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Apple Calls Facebook-Commissioned Study on Preinstalled App Usage 'Seriously Flawed'

Are they joking? xD There are so many variables to account for. I have no confidence they accounted for even half. I can't even find the full report anywhere to review their methodology.

Variables to account for:
  1. The type of smartphone users that were surveyed. Are they power users or basic users? This would influence whether they go out of their way to download a third party and possibly superior app the the stock app preinstalled on the phone.
  2. The possibility that the stock app is sufficient for the users needs.
  3. The stock app may be more aesthetically pleasing. Perhaps the fact it only has basic functionality is the appeal in the first place. No other complexity or clutter in the app that would otherwise reduce the enjoyment of use.
  4. The stock app developers values may match the values of the end user. For example, privacy as a priority, or customizability.
  5. The stock app developers may simply put out a superior app.
My theory is that stock apps provide enough functionality for the majority of users and therefore third party apps for those aren't downloaded as much. The fact the CALCULATOR app even shows up on their top 10 list supports this theory.
 
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LordVic said:
well, if I'm invited to a dinner, at that point the onus is on me to inform the host of the alllergies. Not just assume. but that's digressing and not really on topic :)

The problem I have with Apple's approach. is that it's exclusionary. it's not going to bring 'the best and brightest' develoeprs to iOS.

Apple wants to host the dinner party for everyone. But at the same time, refuses to adjust their menus for those with special needs. SO if we went back to the analogy of food alergies, Apple by refusing to change, is telling me that I am not welcome at the dinner. (or in this analogy, it's apple effectively telling competing service categories that they're not really welcome on the ipHone)
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That's the beautiful thing about capitalism. If you go to a place that doesn't serve your needs, then you are free to go elsewhere with your business. Apple has to be able to set rules for its platform and I am sorry, but developers DO NOT get to tell Apple how to do it. If the developers do not like it, then go develop for Android. And Apple is not exclusionary in the sense that the rules are there for all to see before entering its marketplace. Apps like Fortnite and the others thought they discovered another way to squeeze more profits without making sure Apple got its cut but still expected Apple to host and deliver their apps to customers. Facebook doesn't like it because they don't get access to everyone's data for free to sell like they did previously. Yet Facebook themselves has their own rules that they enforce incessantly and arbitrarily and point to their Terms of Service.

And wasn't Facebook coming out with their own phone? Think their own app will be preinstalled?
 
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visualseed said:
And the pre-installed radios are used more than Alpine, Kenwood, and JVC combined.
Click to expand...

I would actually make an argument that there's a LITTLE antitrust behaviour with Car dash UI's these days as well.

almost none are using standardized DIN anymore. And almost for no reason other than to basically lock you into them as the vendor for service.

my 2012 Camry even has this and drives me nucking futs. the damn screen is perfectly sized to 2 DIN units. but instead of making the whole device within a standard head unit, they put a metal backplate to block off the depth, and it's only a csreen. the rest of the mechanics were jsut randomly put around the dash behind.

there were no real mechanical reasons for doing it this way. I've seen head units from 3rd parties that will fit in a 2din unit with all the same features.

As I've said in previous comments. This isn't an apple exclusive issue. this is a modern era capitalism issue where regulations and governments have stopped effecitively enforcing antitrust and anti competitive behaviour by these companies who push for vertical integration for lockdown controls and anti-consumer avarice.
 
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polyphenol said:
The sole facebook app I'd like is the one that ensures absolutely nothing on my phone can communicate with facebook.

Mind, I can't see such an app coming from facebook. (And quite likely it would be extremely difficult to impossible to achieve.)
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While it wont necessarily work on Cellular Data or if on someone elses wifi, at home you can just outright block facebook by using your own DNS provider like a PiHole. And add facebook domains to the block list.

set your phone to use that DNS server while at home and at least know that your phone will never be able to reach Facebooks servers.

