Apple Calls Samsung's Request to See iPhone 5 and iPad 3 an 'Attempt to Harass'

[thatrandomguy]

IMHO, I think Samsung did it mostly so they can see what they are coming out with to COPY it as well.

Samsung's argument is that they need to see it in an attempt to prove that Apple's alleged trade dress is not consistent (e.g. changes in next gen products) to the point where not having it would substantially weaken their legal ability to defend themselves.

Considering Apple hasn't announced the existence of such products and the argument is over present alleged "Apple trade dress", the argument is flimsy at best.

Samsung would also not have direct access (basically, legal industrial espionage). 3rd party lawyers would handle it and make a summary.

 

[thatrandomguy]

no, Apple wants to see products that are already announced, Samsung wants to see products that have not only not been announced but do not exist yet. there is a big difference there... worse it is Apple suing for trade dress, Samsung has not brought such a suit, so has no basis in asking to see what does not exist.

On the announced/unnanounced point, I addressed that by saying that there was a difference (Samsung's argument against Apple seeing their devices was substantially weakened):

Samsung has already released device samples/information to the public for many of the devices in the lawsuit (e.g. the SGS II).

On Apple suing Samsung but not vice versa: Samsung's claims would have merit regardless if Apple had announced a future product (and therefore the advertising, trade dress aspects, etc. were reaching the public). That by itself does not constitute a reason for denial - reciprocal access would be appropriate if Apple had announced an upcoming product or had released details/samples. As is, they're without merit.

 

[Prallethrin]

It is.

The cumbags at Samsung are just playing games now.

They tried to piggy-back of the iPhone's reputation, tried to mispresent their Galaxy S in the eye's of the ill-informed. Apple called them on it, now they are whining like bitches.

A pity Google is still using their services, their taint has infected Google's reputation in my eyes.

 

[darnovo]

lol @ Apple saying the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 are trade secrets... you mean those two devices that you will add a little better processor to, maybe change the shape a little and slap a new picture on the box and call it magical?

hate to tell u, but it's no secret

 

[wordoflife]

What, they want to see iPhone 5 and iPad 3 without seeing the iPod Touch 5???!?

Anyways, I wonder if Apple will just sell an iPhone 5 and iPad 3 with the same design, just faster internals.

 

[samcraig]

Samsung could always invite Gray Powell out for drinks...

 

[notabadname]

Apple's dead on in this case. What is the relevance of future Apple products to Apple's suit about just releasing Samsung products copying existing Apple products?

 

[paul4339]

I'm surprised that RIM hasn't sued anyone ... If Apple wins this one, I hope that RIM steps up as well... I've seen so many phones that look very very similar to RIM (blackberry clones)

 

[thatrandomguy]

Apple's dead on in this case. What is the relevance of future Apple products to Apple's suit about just releasing Samsung products copying existing Apple products?

If the products were at least announced, it would have relevance on Samsung's ability to make a case against allegations of trade dress (e.g. logo changes, design changes, etc. that would punch a hole in the argument that alleged design aspects are unique to Apple in the mind of a consumer).

As is, it's irrelevant.

 

[nwcs]

Amazing how many people comment without reading the article or using an ounce of their brain. Samsung's motion will be denied and all will move forward. I have no idea if Apple's case has merit but it will be interesting to see how this continues to develop.

 

[NebulaClash]

and pray tell, which law are you referring too? the one about a company asking for none existent future products? or the one about a company actually wanting to see things that don't exist yet?

what is particularly laughable about your comment is that somehow a person with a "legal" background, is in the only position to respond on things that have no bases in law.. (there are no prior cases where a company asked to see products that don't exist yet)

by friday we will know what the judge "thinks" because there is only going to be his opinion that counts... somehow without having any "legal" background, it is still pretty obvious what the judge will rule..

You're kidding, right? This involves the courts, as you admit. So of course it's a legal story. That means it will be decided on the basis of law, something almost all of us have no formal training in (including the FOSS Patents guy). So all of our comments reflect our personal biases. Too bad. The judge will decide on the basis of law, and it won't necessarily be intuitive, just legal. Law is not always obvious.

 

[thatrandomguy]

Amazing how many people comment without reading the article or using an ounce of their brain.

Well, it's an exciting topic. I do think some people hit reply too quickly.

Samsung's motion will be denied and all will move forward. I have no idea if Apple's case has merit but it will be interesting to see how this continues to develop.

