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"Can't innovate.....my ass." ??

Really? This is what we're considering innovation now? A trash can design? What innovating idea does this machine do that any windows server can't do?

I love my apple products but I thank god daily that I am not an apple fanboy!!
 
"Can't innovate.....my ass." ??

Really? This is what we're considering innovation now? A trash can design? What innovating idea does this machine do that any windows server can't do?

I love my apple products but I thank god daily that I am not an apple fanboy!!

Well, it actually fits inside a trash can ;-)

It's at least a lot more innovation than we've seen from any PC maker in the last 10 years, this is taking computing in a new direction, for god or bad ( that remains to be seen)
 
I don't care what the price will be !

I have been waiting for so long that i don't care what it costs. :p
 
what fall? give us a date. i'm really excited for this one, i dont wanna miss this. i'm sure this mac pro will be the best selling mac pro ever.
 
The issue many justly comment is that 90% of our parts are inside the Mac Pro chassis. My Blu-Ray burner, 256GB SSD, 4 x 2TB SATA II HDD's, PCIe USB 3.0 and external SATA and ATI 5780 HD are all enclosed (and swappable for upgrades, imagine that). Many will be forced to purchase Thunderbolt chassises to accommodate our systems, and last I checked they aren't cheap.

Well, there's no right or wrong when it comes to preferences; you prefer one or you prefer the other. I suppose there are some folks who will need to use external chassis but I can't believe it will be a large number. I wish I was doing the kind of work that would require it! I'd be in a different tax bracket most likely!
 
Yes, Xeon and FirePro do mean higher starting costs.

XEON E5 Family

The Xeon also is a choice of very few options in this new Xeon list by Intel.

We know its E5 based from Apple and configurations up to 12 cores. Either a 6 core or 12 core option. There are no longer dual sockets. It's a single socket board.

Now with an agreement to purchase say 100k of these Apple can move the price point down, but nowhere near the levels you hope like they could with the iMac.

Why do you think Apple would scrap dual processor options and then only use CPUs that have huge price premiums because they intended for DP systems? What kind of logic is that? The uni-processor Mac Pros obviously outsell DP ones, very few users buy high-end Mac Pros as evidenced by the average unit price of $1,300 for Apple's desktop sales. This is all happening because high-end units don't shift, the 12-core option is a compromise. Why would they not use a $300 3.7GHz 4-core CPU and $550 3.4Ghz 6-core CPU when these are obviously the most popular choices (or those they replace) in their existing line?

Are you suggesting they would use these?:
Xeon E5-2630L V2 6 Core 2.4Ghz is $701.01
Xeon E5-2650 V2 8 core 2.6Ghz is $1335.85
Xeon E5-2643 V2 6 core 3.5Ghz Pricing is N/A

Why would Apple use a $600 2.4GHz 6-core CPU when they can use a $550 3.4Ghz CPU? Why would they pay more for the E5-2643 V2, at least $300 probably more. Why would anyone want that?

FIREPRO

Dual GPU standard.

The 4096 Shaders mentioned in the Keynote, while mentioning each GPGPU can hold up to 6GB GDDR5 means up to 12GB GDDR5 solution.

More to the point, the FirePro dual set up is a unique design to Apple.

They are GCN 2.0 based cards either using the upcoming 20nm/14nm FinFET or the last run of the 28nm line. Their PCI-E 3.0 interfaces are unique to Apple's model. They aren't going to be built for any other brand or OEM.

Apple can reduce the cost by investing into the co-development of the new designs to meet their new Core design and most certainly they have done so.

Yet, either way you shake it, this WORKSTATION isn't starting at $1999.

They emphatically stated up to 12-core, dual FirePros producing 4096 shader cores.

The FirePro W10000 provides 4096 shader streaming cores at 6GB GDDR5

The FirePro W9000 provides 2048 shader streaming cores at 6GB GDDR5

It is a reasonable assumption that this new design is a dual W9000 level GPGPU design for up to 12GB GDDR5.