I've done this for Microsoft's metrics reporting that you can't disable. I just straight up blocked my computer from being able to reach Microsofts servers completely
 
Crazy how my copy of Windows only shipped with explorer.exe and not Finder.app. ITS A CONSPIRACY BY BIG WINDOWS.
 
arvinsim said:
If you serve meat knowing that some people are vegans/vegetarians, then you are an *******.
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So no one is allowed to eat meat if one person is a vegetarian.

Eyeroll.

Your dietary preferences have little to do with what someone serves for dinner. No one cares if you don't eat one item that was served. My whole point is that you can pick what you want to eat from what was served or you can leave. You can choose to eat what's on the table or not, but you don't get a say over what someone serves.
 
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4jasontv said:
Eyeroll.

Your dietary preferences have little to do with what someone serves for dinner. No one cares if you don't eat one item that was served. My whole point is that you can pick what you want to eat from what was served or you can leave. You can choose to eat what's on the table or not, but you don't get a say over what someone serves.
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his comment still stands though

you invite me to dinner. I tell you I have dietary restrictions, some that could cause me serious problems.

and you say "eat what I serve or leave"

yes. I leave. because that's an arsehole thing to do and say. and Why would i sit at your dinner party with an empty plate? are you really endorsing assholism as a thing that we should be proud of these days?
 
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Am I missing something here, Apple developed their products from day one to be based on their own hardware designs and operating systems in order to create an echo system for their customers which they can trust and enjoy. This is no different to buying a Mercedes, BMW or any other brand of product.

No one forces people to buy Apple, people buy Apple on the understanding that are buying a quality product. Apple provided a way for developers and third parties to make money from their products.

Facebook is similar in that once you login to Facebook you are in their world. Again they also allow developers and third parties to make money.

The main difference to me is that Facebook wants your data to make money where Apple is stating that your dating should be private.
 
LordVic said:
his comment still stands though

you invite me to dinner. I tell you I have dietary restrictions, some that could cause me serious problems.

and you say "eat what I serve or leave"

yes. I leave. because that's an arsehole thing to do and say. and Why would i sit at your dinner party with an empty plate? are you really endorsing assholism as a thing that we should be proud of these days?
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I invite you to dinner and you tell me you have dietary restrictions and I will let you know what I am making. It's on you to decide if you want to go.

I have never been to a dinner that only served one item. You would be able to find something.

My goodness. How entitled do you have to be to think that your preferences would change anything?
 
In other news, Disney parks contain only Disney content.

Vertical integration isn’t a monopoly. There are other choices, but when you go Apple, you get a lot of Apple. When you go to Disney, you get Disney content.
 
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I actually agree that Apple/Google are squeezing out app developers bit by bit. You can’t even write an alarm app on iOS. Their own apps are first class citizens, pre-installed and always free. Apple/Google are getting too big. They are hampering innovation. FB is also part of the problem.
 
All the comments here attacking the fact that the report was Facebook commissioned, rather than actually engage with the report which is illuminating to say the least. Facebook bashing is cool and all but you then prevent proper and dispassionate scrutiny of what is really going on.
 
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oh my god Facebook is being stupid! what they want apple and android to sell their phone empty? I want to see them do that. I guess this why Facebook don't make their own phone because no body would buy them when they sell their phone empty. hahaha too late don't start making your own phone now, ok?
 
philosopherdog said:
I actually agree that Apple/Google are squeezing out app developers bit by bit. You can’t even write an alarm app on iOS. Their own apps are first class citizens, pre-installed and always free. Apple/Google are getting too big. They are hampering innovation. FB is also part of the problem.
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At least on iOS, people will gladly pay for your Alarm app if it's better than the iOS app. And, given the last update to the iOS alarm app, it wouldn't be very difficult to do better.

Just don't expect to get paid every month.
 
Top apps on iPhone: Apple Apps
Top apps on Android: Android Apps... Interesting,
in other news, water is wet.

I didn't realize this study was facebook commissioned. That's just dirty
 
Apple's argument is also flawed.

It's NOT that there's little competition in the App Store, it's simply that Apple has a Complete & Total Stranglehold on "App Discovery" !