That will be for the court to decide. I think things such as "a rectangular product shape with all four corners uniformly rounded" and "a rectangular box with metallic silver lettering and a large front-view picture of the product prominently on the top surface of the box;" (in combination with the other aspects apple describes) do not make me think it's an Apple product or at all affiliated with Apple.

We're geeks though, we follow the devices and their releases, and their specific differences. The average consumer might not.

 

[toddybody]

Apple is being racist

but wasnt it the White iPhones that had all the trouble?

 

[CindyRed]

really?
shocking

i was expecting apple to invite a few samsung engineers to their labs to discuss everything in detail and send them back with demo units

Yeah, imagine if Apple did that early in their existence with say; Microsoft, during the heydays of the "ideal OS quests" of the 70's. Could you imagine? Oh... Wait...

 

[thatrandomguy]

You're kidding, right? This involves the courts, as you admit. So of course it's a legal story. That means it will be decided on the basis of law, something almost all of us have no formal training in (including the FOSS Patents guy). So all of our comments reflect our personal biases. Too bad. The judge will decide on the basis of law, and it won't necessarily be intuitive, just legal. Law is not always obvious.

Law is also not always consistent and requires the judgment and opinion of a human being. Something could be "illegal" or "Legal" under the perceived intent of the law and the case circumstances.

Apple knows this well from Apple Computer v. Microsoft; however, it's not just design/UI similarity (there were a few design patents in there as well, plus a claim of violating the iTunes logo trademark). Other than the iTunes logo I think Apple's reasoning is spurious, but we're far from average consumers. At least your average judge probably isn't a geek and will likely represent a more typical viewpoint on the similarities, perception of trade dress, etc.

 

[logandzwon]

yes, because next generation, unannounced, not-even in production units have anything to do with if Samsung copied past and current gen iPhones.

 

[toddybody]

Dear ddolde,
Enjoy Permanent Banning Purgatory.

-Todd

PS: You know MR's head honcho is Arnold Kim right? Yeesh

 

[rovex]

For some odd reason i've noticed Americans get overly excited when it concerns lawsuits.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Samsung needs to come clean, admit they copied Apple and move on.

 

[rovex]

Apple needs to come clean, admit they copied Android's notification system and move on.

 

[thatrandomguy]

Samsung needs to come clean, admit they copied Apple and move on.

"Copying" in the sense of incorporating design aspects people like is not illegal. Apple needs to prove that consumers are/will be misled by the design similarities of the iDevices and Samsung products in order to get any relief.

 

[Winni]

Do you people even read the news article?

Actually, that is exactly the point: Apple demands to see prototypes of unreleased products because they claim that Samsung is copying Apple's designs (presumably also) in FUTURE products. Now Samsung wants to see some of Apple's prototypes as well to better defend themselves.

This whole thing is ridiculous, and I think Samsung is just giving Apple's legal department a taste of their own medicine.

Anyway, when I look at the Samsung Galaxy S2, Apple should definitely be worried. The S2 is so far ahead of the iPhone, it's not even funny anymore.

 

[thatrandomguy]

Apple needs to come clean, admit they copied Android's notification system and move on.

Of course, common quip I'm seeing around. I agree that Apple was inspired by it, but I view it as a positive thing for Apple device users, not some point of defeat or evil action in a war.

This is the thing I refuse to understand. Why is incorporating a design aspect that people find positive so voraciously hated by some people (I wouldn't say "everyone here" because that's the polar opposite; opinions seem moderate and varied on the whole).

Everybody wins. In prior trade dress lawsuits (many of which ruled against the plaintiff), the judges were careful to mention that every improvement in design should not be blocked and trade dress must have a "secondary meaning".

 

[BLACKFRIDAY]

Apple needs to come clean, admit they copied Android's notification system and move on.

They did.

So they so called 'copied' Android's notification menu and people are butthurt?

To be honest, didn't android copied SBSettings in the first place. Agreed that SBSettings were not notifications, they did come out of the status bar in the form of a drop-down menu.

So all in all, heres what you are claiming:

Apple agree to it that you copied Android's notification system which is a drop-down menu on the status bar used by tonnes of jailbreak apps, unix operating systems and OSX itself for notifications and settings. Sad.

Get over it already.

 

[NebulaClash]

Anyway, when I look at the Samsung Galaxy S2, Apple should definitely be worried. The S2 is so far ahead of the iPhone, it's not even funny anymore.

Competitors always trump Apple on spec sheets. It's the entire ecosystem that needs to be beat in order to beat Apple, as all those iPod competitors learned. So the Samsung Galaxy S2 may be all that, but until they can compete with Apple's entire world, I don't think Apple is too worried.