This system will be unique to Apple and that adds in cost. Apple can absorb some of that cost by sharing the development [and has done so], but not to levels where you think you're getting the baseline at $1999 or even $2999.

No, being unique to Apple drives down the costs. Whether Apple pass those on or not remaisn to be seen. They currently sell a sub $1,500 workstation for $2,500 and the line died. It was much more popular in 2006-2007 when they sold a $2,500 workstation, that cost $3,000 from other vendors, for $2,500. That relied on big discounts from Intel though, but perhaps the AMD deal lets them do something similar again.

You clearly state this is up to 12 cores and 4096 shader cores, why on earth do you think that means they won't start at the low end? Why use the words up to. Not saying they will, but why would you think they won't when high-end systems don't sell anywhere near as lower end ones? Not in Apple's lines, not in the PC industry, not in the workstation market. Making this even more niche than the old ones would be so ridiculous I don't understand why people think Apple would even consider it.

This is all about cutting costs and increasing growth.
 
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are there any rumors about when the pre orders will start, i'm really eager for this device, i've waited 3 years for this upgrade
 
After thinking about it, Microsoft has "lost" the PC Desktop war "mindshare" and they don't even know it yet. Consider user "pain" going from Windows XP to Windows 8 vs Apple Mountain Lion.

It's not for everybody, but if even 10% of current "old windows version" users jump ship, Apple just doubled its installed base. Of Apple is going "all in" on this new unit they need a shameless market grab and there was never a time to do it. The halo around iPhones and iPads is peaking. Microsoft shot itself in the foot with Win8. The new Mac Pro may even be ASSEMED IN THE USA as the biggest marketing gimmick.

But to be successful (and Tim Cook personally promised Congress Apple would try) Ape is going to have to move these units. Maybe we will see AGRESSIVE pricing and Marketing to move these.they are designed to have very low "appliance-like" support so they should be easily fixable at an Apple Store.
 
movie theaters?

if this thing is going to be monstrously expensive why would they market it to the masses like that?

I'm not saying that the high end won't be outside the realm of a car, but I do believe Apple will have an entry model within reasonable reach.

Pick the right theaters and it is a much more targeted bang for your buck than other mass media. Movie theater ads are very targeted and incredibly cheap.
 
The issue many justly comment is that 90% of our parts are inside the Mac Pro chassis. My Blu-Ray burner, 256GB SSD, 4 x 2TB SATA II HDD's, PCIe USB 3.0 and external SATA and ATI 5780 HD are all enclosed (and swappable for upgrades, imagine that). Many will be forced to purchase Thunderbolt chassises to accommodate our systems, and last I checked they aren't cheap.

My 12-Core system only has 2 27" LED Cinema Displays, an EyeTV USB tuner, and Tivoli speakers. My printer is wireless, only the occasional need for an external HDD, otherwise, everything is housed inside a well made and easy to access system. Instead, we have a device with no internal SATA expansion, built in graphics, and a reliance on a plethora of external devices (and if you work as a photographer, film editor, designer, you will have external on-the-go drives, but not all of them).


Your list was silly half the items will still be inside the new mac pro (SSD, Graphics Card, and USB 3). We actually have no idea if the graphics card in the new pro will be upgradeable or not. So yeah, you will have to buy an external array for your storage, there is one cable (2 if you don't buy one with a built in blue-ray burner. The combined space is still far less than the current mac pro.
 
I can answer this one... Windows Server can support 64GB and 128GB of RAM properly while OSX 10.8 can't. Hell 64-bit versions of Windows XP Pro (released in 2005) can run 128GB of RAM on a 2009-2010 Mac Pro. Welcome to 8 years ago.

Sources: [1], [2], [3]



Personally, I prefer sticking to standards because it opens to the door to easy repairs and upgrades. The old Mac Pro, for the most part, could be tinkered with. The buy-everything-up-front-or-live-with-it-and-then-toss-it-in-the-trash-so-you-can-buy-another-product mentality may be fine for consumer gear (even then I have philosophical issues with it) but it shouldn't be entering prosumer/pro gear.

