Apple Buys 50 Business Class Seats From San Francisco to Shanghai Every Day

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. citysnaps macrumors 601

    Oct 10, 2011
    San Francisco
    You might not understand due to geography, and that many scientists/engineers/etc want to stay in their own country, that transportation by bus is not practical.

    Also...we are not talking about commuters.
  2. npmacuser5, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019

    npmacuser5 macrumors 65816


    Apr 10, 2015
    I was on one of the Shanghai flights. Tim Cook forgot to send me two tickets. Not sure what happened, being a loyal Apple user and all. :(
  3. MichaelOverton macrumors newbie


    Sep 4, 2016
    Apple has there world wide premium reseller offices here and FileMaker is based here as well
  4. anthogag macrumors member

    Jan 15, 2015
    I’m not talking about commuters. If Apple employees have to fly to China every day then too much Apple R&D and manufacturing is in China.
  5. CerebralX macrumors 6502


    Jun 28, 2013
    Looking for a place of freedom and rationality
    They've been cutting costs ever since several years ago to appease to their shareholders. Apparently they've kind of relaxed now again, so I don't know.
  6. anthogag macrumors member

    Jan 15, 2015
    Why? Because “at the end of the day” China is not a democracy and China’s political machine shows signs it has no interest in ‘joining’ the West. Companies like Apple only make China richer and more advanced to further China’s political agenda that, in the end, will not align with the West.

    It would take years but it would work. Computer technology originated in the West, not in China. The US and Canada and Mexico can definitely significantly decrease its dependence on China.
  7. upnorth85 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 2, 2011
    MN, USA
    what if they manufacture their product in the US close to their design offices?
  8. KPandian1 macrumors 65816

    Oct 22, 2013
    One more thing - these companies (it's not just Apple) have the "recommended" FaceTime or Skype meetings all the time; not just software companies.

    So, these in-person meetings involving these long "luxurious" flights that burn CO2 exclusively for the people in First and Business Classes (as implied by a lot of people here), are on top of the virtual meetings and exchange of "ideas"!

    The cost of global business model and the availability of airplanes:rolleyes:!

    You underestimate the importance of London and UK in the global business a lot.

    Hating Apple much;)!

    Why and how do you expect this to happen in North America - more clearly, in the USA, as that is what this is about?

    Because USA has an excess of STEM graduates well-versed in the Metric system?

    Or the labor force willing to do the job available in the assembly line? Automobile assembling seems to be the exception - of foreign manufacturers, not the Detroit labels!

    They won't mow their own lawns or harvest:(!

  9. upnorth85 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 2, 2011
    MN, USA
    We let the asylum seekers in and allow them to run Apple factories, just like the smart Merkel did with the Syrians so the Germans could power their Automotive plants with young labor in an aging nation with low birth rates. No need to build the wall and the government can again open.

  10. ender78 macrumors 6502

    Jan 9, 2005
    I find it amusing how easy some people believe manufacturing is. All you would have to do is find millions of people to make all the raw materials for the phone (down to every screw and sub component).

    A famous Tim Cook Quote illustrated part of the problem "Yeah, let me-- let me-- let me clear, China put an enormous focus on manufacturing. In what we would call, you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The U.S., over time, began to stop having as many vocational kind of skills. I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we're currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields. "

    Are a more recent quote referencing AirPods production

    This is why Apple employees need to travel to China :

    " And the idea that Apple simply hands over the design to a company like ICT, which just manufacturers according to spec, is simply untrue, says Cook:

    "It's not designed and sent over, that sounds like there's no interaction. The truth is, the process engineering and process development associated with our products require innovation in and of itself. Not only the product but the way that it's made, because we want to make things in the scale of hundreds of millions, and we want the quality level of zero defects. That's always what we strive for, and the way that you get there, particularly when you're pushing the envelope in the type of materials that you have, and the precision that your specifications are forcing, requires a kind of hand in glove partnership. You don't do it by throwing it over the chasm. It would never work. I can't imagine how that would be."
  11. KPandian1 macrumors 65816

    Oct 22, 2013
    And/or, step into the 20th (yes, twentieth) century and educate the children in the metric system! In two school cycles, problem solved.

    Remember, when they declared independence, they did it from the pounds, grains, stones, penny, farthing, gallon, etc.!

    That is why we have cents, 100 cents to the dollar in the official system!

    Then the Anglophiles became nostalgic:mad: - and pretentious:rolleyes:!

    Millions, Billions, (the Trillion dollar company) etc., are all metric - as is micro, nano, etc.

    So easy in the base 10 system to love STEM:cool:.
  12. citysnaps macrumors 601

    Oct 10, 2011
    San Francisco
    How much would be the correct amount? Pick a number.

    And where else does the infrastructure exist to manufacture 600,000+ phones a day (on the average)? And able to turn on a dime and peak considerably higher for new product roll-outs.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2019 ---
    See above.
  13. anthogag macrumors member

    Jan 15, 2015

    The US does have significant STEM graduates. Are the jobs there when they graduate. How many graduates find degree related employment?

    People working a minimum wage job could be working in a tech factory. The labour pool exists for factory work in North America but the factories moved to China because wages are lower and systemic corruption in China is more accommodating for Western businesses.
  14. racerhomie macrumors regular


    Aug 14, 2015
    Obviously there are Sam employees working in the factories. But I am saying Apple engineers have a significant presence there too.
  15. upnorth85 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 2, 2011
    MN, USA
    I am not sure if you studied in the US. Engineering programs in the US, use the metric and English system.So US educated Engineers are versatile in both systems. It is the general population that refuses to move our to the metric system. As an Engineer, I too am perplexed at this.

