK in terms of it not being able to do something hardware specific. Not to mention just how generally buggy it was. Honestly, the DTK was a complete misfire. Our big issue cropped up shortly before the M1 reveal and we thought we were getting the run-around from dev support people. Then they had me send the DTK back and they let me buy a new M1 MBP - 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, and sent it straight out like many of the reviewers were getting in advance. I couldn’t talk until the embargo lifted after the reveal, but that was super awesome of them. I bought it, it was mine, didn’t have to send it back. Didn’t get a discount, but I got to pretend that I was one of their teir-1 developers or favorite internet bloggers for a few days. LOL...
I’m a small guy developing corporate apps as just part of my overall consulting services. Apple has never failed to take care of me via the developer program. Even if they’re occasionally a bit slow on response, they still come through.
People who are upset about this DTK $200 coupon on return thing are either not really developers or didn’t really have a need for the DTK beyond just wanting to play with it. We had a specific use for it, but ultimately I think those of us who received and used the DTK with native version of Xcode did far more for Apple as we were the beta testers. I’m not sure what people are expecting here? To get the full $500 back? To keep an oddball partially capable system indefinitely that Apple probably doesn’t want floating around the open market? The $500 fee was the cost of renting the system through the contracted date in your developer agreement. That’s all it ever was. $200 is a nice gesture. I’d take that over the $149 chincy web cam that Steve Jobs gave away that one time, an M1 Mac is something every developer needs at this point. Of course, most active devs have already bought one so I think the only real thing Apple should have done differently was offer the coupon earlier. By that logic, one could argue that maybe Apple should also present it as a rebate for devs who have already bought an M1 Mac. But I think that doesn’t solve anything — this is an incentive to get the laggy devs to return their DTKs.
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As others have pointed out, developers don’t have to send the DTK back until the end of their rental term. Apple would like to start collecting them early if they can. That’s why they’re offering the $200 coupon as an incentive. In reality, there’s no good reason for a developer to keep using the DTK at this point. The DTK systems are A12 and not true M1 based. They’re still quirky and buggy and not worthwhile for any serious testing. Nothing has changed in anyone’s rental agreements. No one is getting screwed here. If you rented a DTK, your contract still stands the same as the day you signed it. Send it back early and get a perk.
So these seem to be indisputable facts:
1. Apple gets a 30% cut of all iOS sales and any MacOS App Store sales
2. Apple benefits greatly from having a large suite of applications that run well on the new hardware platform
3. Apple provided a loaner machine to developers so they could populate the MacOS App Store with compatible software
4. The loaner machine was provided for a 12-month lease of US $500
5. The loaner machine didn't work correctly 4 months into the lease period
6. Developers are being offered a $200 gift voucher for early return
Reviewing all those facts, I would submit that Apple is damaging its own business and its professional reputation by treating its developers so poorly.
(If you want to dispute point two, let's hear it because I can guarantee in advance your argument is going to be hilarious.)
1. Apple gets a 30% cut of all iOS sales and any MacOS App Store sales
2. Apple benefits greatly from having a large suite of applications that run well on the new hardware platform
3. Apple provided a loaner machine to developers so they could populate the MacOS App Store with compatible software
4. The loaner machine was provided for a 12-month lease of US $500
5. The loaner machine didn't work correctly 4 months into the lease period
6. Developers are being offered a $200 gift voucher for early return
Reviewing all those facts, I would submit that Apple is damaging its own business and its professional reputation by treating its developers so poorly.
(If you want to dispute point two, let's hear it because I can guarantee in advance your argument is going to be hilarious.)
The outrage over this is hilarious to me. I get that it does suck that some of the dev units seemingly have issues, and apple should replace 'em at least until the duration of the lease is over. That said, whining about getting a $200 credit towards new final spec hardware is a special kind of childish. You paid $500 to lease the system for early dev purposes, apple gets it back. Those are the terms, and they shouldn't have signed up for it if they were just going to complain.
I mean, don't expect a car dealership to give me a free car when i turn in my car at the end of the contract.
It's A12Z, rather than an A14. But still, your point stands.
I mean, don't expect a car dealership to give me a free car when i turn in my car at the end of the contract.
It's A12Z, rather than an A14. But still, your point stands.
As I recall the agreement stated we could keep it up to a year but had to return it when Apple said so.
Let’s just say the support from Apple was non-existent and the mini has a bug making it unusable from December for some devs. It’s not how I imagined the program would turn out.
