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Apple Awarded iPhone and Multi-Touch Patent
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You inspired me to go searching.
It looks like Palm's first contribution to handheld computing was software for the Zoomer, a product released in 1992.
Some info here.
thanks for looking that up, saved me the 2 mins to shut down that argument....
without IP there would be no progress in technology, deal with it palm, you want to pay off John Rubenstein to do Appleish work, then you have a prEblem
unleash the houuuuuuuuuuuunds!!!
The Newton apparently had support for Palm's Graffiti input system (so I read, this was before my time). Perhaps you're thinking of this?
TO inject a little perspective into this Apple Fanboy lawsuit blood-lust thread...
This is less of a matter of that they have a patent, but whether or not it's valid or applicable and/or whether it will hold up in court.
Now will their patent protect their specific MT commands on the iPhone? Sure. Probably. Maybe.
But the entire multitouch concept? Don't count on it.
When it comes to it as a patent of the multitouch concept in general, I don't see it holding up in court. Why? Because (while I can't immediately cite the specifics) I do know there was a ruling a handful of years back which basically said you can't patent an obvious technological step since (besides stifling innovation) the concept would have come about one way or another naturally (so can't be claimed as intellectual property).
(Maybe it's wasn't an article online but the handful of prelaw classes I took years back.) Either way, Touch screen interface concept has been in the public domain for decades now, and progressing from one finger to many fingers is the next obvious step in the advancement of that technology.
And besides, MT wasn't even first conceived of by Apple anyways. It was Bell Labs, DECADES ago. Sometime in the early 80's.
So while IANAL, IMO HP, MS, IBM etc (maybe even palm) shouldn't really have anything to worry about this and should each still be able to continue to do their own parts to add to the fast-paced innovation multitouch tech is enjoying today.
Thank you for the post, a much needed jolt of sanity and logic into the thread. I was going to say, isn't getting a patent on a touchscreen phone like Reebok trying to patent jumping when it came out with "the pump".
2012 prepare.
Copy/paste is actually a tough interaction to implement THE RIGHT WAY with a phone that is finger-touch based rather than stylus-touch based.
With a stylus-oriented device, it is easy to implement a copy/paste because a stylus affords you the ability to press down on text and to still see what you are copying and where you are pasting. The selection instrument (the stylus) does not get in the way.
However, with a finger-oriented device, your finger gets in the way of viewing what you are trying to copy and where you want to paste. Note that Apple has solved the text insertion problem by bringing up a magnifying glass whenever you touch inside a text field. Likewise, with the virtual keyboard, they display a large key above the key you pressed so you can see what you are typing. But implementing copy/paste is a bit more complex.
Being able to support copying any arbitrary text selection within any arbitrary formatted text with your finger would require some kind of magnification technique. And you'd have to support scrolling within this magnification area. That's not to say that it can't be done, but my guess is that Apple simply wasn't happy with the implementations that they have tried so far. I'm hoping that they are eventually able to crack this nut.
John Scully was the first to coin the term "Personal Digital Assistant or PDA."
The Apple Newton was introduced in 1993 and was produced until 1997.
The Palm Pilot was introduced in March, 1997. At the time Palm was a subsidiary of USRobotics.
What I haven't found is any link between the Newton OS and Palm.
I'm enjoying that the most knowledgeable responses in this thread, those by kdarling, have gone largely ignored, while everyone is busy flinging sh*t and gleeful at the thought of lawsuits. I know this is the internet, but come on.
A couple days ago everyone was losing their mind that Apple agreed to pay out $25 million dollars for a poorly fabricated iPod. Most everyone was disgusted that anyone would take advantage of the offer, saying that the legal system was totally screwed up. Now we're popping champagne over Apple suing people out of the touchscreen phone business (which according to kdarling is quite the overreaction).
I've used Macs for my entire life and I've always enjoyed the Mac community, but the rabid defense of Apple has made me less and less interested in reading this message board.
Wasn't there some experiment where they put a bunch of people with really radical opinions in the same room and as a result of radicalism being the status quo, some people's opinions became even more radical? Someone point me in the right direction with this. It's really the feeling I get when reading this board anymore. Ten years ago Apple users seemed to be the happy go lucky people who truly enjoyed getting someone to switch, but now that all the bandwagon Apple users are aboard we've become even more rabidly pro Apple to the point where it's not odd to see someone get flamed over wanting something as simple as copy-paste on the iPhone or some random frustration they have with an Apple program.
I'd love it if everyone could discuss things in a decent manner, which is why I enjoyed this board years ago when I joined, but I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears to the people frothing at the mouth to tell me how wrong I am.
Make sure all frothing replies have plenty of outrage covered up with witty sarcasm and the "roll eyes" smiley attached.
A couple days ago everyone was losing their mind that Apple agreed to pay out $25 million dollars for a poorly fabricated iPod. Most everyone was disgusted that anyone would take advantage of the offer, saying that the legal system was totally screwed up. Now we're popping champagne over Apple suing people out of the touchscreen phone business (which according to kdarling is quite the overreaction).
I've used Macs for my entire life and I've always enjoyed the Mac community, but the rabid defense of Apple has made me less and less interested in reading this message board.
