Apple Calls Facebook-Commissioned Study on Preinstalled App Usage 'Seriously Flawed'

[Porco]

I can’t install Facebook on my microwave oven. When will this anti-competitive behaviour end?

 

[nikaru]

Clock app is one of the most used apps, because it is the freaking clock of the phone!!! Facebook is seriously trying to embarace itself. Pathetic.

 

[Glideslope]

Zuck continues his metastatic spread. The cancer must be flushed.

 

[Livvie]

Clock app is one of the most used apps, because it is the freaking clock of the phone!!! Facebook is seriously trying to embarace itself. Pathetic.

Yeah and people (like me) set alarms more often than i call people

 

[hans1972]

Would you be apposed to something similar to what Microsoft had to do with IE? Instead of pre-installing the default IE, you got a setup option screen that gave you choice. IE was still highlighted as "Microsofts own". But you could easily click to chose any one of the other "approved" browsers. Which would than install for you and set as default.

In the Norwegian part of the App Store there are at least 40 browsers last time I checked.

So no, I don't want to choose. I want Apple to choose for me. I don't want to be bothered. If I need something better than what Apple provides, only then will I look for it.

Developers are evil until proven otherwise. Every company which uses ads for significant part of their income or collects data and uses that data for other purposes than making the product better, should also loose.

 

[hans1972]

I actually agree that Apple/Google are squeezing out app developers bit by bit. You can’t even write an alarm app on iOS. Their own apps are first class citizens, pre-installed and always free.

Which is how I want it.

Developers should be treated as second-class citizens, at best. They are means to an end. They are evil and nefarious until proven otherwise.

To me Apple is my shield against evil developers which are most of them.

 

[gregmancuso]

This is a lie and misinformation. At the time, All browsers were still free. Netscape, Opera, etc. All free browers.

Not true. Netscape at the time was $49. Granted individuals would often get a free license from their ISP but not companies. IE was bundled and licensed for free to consumer and commercial customers.

"For now, though, note this fact: Microsoft is giving away Internet Explorer, while Netscape's retail price for Navigator is $49. (You can download a trial version and use it free for up to 90 days; also, most Internet service providers throw in a free version of Navigator when you sign up with them.)" Fast Company, Nothing but Netscape, Oct 31, 1996.

And APPLE is actively going after competing services by setting license terms on the Apple store that are entirely in favour of Apple monetization and Apple Apps first. With full ability to block and limit the features and functionalities of Any competing app. Else lose the license to distribute iOS Apps.

So.. Yes, Apple is doing the same thing.

It is quite a stretch to say that the App Store with whatever fees are included is akin to directly and methodically trying to leverage a monopoly on OS to force company threatening terms on OES and strive to force a competitor out of business.

I am not going to get into the App Store or the fees. That is a holy war that has yet to be fought. Maybe there is an antitrust issue. Maybe not. I'll defer to the courts on that one. Maybe the fees are too high for the services provided. Maybe not. Considering the services are much more than transaction processing so it is not as easy as "Visa charges 3%." One could even infer EPIC thinks the CC transaction service is worth 10% (not 3) by looking at the fact they only reduced the service fee from 30% to 20%. They still kept 10% to cover the transactions. (math simplified for ease of discussion)

Good for you and so have i. But it's completely irrelevant to the argument and is meaningless chest thumping that doesn't prove your point.

The list of operating systems was to prove a point. You are throwing around phrases like "dear Apple" and "Microsoft bad". Obviously implying that I am nothing but an Apple fan and have never looked outside of the spaceship. I have, and still do, use(d) a wide variety of systems and each has their pros and cons. I am not beholden to any one.

Excecpt my argument isn't "over simplified" and I didn't have to write multiple paragraphs because it's a "simplified argument". you believe it's a simplified argument because your own perceived bias clearly had you skim over the arguments, ignore what you didn't like to read, and then emotionally try calling out my argument as "simple"

When the sum of your argument (at the beginning) was "Microsoft bundling IE," yes it oversimplified. My original response was ONLY to that common misstatement. If you actually know the history and used the common phrasing for brevity then I apologize for misunderstanding your post..

 

[gregmancuso]

Apple's argument is also flawed.

It's NOT that there's little competition in the App Store, it's simply that Apple has a Complete & Total Stranglehold on "App Discovery" !

At a MIN, there should be a number of third-party "App Discovery" App Stores here in the States, & NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

Ideally, there would be a number of Full-Blown Third-Party App Stores here in the States, & again, NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

There are third-party app discovery mechanisms - the Internet! Every app in the App Store has a direct link and developers are free to advertise or get their apps listed on aggregators like CNEt or whatever. They would link to the App Store for delivery. Not hard.