At a MIN, there should be a number of third-party "App Discovery" App Stores here in the States, & NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

Ideally, there would be a number of Full-Blown Third-Party App Stores here in the States, & again, NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

The solution to the problem is trivial, extremely trivial.

Why it has taken Congress so long to even get to the point that it's at now is puzzling !

If Apple had real competition, the End User wins BIG time !

Both WRT App Discovery, & Price !

And, the war isn't AAPL vs GOOG vs FB vs AMZN, it's actually everyone else against those four !

Whoever gets credit for Breaking Up the App Store will be able to call their own shots moving forward !

And I seriously doubt it will be FB or GOOG.

It will be someone OR someones Off the Radar of most.

Ask yourself, why does the Today tab of the App Store App flood End Users every single day with Game Apps, Apple Arcade, & apps for little kids ? ... & why are there NO filters to prevent that from happening ?

The simply answer, Apple wants to Control the Narrative !

The Good News, that's about to end !
 
LordVic said:
The problem is most users don't use "the best app" most of the time. They use whats already there and in their face for convenience.

if a user wants to sign up for a music streaming service, buys and iPhone and Apple music is already pre-installed, on their homescreen, with a "free trial" already built in. the majority of users will not go out of their way to find alternative solutions.

This is what FaceBook is trying to prove. Similar to the Anti-Trust cases against microsoft in the 90's early 00's over IE's bundling in Windows.
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But again, so what? You buy the phone, you expect apps. If the maker of the phone has an app I would a, expect it to be installed, and b, expect a special offer like a free trial if it was a sub.

these cases are similar to turkeys voting for Christmas. Even if they got their way all it would do is make the whole experience utterly worse.
Either no apps installed and need to know what you need to run a basic phone, or Multiple choices of random apps at install. What a terrible idea.
Instead, the phone works rather well out of the box (it’s a grand, you know. It should work out of the box and it should come with everything), and a curated Appstore every day gives me alternatives to apples apps.

By the way, nothing Apple is doing is similar to what Microsoft did which resulted in their antitrust case.
 
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Cosmosent said:
Apple's argument is also flawed.

It's NOT that there's little competition in the App Store, it's simply that Apple has a Complete & Total Stranglehold on "App Discovery" !

At a MIN, there should be a number of third-party "App Discovery" App Stores here in the States, & NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

Ideally, there would be a number of Full-Blown Third-Party App Stores here in the States, & again, NONE should be controlled by BIG Tech !

The solution to the problem is trivial, extremely trivial.

Why it has taken Congress so long to even get to the point that it's at now is puzzling !

If Apple had real competition, the End User wins BIG time !

Both WRT App Discovery, & Price !

And, the war isn't AAPL vs GOOG vs FB vs AMZN, it's actually everyone else against those four !

Whoever gets credit for Breaking Up the App Store will be able to call their own shots moving forward !

And I seriously doubt it will be FB or GOOG.

It will be someone OR someones Off the Radar of most.

Ask yourself, why does the Today tab of the App Store App flood End Users every single day with Game Apps, Apple Arcade, & apps for little kids ? ... & why are there NO filters to prevent that from happening ?

The simply answer, Apple wants to Control the Narrative !

The Good News, that's about to end !
Click to expand...
Why shouldn't Apple apps rank up there on App Discovery? It's THEIR platform. For the same reason ABC doesn't advertise CBS prime time shows and why CBS doesn't allow prime-time shows from NBC to advertise and draw viewers away to another network. Apple did not spend a ton of money and time developing an App Store so everyone else can make money but somehow Apple isn't allowed to feature their apps (which most work way better than other crap in the App Store).

If Apple wants to feature their apps and set rules that are so crazy that other developers leave, then so be it. Developers have a choice to stay or go but they MUST play by the rules. Why don't developers leave? Because the customers who spend money are on iPhone. Most Android users are happy with free subpar apps. It's why many are on Android to begin with; many can't afford iPhones. That's why they are crying and whining. If Apple is so unfair and your apps are so great, show Apple and take your app development to their competitors. But developers won't because Apple is and always will be where the money is.
 
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