Wasn't there some experiment where they put a bunch of people with really radical opinions in the same room and as a result of radicalism being the status quo, some people's opinions became even more radical? Someone point me in the right direction with this. It's really the feeling I get when reading this board anymore. Ten years ago Apple users seemed to be the happy go lucky people who truly enjoyed getting someone to switch, but now that all the bandwagon Apple users are aboard we've become even more rabidly pro Apple to the point where it's not odd to see someone get flamed over wanting something as simple as copy-paste on the iPhone or some random frustration they have with an Apple program.
I'd love it if everyone could discuss things in a decent manner, which is why I enjoyed this board years ago when I joined, but I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears to the people frothing at the mouth to tell me how wrong I am.
Make sure all frothing replies have plenty of outrage covered up with witty sarcasm and the "roll eyes" smiley attached.
Palm tried to improve upon the original Apple Newton handwriting recognition by creating Graffiti, which they then licensed to Apple for inclusion in the second version of the Newton (if memory serves).
Only an idiot would pay for MMS when you can email from your phone at no additional cost. You can email to mobile numbers, and MMS can be sent to email. For example, you can send Verizon customers MMS by sending email to their 10 digit phone number @vzwpix.com. That same Verizon customer can send pictures and videos back to that same email address. Of course, that Verizon customer would be paying both ways for those messages, wouldn't they?
Also, with all things considerd, the iPhone has been the most advanced phone there is. The 15,000+ app App Store is only a bonus.
Amen bro. This thread reads like a bunch of coyotes salivating over an imagined carcass. If just 10% of the general public perceive Apple users to be like the zealous fanboys here, I'm going to have to start covering the Apple logo on my MBP with a sticker.
I think you care too much what people think about you based on a product....
well damn considering how much a fanboy's identity and well being is wrapped up in Apple...potkettlekettlepot
Whatever, people. I just want to know how to get my iPhone icons to look like the ones in the patent diagram!
You're completely overreaching with this one. Do you honestly think that people here cannot live without apple in their lives?
Indeed! Good point and very succinctly put.
In addition to my post(rant?) Linux/Unix/Windows shouldn't have to worry about the multitouch patent since they don't manufacturer the hardware that their OS's run on (which is what the patent specifically applies to).
I doubt even the hardware manufacturers would be at ends with this either since without the OS, their hardware is worthless.
Additionally, Apple doesn't even make the majority of their hardware either. They mostly just outsource their specs for thirdparty manufacturers then offshore the assembly and slap in their own OS.
So if their patents are going to apply to anyone, it'll be those manufacturing devices AND operating systems (with identical, or very similar, interfaces as Apple's). Meaning Asian knock-offs, or cellphones/devices where the os & hardware are from the same manufacturer (maybe palm, maybe lg, maybe nokia etc....iff their multitouch implementation is too similar to apple's)
TO inject a little perspective into this Apple Fanboy lawsuit blood-lust thread...
This is less of a matter of that they have a patent, but whether or not it's valid or applicable and/or whether it will hold up in court.
Now will their patent protect their specific MT commands on the iPhone? Sure. Probably. Maybe.
But the entire multitouch concept? Don't count on it.
When it comes to it as a patent of the multitouch concept in general, I don't see it holding up in court. Why? Because (while I can't immediately cite the specifics) I do know there was a ruling a handful of years back which basically said you can't patent an obvious technological step since (besides stifling innovation) the concept would have come about one way or another naturally (so can't be claimed as intellectual property).
(Maybe it's wasn't an article online but the handful of prelaw classes I took years back.) Either way, Touch screen interface concept has been in the public domain for decades now, and progressing from one finger to many fingers is the next obvious step in the advancement of that technology.
And besides, MT wasn't even first conceived of by Apple anyways. It was Bell Labs, DECADES ago. Sometime in the early 80's.
So while IANAL, IMO HP, MS, IBM etc (maybe even palm) shouldn't really have anything to worry about this and should each still be able to continue to do their own parts to add to the fast-paced innovation multitouch tech is enjoying today.
1- they are not patenting MT technology altogether, and by calling them just "specific" you are not looking at it right. It takes a lot of time and $ to invent these "specific" things
2-The fact that Apple makes it look like logical step just goes to show you how good Apple is in inventing stuff, youd think its the next best thing because it feels so natural... well if you would have left it up to Palm to invent what would have come out... what would reality be now? a multi tip stylus?? L O L
3- who are you to know what the obvious step is in a technology? if you know what is next then dude, start patenting stuff!
4-dont mix Touchscreen with Mutitouch, the fact that they have the word touch in them doesnt mean they are the same...
to me its like I'm playing Castlevania 1 for NES.... I get to the last level all by myself, with all the extras, and I get the code to have everything the next time I play... then you start playing with MY code?? and with all my stuff!!! HELL NO!!! its like stealing... you get punished for it... or you pay...
Ohhhh am I realllllllly? Hmm...I think if you surveyed all the fanboys here they would admit to being like a short-circuited robot without their Apple products...
And props to vicmacs for the castlevania shout out!!!
yeah windows tends to do that to robots... thankfully there is Linux in case of emergency...
ahahhah big_dainjerus got-to-love NES
Well thats actually easy. Just start a negative thread towards any Apple product and watch them come out of their cyber basements like maggots on meat.