Additional app stores would not help discovery and only serve to segregate delivery. It would be impossible to get all apps without enabling alternative stores. The fact that the App Store actively reviews and polices apps would mean many apps would move to an alternative that did not perform such diligence.

 

[gregmancuso]

My experience is different, I see lots of them call here (EU state).

Must be something about which side of the Atlantic you are on. I cannot think of a time I've see anyone under 50 using a phone as phone (other that in office settings). Unless I call my kids they will never talk on the phone. And most of the time they let the call go to voice mail and reply via Messages.

 

[falkon-engine]

Are you seriously suggesting there needs to be competition for the Phone App or the Springboard? Seriously? What’s next? Ford has to let other companies provide steering wheels as options for the cars customers buy from them? WalMart has to start letting Target set up checkout machines at its front area? I’ve heard some questionable takes on what Apple should have to do regarding the iPhone but congratulations, you’ve topped the list.

These “analogies” are disingenuous. I take it you’ve never jailbroken your phone, so you’re not aware of the possibilities of customizing the springboard. Many of the UI enhancements that Apple has added to the springboard over the years actually were inspired by jailbreak tweaks. Speaking of jail breaking, the iPhone ecosystem isn’t any less secure, even with the existence of the Cydia App Store…

Adding alternative app stores to the iPhone is NOT akin to walmart adding Target checkout machines, it is simply giving users the ability to get Apps from alternative locations, just like Apple users can on the Mac. The iPhone OS is based on the macOS kernel, and if macOS is safe enough to tolerate side loading, why is iPhone OS, that is based on macOS, not? It’s all about profit, alternative app stores would negatively affect Apple’s profits, that is the long and short of it.

 

[Livvie]

I actually agree that Apple/Google are squeezing out app developers bit by bit. You can’t even write an alarm app on iOS. Their own apps are first class citizens, pre-installed and always free. Apple/Google are getting too big. They are hampering innovation. FB is also part of the problem.

Sorry if I’m getting this completely wrong. But I have an alarm app downloaded?

 

[loadafreak]

May have missed the point but, I think these numbers don’t include users worldwide?
My impression is if they include countries outside of U.S.A. the numbers would probably be very different.
Example: Just solely on comparing iMessage to other messaging app . The Japanese uses Line app, most of south east Asia uses WhatsApp, I’m in australia and most of anyone I meet uses Facebook Messenger. Until recently, India uses WhatsApp. In fact, we can call using those apps, I barely use the included phone app.

I may be wrong and this is just my opinion but these numbers are skewed.

 

[nueioad]

if they include countries outside of U.S.A. the numbers would probably be very different.

Doesn't matter for Facebook, though. Facebook's average revenue per user is 5x higher in the US and Canada than in the worldwide average, it is their most important market by far. 13x higher than the Asia Pacific average revenue per user.

 

[scuac]

Well, I have zero interest in installing youtube or facebook on my phone, so I guess this survey is correct? Are we supposed to be surprised that more people are interested in using the phone as an alarm clock than to use it to read facebook? I really don't get the point.

 

[G.lo]

Well FB, make your own phone and operating system.
If people want it they can buy it.
I wont be one.

Facebook certainly could make their own phone and OS, but I think a broader principle is at work here. Tech companies, including each of Apple and Facebook wield tremendous influence on our lives. What they do with that influence matters. Am I as a consumer harmed by Messages being the default messaging app? Probably not. But, am harmed if it’s the only default messaging app? Possibly so.

 

[falkon-engine]

There may be no alternative "phone" app but so what. I am buying a iPhone I would expect the ONLY phone app capable of interacting with the phone hardware is the first-party app. The same holds true for Android where I would expect only the Android phone app (or manufacturers' branched app assuming that is possible with Android licensing).

There are plenty of alternatives to the phone app for making calls VOIP calls - Teams, Zoom, Google Voice, 8x8, the list goes on. Many of these allow for a bridge to a POTS phone number.

And as for Springboard - how many alternative desktops are there for Windows? Even the various Linux desktops are branches of a couple of common codebases. How many desktops would you expect? or want. Even in its heyday Cydia didn't have alternatives to Springboard in its catalog - skins, yes, but not desktops.

This is a silly straw man. There are some apps that should be considered core services or basic functional apps froth manufacturer - phone, camera, calendar, browser, mail, settings, notes, media player, App Store (yes I am including App App Store on this list), etc. These are all either required or apps providing basic functionality. Most of which may be deleted from your device if you don't want to use them. All of which also come with every windows, Mac, linux, and android device (well, phone obviously is only on the android options). All of which have have alternatives that are quite successful. I'll grant that Weather may not be required but I would be surprised to not find a basic weather app on a new device.

