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Legal responsibility will depend on the nature of the self driving tech. At some point it will become a product liability issue and the person in the driver’s seat will not be held liable.

Given that generally has not happened to date I doubt personal liability will go away. In the end, the owner and driver will be held responsible as long as the vehicle lets them be the ultimate decision maker; something I doubt will go away, even with FSD cars, because driving conditions are so variable.
 
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They’d be much better off buying someone like Fisker or Lucid so they don’t have to deal with all the legacy vehicle support and industrial relations.
It would be interesting to see if Apple could buy Lucid from the Saudis. Fisker would probably be easier to buy.
 
It would be interesting to see if Apple could buy Lucid from the Saudis. Fisker would probably be easier to buy.

Why buy a manufacturer when you can simply outsource production? Apple has never really gone all in on vertically integrating production into Apple. Working with a partner that has production experience, such as Magna Steyr, seems more like Apple's approach with electronics. Such a partnership gives them design control coupled with an experienced manufacturer who could cut the time to launch since there is no need to create a facility from scratch.
 
They’d be much better off buying someone like Fisker or Lucid so they don’t have to deal with all the legacy vehicle support and industrial relations.

So instead of 10% of the computer market they would have .01% of the EV market.
Why bother?
Tesla does Fisker, Lucid, Polestar and Rivian yearly production in a couple of days.
 
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Why buy a manufacturer when you can simply outsource production? Apple has never really gone all in on vertically integrating production into Apple. Working with a partner that has production experience, such as Magna Steyr, seems more like Apple's approach with electronics. Such a partnership gives them design control coupled with an experienced manufacturer who could cut the time to launch since there is no need to create a facility from scratch.
That is a better route, though Apple would probably want to partner with a manufacturer that makes cars in the US to be able to get the tax credits (assuming they last for another 5 years). Which makes Rivian a better option since they already make vehicles for others.
 
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So instead of 10% of the computer market they would have .01% of the EV market.
Why bother?
Tesla does Fisker, Lucid, Polestar and Rivian yearly production in a couple of days.
Tesla is probably too toxic of a company for Apple to partner with.
 
LMAO

LIDAR doesn't even work in *heavy* rain!!!!!! Gather the point cloud data from a heavy rain and you'll how noisy the data is. Completely useless.

Humans drive fine in rain with vision. If rain/fog was so bad, humans would pull over until conditions clear as stated in the DMV handbook. Follow the same rules. Simple.

LOL shadows????? That's your silver bullet argument? Give me a break. Not hard to detect shadows. Clearly you're not understanding how the system works.
This is not a competition between lidars and cameras, as they are different technologies with different strengths.

Almost all useful detection technologies (apart from very-short range scanning) use electromagnetic radiation. Frequencies or wavelengths range from tens of gigahertz (radars) to hundreds of nanometers (UV). In practice, there is a gap in between radars and IR, but terahertz technologies are emerging to fill that gap. Detection can be either passive sensing (e.g., cameras) relying on external radiation sources or active with own radiation source (radar, lidar).

In general, smaller wavelength (optical) gives better resolution than longer wavelength (radar) but worse penetration and shorter range. This is dictated by physics (diffraction). Active technologies are useful in distance measurements and independent of external illumination. Passive technologies are simpler (and hence less expensive), and they can be used to detect radiation sources, which is especially useful in thermal radiation (IR).

There is no silver bullet. Camera-only approach sacrifices a lot of depth information. Accurate and reliable depth detection from two or more camera images is possible in most cases but difficult and prone to pattern-related alignment errors. That is one of the purposes of camouflage patterns.

It is true that if the ambient illumination is at a good level, passive optical detection is more robust than active in heavy rain or fog. This is due to the physics of photons reflecting back from rain drops between the transmitter and the target. That is why fog lights exist, the problem is exactly the same. On the other hand, there is no difference in the dark, as the only existing light sources are own headlights, and then we talk about active detection (without the timing benefits).

Another example would be a situation with dark concrete, moderate rain, opposite direction traffic with bright headlights, poor road lighting, and a pedestrian in black clothes. The light from opposite traffic headlights scatters from rain and droplets on the lens cover deteriorating the contrast and essentially hiding the dark object. In this case, a NIR-lidar would be able to see the pedestrian (due to being an active technology, and due to the different wavelength where the black clothes would not be that black anymore), and also a passive IR imager would see the heat from their face. A terahertz radar might also be very useful.

While it is true that humans drive in heavy rain, humans do not necessarily do it at an acceptable risk level. Very few people actually follow the DMV handbook. A multi-modal machine vision system would be much more capable of "seeing" what happens in the environment.

Trying to make it work with optical cameras only is a rational decision from the commercial point of view; cameras are dirt cheap. Discarding the capabilities offered by other technologies, however, reduces the amount of information significantly.

There is no reason to think lidars would be hideously expensive in the future. ToF (time-of-flights) cameras are essentially lidars and cost relatively little. Lidars can be made inexpensive once the volumes scale up. There are also some interesting opportunities if the headlights are modulated and used as an active source for ToF imaging, but this requires some R&D before it happens.

(Disclosure: I am involved in remote sensing industry but not in automotive lidars.)
 
Given that generally has not happened to date I doubt personal liability will go away. In the end, the owner and driver will be held responsible as long as the vehicle lets them be the ultimate decision maker; something I doubt will go away, even with FSD cars, because driving conditions are so variable.
The thinking from level 3 up goes on the lines that the car announces clearly when it is in charge. There should never be any confusion whether the person sitting by the wheel or George is driving. Already now level 3 cars will tell if the weather is too bad.
 