  16. anthogag macrumors member

    Jan 15, 2015
    600,000 phones per day is likely do-able in North America. It would mean more automation. Maybe when AI robots are smarter it could happen. The point is Apple could work on this kind of thing if it can work on autonomous projects like Titan.
  17. KPandian1 macrumors 65816

    Oct 22, 2013
    Yes, level the college STEM programs do train in the metric system - but that is too late. And, they are full of imported college students, who easily excel because it is first nature to them.

    The brilliant school children in USA are scared away from STEM because of the idiotic "Standard/English" American system at the middle school or earlier level.

    Medicine (and Pharmacology) also deal with the metric system - again, too late in the education chain.

    The general population is unaware that it is manipulated. You can research this - the business industry is resisting the metric system, generation after generation. The farmer, the grocer, the dairy line all resist the "change" - and anyone who tries to change the system is called a nutcase - President Carter! Or branded "Liberal"!:mad:

    The USA government is metric - just in paper; there is a legislation somewhere.

    I studied both systems - I know how hard the Standard system is - and unintuitive. Ten fingers vs a "dozen", 0-100 degrees in the freezing and boiling points of water as a standard in temperature, and just moving the decimal point left and right - basic examples.


    (Note that I didn't use F or C in the degrees - you know why, as an engineer)
  18. trusso macrumors regular

    Oct 4, 2003
    I’d have to imagine that United either gave said companies a heads-up AND/OR has language in their corporate contracts which makes this a non-issue. I don’t see a problem here.
  19. firewood, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019

    firewood macrumors 604

    Jul 29, 2003
    Silicon Valley
    Sorry. This sounds like you know nothing about high volume manufacturing. A 0.1% drop in quality would result in 100's of thousands of expensive iPhones that would have to be thrown in the dumpster and ground up. That pays not only for tons of flights but the payroll for 100's of engineers to take those flights. You can't tell that how closely they are following the specs via video conferencing until it's too late. You actually have to watch the process, touch the parts, and inspect each tooling machine on the line (and make sure the on-site inspectors aren't goofing off when not on facetime). That's not even mentioning auditingIP security and underage workers over the hour limit.

    Plenty of kickstarter projects blew up or went way over sched because the entrepreneur assumed the contract manufacturer would understand and follow the specs exactly as written/facetimed.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2019 ---
    If you think you can find and hire all the qualified people necessary to do this in California, do it. Start a contract manufacturing business. You will become a billionaire if you can get Apple's (or any other high volume tech product companies) business by offering a competitive piece price, quality, and rapid turn-around without requiring as much air travel.
  20. Williesleg macrumors regular

    Oct 28, 2014
    NY, NY
    I guess FaceTime doesn't work for them, either.
  21. Baymowe335 macrumors 68040

    Oct 6, 2017
    You’ve greatly simplified the process of manufacturing 300M devices annually while underestimating the Chinese workforce/work ethic. An ethos is not something that can just be transferred so easily.

    China has a very business oriented interest and it will work well with the US over time. It has to for both parities to be successful. I believe both nations understand they need each other.
  22. KPandian1, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019

    KPandian1 macrumors 65816

    Oct 22, 2013
    Companies like Apple and any company that manufacture/assemble in China are exploiting existing Chinese workforce availability, due to its repressive regime.

    No - computer technology, starting with math, is East of Europe!

    USA can decrease their dependance on China - after all, it created it. It is too much effort for the USA to correct it.

    Cheap/slave labour - where else can you get it ... until the USA discovers the Dark Continent! A more friendly timezone!
  23. rodedwards macrumors member

    Jul 7, 2010
  24. anthogag macrumors member

    Jan 15, 2015

    You have greatly simplified your outlook of the situation. China will not work well with the US over time. There are many current issues that point to lousy relations between the 2 countries.

    China has a $250 billion trade surplus with the US; this is obscene. This has to go.

    The US is accusing China of artificially de-valuing its currency so its exports are cheaper.

    The South China sea. China wants it all. It's technically "international waters". The US sent a navy ship to this area. China sent their ships to intercept.

    China wants Taiwan. Taiwan should remain an independent democratic nation but China wants it. The West (led by the US) is siding with Taiwan.

    China has their 2025 "technology transfer" plan to dominate key tech sectors by 2025. Trump's White House is opposing this because it is China's 1 party communist-style state-sponsored initiative.

    Apparently Western technology firms don't have access to China's communication infrastructure. Most likely because China's government needs to control what people see, hear, and think.

    China's "one belt one road" project/initiative. This is China spreading its own influence around the world. Essentially getting poorer countries to make China their priority for providing natural resources and food products in exchange for money, technology, etc. Lately we've seen what happens when a country does something China doesn't like, they politicize it and threaten retaliation.

    And it is easy to imagine China helped North Korea develop nukes to use as a bargaining chip for getting US armed forces out of South Korea.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2019 ---

    No, not "California". Apple has the entire North America to do it.

    There are most likely plenty of countries around the world interested in manufacturing devices for Apple.
  25. rols macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2008
    well that means you haven't read the posts pointing out at the bottom of the sign is line saying "confidential information not to be shared outside United". This was a big fat booboo by someone who let a sign for an internal meeting be photographed.

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