You’ve read way too far into my comment. I merely made a point that Apple’s claim of robust competition in the App Store is myopic. The argument’s scope doesn’t extend beyond the App Store itself, as there is no alternative App Store and thus no competition between Apple and other App Store operators. That is a fact. Also, contrary to the suggestion from Apple’s claims that there is robust competition on the iPhone, many aspects of the iPhone are locked down like the phone app, springboard/launcher, and so on. That is a fact.

Also, I have no problem with the iPhone being preloaded with the apps from Apple like the App Store, phone app, calculator, safari, messages, etc. But I am a proponent of choice, and I strongly support the ability to install alternative app stores. I know many others disagree with my point of view, and that’s fine.

 

[Dave00]

The biggest flaw here - and it's intentional - is that app popularity is determined by whether one ever used the app in a given month, not how often the app is used or how much time is spent using the app. This leads to oddities like Messages being "less popular" than Weather. Does anyone really think Weather is a bigger part of the user experience than Messages?

 

[Michael Scrip]

So... Apple has an App Store where you can download alternatives to nearly every Apple-supplied app that comes on the phone. You can download Google Maps to use instead of Apple Maps... Overcast instead of Apple Podcasts... Fantastical instead of Apple Calendar... etc.

But that's not good enough.

Now people want alternative app stores, too.

Sheesh... it never ends!

 

[nueioad]

The entire “hampering innovation” can be easily proved wrong by looking into the market of calculator apps on the iPad.

The iPad doesn’t include a built in calculator app, and if you search for an alternative on the App Store you’ll think the most popular calculator apps are a joke. You would think there is a decent calculator app for 5 bucks, but you would be wrong!

The top 4 apps track your usage and show ads, some of the apps are only available as a subscription (which is not reasonable, paying a subscription for a 0 maintenance app) and most of then are just a copy of the iOS calculator.

There are also some very complex calculator apps which I’m sure are great but are too expensive to justify if all you want is basic mathematics.

This is the kind of thing that happen when you expect a third-party to handle basic functionality…

 

[jinnj]

Well FB, make your own phone and operating system.
If people want it they can buy it.
I wont be one.

They did and it was a big failure! Android based and it was sending back your location to FB so much that it had terrible battery specs! When Zuckerberg was questioned on the terrible battery life he said "Carry a charger with you". This is why I will never purchase any FB based device (Oculus VR included).

 

[Livvie]

This whole thing just doesn’t make sense to me though? Couldn’t you flip the situation and Apple could say Google are doing the exact same thing to them?

 

[Livvie]

They did and it was a big failure! Android based and it was sending back your location to FB so much that it had terrible battery specs! When Zuckerberg was questioned on the terrible battery life he said "Carry a charger with you". This is why I will never purchase any FB based device (Oculus VR included).

We should all start going off the grid… deleting social media accs, only having extremely basic info on other things etc… see how the world changes when they lose sight of us

 

[CopyChief]

I suspect that these numbers do not reflect the time spent in each app but rather the percentage of device owners that have used said app in a certain time window. It's a weird way to present the data but it makes sense if you want it to support Facebook's agenda.

This is exactly the problem. From the sounds of it, it’s a self-reporting survey. And if the question is quoted correctly here, it’s asking about default apps. So of course people will report using those apps. Come on.

 

[MowgliWolf]

How interesting and somewhat suspicious….
Well I have the phone app plus Viber, Signal and a rapidly diminishing WhatsApp for calls and messaging depending on where I am in the world. I have the calculator App but also another more scientific one for different calculations. I have the music app but also Bandcamp, Soundcloud and Beatport for music.

If iPhones launch with no native apps, to my mind that’ll severely affect its functionality. I appreciate options and variety but require the basics also

 

[draig]

”This Facebook-financed survey from December 2020 was narrowly tailored to give the false impression that there's little competition on the App Store. In truth, third-party apps compete with Apple's apps across every category and enjoy large scale success.”

There may well be competition in the App Store, but there’s no alternative phone app in the App Store, the App Store itself has no competition, and there’s also no alternative springboard/launcher. There may be some competition on the iPhone, but many aspects of the phone are indeed off limits to any competition at all.

That being said, Apple develops good Apps. I like Safari, Apple Mail, FaceTime, messages, and so forth.

I'm happy that there is no alternative phone app, App Store or launcher. My iPhone does everything I could need already and my main concern is privacy and security. I don't care about competition and innovation. It all 'innovates' faster than I can keep up with anyway.