That is a better route, though Apple would probably want to partner with a manufacturer that makes cars in the US to be able to get the tax credits (assuming they last for another 5 years). Which makes Rivian a better option since they already make vehicles for others.

While I agree on the tax consideration, other than making ans for Amazon and an MOU with MB, I don't see where Rivian is making vehicles for other companies to be sold under their brand. In addition, Rivian is relatively new to the scene, unlike Magna Steyr with its long history of working with car manufacturers and experience with EVs manufacturing for Fisker and Jaguar and are looking into building a US manufacuring faclity. If Apple is serious about cars they could easily do one of the "you build and we pay" deals like they did for semiconductors.
 
LMAO

LIDAR doesn't even work in *heavy* rain!!!!!! Gather the point cloud data from a heavy rain and you'll how noisy the data is. Completely useless.

Humans drive fine in rain with vision. If rain/fog was so bad, humans would pull over until conditions clear as stated in the DMV handbook. Follow the same rules. Simple.

LOL shadows????? That's your silver bullet argument? Give me a break. Not hard to detect shadows. Clearly you're not understanding how the system works.
Here we go... because humans drive with vision so can the car? That's the stupid thoughts from an egotistical Elmo. We use forms of radar to determine distance because vision is consistently poor with distance.

And as for shadows, Vision is piss poor at determining distance in shadows. I have seen at least one form of phantom braking because the car is too stupid to ignore shadows cast by an overpass. It's a fun way to scare the **** out of my passengers by turning on AP, passing under a freeway overpass that is casting a shadow, and waiting for the car to drastically slow down.

Another Vision total fail is leaving my driveway and hearing the beeps from it overreacting. It thinks my driveway is steep and I'm about to either hit something or drive off the curve. My driveway is not steep. Other cars with ultrasonic sensors don't have a problem ignoring my average driveway.

Clearly you're just watching demos on YouTube.
 
Doing activities in the real world requires a level of responsibility. It appears from your list that you’re unwilling to take the responsibility required to own and operate a motor vehicle. Luckily for you there are public transport options and ride shares. And let’s not mince words. If you’re in an autonomous vehicle that gets in an accident and kills someone do you suppose you won’t be held liable? Because you will be.
Of course I do take responsibility for all these things today, but I would be much more productive doing something else.

And AFAIK if a vehicle has a certain Level of autonomy, can't recall if it's Level 3 or 4, but no, you won't be held responsible for anything at this point because it'll be able to drive by itself without any human attention. The algorithm, thus the company who wrote it (i.e. Tesla), will be held responsible.
 
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Early reports and unedited videos of FSD 12 paint a different picture. They’ve basically removed all hard-coded instructions. All behavior is learned from videos of human drivers. I don’t call it advanced driver assist when I see it drive across San Francisco without a single intervention. That’s FSD.
The picture they paint is the same picture that Tesla has been painting for, what, seven years? That full autonomy is a year or two away? But the goalposts keep moving because every time they make an advancement they realize that the problem is more complicated than they thought. The main issues of control are addressed, have been for decades. But the hundreds-of-thousands of edge-cases just keep cropping up, and compromising in one spot to ensure reliable functionality results in a fatal accident risk somewhere else. It's a very, very difficult problem.

Like I said, humans are good problem solvers and we'll get there eventually. Possibly within my lifetime. But speaking from literally inside the autonomy industry it's at least a decade off.
 
My interest level in a self-driving car: ZERO. Cars are meant to be driven. If I don't want to drive I can call an Uber, Lyft or taxi or get someone else to drive. If I have to choose between having a Porsche and owning a self-driving vehicle my choice is already done.
Cars are meant for transportation.
 
Fisker seems like a prime acquisition target for Apple.
I think Lucid would be a far better choice. But, I also think that self driving isn’t the main feature of a car. How much does it cost? Is it reliable? Is it repairable? Does it perform well? What is its EV range? How easy is it to find a charger?

Getting distracted by how the self driving works is a terrible mistake. I think that if Apple builds a car the way they build their MacBooks, it will be crap. Cars need to be repairable and maintainable. Today’s Apple products are neither. I am very reluctant to buy a car that is non-repairable; I consider Tesla, currently, to have terrible repairability. Probably the worst in the industry.

I’m waiting for an EV with a rebuild able battery pack, and not this “scrap the car or pay $40,000 when the battery starts to wear.”
 
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Given that generally has not happened to date I doubt personal liability will go away. In the end, the owner and driver will be held responsible as long as the vehicle lets them be the ultimate decision maker; something I doubt will go away, even with FSD cars, because driving conditions are so variable.

Exactly. The notion that personality liability would shift completely to the manufacturer is wrong. That won’t happen.
 
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I think Lucid would be a far better choice. But, I also think that self driving isn’t the main feature of a car. How much does it cost? Is it reliable? Is it repairable? Does it perform well? What is its EV range? How easy is it to find a charger?

Getting distracted by how the self driving works is a terrible mistake. I think that if Apple builds a car the way they build their MacBooks, it will be crap. Cars need to be repairable and maintainable. Today’s Apple products are neither. I am very reluctant to buy a car that is non-repairable; I consider Tesla, currently, to have terrible repairability. Probably the worst in the industry.

Totally agree. I seriously doubt that fully autonomous vehicles will be possible any time soon… if ever.
 
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