Tinkering at the PRO level has been dead for years. REAL Enterprise customers pay to lease stuff for 3-5 years and ideally never crack a screwdriver... Because THAT wastes the bosses money. Intel has carefully crafted its partnerships and price points for XEON level parts to exclude even the "used" market. Unless you buy the "ameture" parts from Newegg vendor lockin from IBM, HP, DELL is at an all-time high. They all source custom shaped "common" parts from each RAID and Nic vendor so third parts don't fit in anybody else's hardware... Without using the custom parts, you don't get full "lights out" management and power savings.

My rack of IBM blade servers is MORE GLUED SHUT than even my iPhone in terms of getting parts. Apple is going to do just fine with their "glued shut"model as it means units will be easy to replace and compatibility of external parts easier to verify.
 
I can answer this one... Windows Server can support 64GB and 128GB of RAM properly while OSX 10.8 can't. Hell 64-bit versions of Windows XP Pro (released in 2005) can run 128GB of RAM on a 2009-2010 Mac Pro. Welcome to 8 years ago.

Sources: [1], [2], [3]



Personally, I prefer sticking to standards because it opens to the door to easy repairs and upgrades. The old Mac Pro, for the most part, could be tinkered with. The buy-everything-up-front-or-live-with-it-and-then-toss-it-in-the-trash-so-you-can-buy-another-product mentality may be fine for consumer gear (even then I have philosophical issues with it) but it shouldn't be entering prosumer/pro gear.

Why is there this ongoing conversation between people that have obviously never purchased any type of computer in a professional capacity. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Quit stating things like "fine for consumer gear but it shouldn't be entering prosumer/pro gear" when really quite the opposite is actually true and has been for decades.
 
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Mac pro is going to do good.

If it has a lower price point that'd help get it out there even more, but I think it will do great either way.
 
It's fine and all. I'm glad they're not afraid to take some chances, even if it is only in a tiny niche market. The more disturbing thing is that they apparently think this is really innovative...a new case. Where is the 14" iPad or the answer to Google Glass? They can't even seem to bring themselves to offer a normal sized phone.

Google Glass is DOA.
 
why would they advertise in movie theaters for what will likely be a $5000 desktop computer? They need to be targeting people who need these machines not the general public

People who need them already know about them. They specifically need to target the general public to improve the market share for the device category. There are plenty of people who will buy this just for the hell of it.
 
Unless you buy the "ameture" parts from Newegg vendor lockin from IBM, HP, DELL is at an all-time high. They all source custom shaped "common" parts from each RAID and Nic vendor so third parts don't fit in anybody else's hardware... Without using the custom parts, you don't get full "lights out" management and power savings.

My rack of IBM blade servers is MORE GLUED SHUT than even my iPhone in terms of getting parts. Apple is going to do just fine with their "glued shut"model as it means units will be easy to replace and compatibility of external parts easier to verify.

That's not entirely true. IBM-branded RAID cards are generally based on LSI designs and can be added to just about any brand of motherboard. They can also be crossflashed over the generic LSI firmware. These are quite popular within enthusiast communities for this very reason. NIC vendors do much the same thing.

I'm sure we can all find examples where this isn't the case but then there are robust service/support contracts to handle all issues. Furthermore, the bigger vendors will happily train on-site staff to handle repairs.

HP offers iLO (Integrated Lights-Out) management, Supermicro offers IPMI, etc. Sure they may be proprietary but we've used off-the-shelf components over the lifetime of these machines. I particularly like HP's iLO plugin for VMware vSphere. I also like that off-the-shelf components easily integrate with it.

Custom parts do exist: PSUs, motherboard designs, etc. However, the trend I've seen is using off-the-shelf parts that are "certified" by the vendors have trumped completely custom designs.