This is weird to me. What I don't get, is why this was like a timed release of info at all. Why wasn't this info part of the agreement from the start? Why was this made a surprise and why were developers at their mercy? Also, you can't complain that much as a dev, I think, as you shouldn't have expected anything like this at all, given that this was only just announced: you should have considered this the cost of doing business and written that $500 as a lost business expense, not have pined for a magnanimous apple to award you with a mac mini
I'd add that calling it "outrage" is deeply hyperbolic because nothing I've seen rises above the level of eye-rolling and mutters of "bloody Apple". Most software professionals are well past the point where continuing high-handed behaviour from Apple moves the needle.
Coincidentally in one of the emails released by the antitrust subcommittee and contrary to what Macrumors forum posters think, Steve Jobs suggests exactly that about a particularly whiny developer:
I hope you're right, but I doubt it. The wording in their message implies otherwise:
"you’ll have continued access to other program benefits"
'Other' meaning NOT the DTK.
Also, the M1 only promo code expiration of May 31 2021 is a "squeeze play" because Apple will probably announce new hardware in the WWDCish timeframe. So you're forced to "use it or lose it" on an M1 before seeing their next Apple Silicon (AS) Macs. What makes this more egregious is WWDC is (was) supposed to be about developers, so any new hardware announced in that time frame would be of interest to developers.
A $500 September DTK buy was probabally worth it, especially because it could "buy time" in seeing how good or bad the transition would be going by 10/21. Spending $500 was worth NOT spending more on whatever the first AS might have been, especially if they were not the right choice for YOUR business.
This just demonstrates how far Apple's attitude toward developers has fallen. It's like they need to manipulate developers into behaving in a certain "boot licking" sycophantic way.
I'm not surprised this is ending badly. But that's just fine with me. The more Apple pisses off developers, the more developers will just walk away.
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People are weird... Apple says you have to "buy in" ($500), for the DTK (early adopter developer). The agreement is, you have to return it and you get nothing at the end of the term (the $500 cost (entrance fee) was the "privilage" of being an early adopter developer). Now, they're saying, if you return it EARLY, you can get $200 to apply towards an M1 Mac. What's the problem? You can get $200 to apply towards a 1st Gen M1 Mac or you can get nothing, just as originally agreed. You still have to return the DTK. So, at worst, you're getting NOTHING either way (if you return early and don't use the $200 credit) or... you're getting $200 to apply towards a 1st Gen M1 Mac, if you do return it early and buy one.
If I were a developer, I'd probably go for it. If I could afford to spend $500 for a DTK, I could afford to spend a few hundred more for an M1 Mac Mini (or more for an Air/Pro). But I'm not, so...
Apple is in the business of making money... developer or end-user. We are their dollar signs. Little more. We play in THEIR playground. Don't fool yourself otherwise. We pay the entrance fee to do so (Apple ecosystem and all that). Developers make them money. End users make them money. If they can encourage a developer to help them make MORE money... why not? "What the market will bear", as they say.
I'm actually grateful I get the opportunity to be enthusiastic about being a Mac user again. The "Intel years" were horrible for me... blasted PC's pretending to be Macs and all that. I was "meh"ing the entire time. Never bought an Intel Mac for myself. As soon as I heard the "Apple Silicon Macs" were really happening, I started getting excited again... it's like the PowerPC days all over again! And I started out with a Power Macintosh 6100/60. Been a Mac enthusiast up until the end of the G5. Started hating on Apple when Jobs announced the Intel switch.
But now we're back... with REAL Macs again! And I'm enjoying my M1 Mac Mini! 🥳
If I were a developer, I'd probably go for it. If I could afford to spend $500 for a DTK, I could afford to spend a few hundred more for an M1 Mac Mini (or more for an Air/Pro). But I'm not, so...
Apple is in the business of making money... developer or end-user. We are their dollar signs. Little more. We play in THEIR playground. Don't fool yourself otherwise. We pay the entrance fee to do so (Apple ecosystem and all that). Developers make them money. End users make them money. If they can encourage a developer to help them make MORE money... why not? "What the market will bear", as they say.