Why is there this ongoing conversation between people that have obviously never purchased any type of computer in a professional capacity. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Quit stating things like "fine for consumer gear but it shouldn't be entering prosumer/pro gear" when really quite the opposite is actually true and has been for decades.

You must have missed my album of professional gear earlier in the thread. Speaking about proprietary gear, you must not have ever touched the disaster known as the SGI Visual Workstation where 3.3v PCI slots, half-length DIMMs, and other crazy stuff never worked. The rest of SGI's line at the time were based on box-standard off-the-shelf components and did much better.

Furthermore, let's go into the SAN market. Most vendors use off-the-shelf components but tie it together with a lot of custom software and excellent support contracts.

I understand both of you have a vested interest in defending Apple's design choices but let's have an honest conversation about history, current offerings, and then evaluate Apple's decisions. Just because Apple does it doesn't make it right.
 
This is kinda....weird. So most people on here want to buy one because it looks cool and Not because you actually need it? :confused:

Question to the Pro's out there whom actually use a Pro machine for work and have experience with the pricing and stuff:

Since this is kind of the first time Apple is actually showing this in theaters to the masses...isn't it safe to say that the price range on this Pro machine is going to be pointed to the mainstream Apple user base...i mean why advertise this computer to the masses if its going to be Pro budget material?

Or

Could this be some sort of damage control advertising since there where and still are loads of negative articles, blog, forum...etc reactions. (not only on MacRumors but other sites as well.
 
Oh man, thanks.....

oh they will fold. of course you can only fold with those GPUs in windows, and those processors would be good, but not great. these days you gotta have 16 cores at a minimum to get the real big points

hopefully someone is able to get one and fold with it to let us know what it can do :apple:

for the assurance, but hell no, if in any moment I get a hold in one of these things I want it to fold based in the CPU.....:D

Nice to see you in the forums, pal....:D


:):apple:
 
This is kinda....weird. So most people on here want to buy one because it looks cool and Not because you actually need it? :confused:

i guess that's a matter of perception.. because as far as i can gather, a lot of people are saying it's useless because it looks like (something)

Question to the Pro's out there whom actually use a Pro machine for work and have experience with the pricing and stuff:

Since this is kind of the first time Apple is actually showing this in theaters to the masses...isn't it safe to say that the price range on this Pro machine is going to be pointed to the mainstream Apple user base...i mean why advertise this computer to the masses if its going to be Pro budget material?

not sure if that question needs no be directed at pro users..
i mean, for all i know, they're showing the ad in theaters because whoever was involved in making it is probably also involved in marketing decisions and they wanted it to run more than the one time at wwdc.. i highly doubt we'll see this commercial on tv or web.. it's not that style of ad


Could this be some sort of damage control advertising since there where and still are loads of negative articles, blog, forum...etc reactions. (not only on MacRumors but other sites as well.
again, i'm not sure why you're directing these questions at pros.. i'm sure there's some legit insight to be gained from them but this isn't such instance.
(unless you mean 'pro' as in professional advertisers and or PR types.. they might have some answers to your questions)
 
Why waste ad money playing this in theaters? The Mac Pro is such a niche product marketed and made for professionals only....

What is the point of marketing to the masses, most of which can barely run their iPhone or "Droids?"

Obviously, the idea is to sell this computer as a flagship product for the brand. This ad is not just an ad for the Mac Pro, but also an ad for Apple.

Most actual pros will know about the Mac Pro already though the ads for the masses might sell a few more.

Come to think of it, showing this in a movie theater makes perfect sense - the product looks so new, and so different, and so cool, that showing it in a social setting might make it even more desirable. The people around you will want one... you will want one.... something like that...
 
for the assurance, but hell no, if in any moment I get a hold in one of these things I want it to fold based in the CPU.....:D

Nice to see you in the forums, pal....:D


:):apple:

well there are some big points these days with GPUs. that 12-core cpu should be pretty good, but again if it had two of them it would be much better.

are you on our fah team?
 
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