I'm actually grateful I get the opportunity to be enthusiastic about being a Mac user again. The "Intel years" were horrible for me... blasted PC's pretending to be Macs and all that. I was "meh"ing the entire time. Never bought an Intel Mac for myself. As soon as I heard the "Apple Silicon Macs" were really happening, I started getting excited again... it's like the PowerPC days all over again! And I started out with a Power Macintosh 6100/60. Been a Mac enthusiast up until the end of the G5. Started hating on Apple when Jobs announced the Intel switch.
But now we're back... with REAL Macs again! And I'm enjoying my M1 Mac Mini! 🥳
Plot twist : Dodgy developer return them empty Mac Mini enclosure instead. That case can easily obtained from Taobao, they account will terminated instantly too
You’re in some kind of weird denial. It’s pretty clear Apple just announced the end of the program. Nothing optional about it. Next email will be instructions to send it back and if you don’t, the next email will be from their lawyers for breach of contract.
Questions:
1. What are you able to accomplish on your M1 MBP that was impossible on a DTK?
2. How do you arrive at the conclusion EVERY developer needs an M1 Mac now?
oh and..
3. How come you didn't get a business discount on the M1 MBP you bought? Don't 'real' developers get business discounts????
that being said, without the developers its just a box. They should give full credit towards a new M1 or M1x.
I'm just new learning iOS development so I see what is waiting for me 😅
I just want to say I'm loving Steve Jobs more for recognizing the value of the developers and giving a brand new computer for the transition.
BUT when whoever rented the DTK (did the contract say they would get the money back or a new machine?) I don't think so either hehe
The point is, Tim Cook was $200 dollars grateful and whoever rented those DTK were supposed to be also an investment into their own business to be able to have and sell their product from day one and be ahead of the game. At the same time Apple profit having apps ready to be used.
In conclusion, renting was a choice and DON'T hope for the same money (or any) in return or even a Mac for more than the value you rented the equipment.
If someone who rented he DTK did not use that as their advantage to develop great apps and earn TONS 😅 of money, well, evaluate your investment next time.
Corporations love money and unless you are working at Apple's headquarter don't hope for Xmas gifts at this time of the year.
I just want to say I'm loving Steve Jobs more for recognizing the value of the developers and giving a brand new computer for the transition.
BUT when whoever rented the DTK (did the contract say they would get the money back or a new machine?)
I don't think so either heheThe point is, Tim Cook was $200 dollars grateful and whoever rented those DTK were supposed to be also an investment into their own business to be able to have and sell their product from day one and be ahead of the game. At the same time Apple profit having apps ready to be used.
In conclusion, renting was a choice and DON'T hope for the same money (or any) in return or even a Mac for more than the value you rented the equipment.
If someone who rented he DTK did not use that as their advantage to develop great apps and earn TONS 😅 of money, well, evaluate your investment next time.
Corporations love money and unless you are working at Apple's headquarter don't hope for Xmas gifts at this time of the year.
I was around for the Intel transition, paid the $999 for the DTK machine then, and was happily surprised when Apple offered me an iMac when I returned the DTK machine.
When I signed the DTK agreement this time, I did wonder whether they'd give us some credit when we returned 'em, but didn't have any specific expectations. I considered the $500 the cost of doing business - I had to support my products on Apple Silicon, and this was the only means I had to do so.
What gets me about the email I got from Apple today is this: We signed an agreement to rent these machines for a year for $500. I want it for a full year, because Apple hasn't released an M1 Mac that I want to buy yet (waiting for a 16", 32GB MacBook Pro, thank you). One year means the end of June / beginning of July. Giving me a $200 "bonus" that I have to use by the end of May is really just pro-rating the rent on the machine to account for making me return it early. They're not really giving me anything at all. What I resent is being forced to return the DTK machine early and buy an M1 machine that's below the standards of a Mac I'd otherwise buy.
When I signed the DTK agreement this time, I did wonder whether they'd give us some credit when we returned 'em, but didn't have any specific expectations. I considered the $500 the cost of doing business - I had to support my products on Apple Silicon, and this was the only means I had to do so.
What gets me about the email I got from Apple today is this: We signed an agreement to rent these machines for a year for $500. I want it for a full year, because Apple hasn't released an M1 Mac that I want to buy yet (waiting for a 16", 32GB MacBook Pro, thank you). One year means the end of June / beginning of July. Giving me a $200 "bonus" that I have to use by the end of May is really just pro-rating the rent on the machine to account for making me return it early. They're not really giving me anything at all. What I resent is being forced to return the DTK machine early and buy an M1 machine that's below the standards of a Mac I'd otherwise buy.
