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Apple Car Autonomous Driving Scaled Down, Launch Planned for 2028

Mac Fly (film) said:
Imagine the car door handles were flush 2" circles designed to be pushed in (sensing the slightest pressure inward—not wind) and in return the door pops out to me you, assisted by a motor for door opening in all manner of conditions. None of this see-saw flappy paddle nonsense. Just a basic button that works.
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Imagine a car where the malfunction and you can't open a door, all you get is a helpful sound to let you know something went wrong. Form has to follow function.

Part of the problem with a lot of these new displays is the have to be read to be understood, since there is no mechanical or tactical feedback. A door handle provides an instant clue that says "Pull here to open door" to anyone and a mechanical mechanism can be opened by a competent road side service locksmith. I've even opend doors with a coat hanger.
 
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Apple could start with electric bicycles - would probably be very popular in cities.
Then work themselves up, as from iPhones to iPadPro.
They don’t have to be fully self driving either, but with a great operationsystem.
 
jlc1978 said:
Imagine a car where the malfunction and you can't open a door, all you get is a helpful sound to let you know something went wrong. Form has to follow function.

Part of the problem with a lot of these new displays is the have to be read to be understood, since there is no mechanical or tactical feedback. A door handle provides an instant clue that says "Pull here to open door" to anyone and a mechanical mechanism can be opened by a competent road side service locksmith. I've even opend doors with a coat hanger.
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I could see Apple doing auto open doors with a button on door as backup (kinda like the X). That would be kinda cool.
 
ChrisA said:
…The switchover will be like when we went from film to digital cameras. After a long, slow ramp-up, the speed of the transition hit a tipping point and then it happened overnight. What is holding up the transition now is the price of batteries. There simply are not enough factories making batteries yet. This will change soon and many are under construcction.
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The switchover wont happen without a massively improved charging infrastructure which supports people who have no home/work-charging capabilities; a sub-$20k EV does nothing for someone who street parks or lives in an apartment complex. Then US power grid is not up top the task of mass EV adoption. California regularly suffers from black/brownouts during the summer or other high-demand times so have fun with that ICE-ban. Instead of stupidly focusing on EVs alone, we should have been pushing hybrids.
 
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darngooddesign said:
The switchover wont happen without a massively improved charging infrastructure which supports people who have no home/work-charging capabilities; a sub-$20k EV does nothing for someone who street parks or lives in an apartment complex. Then US power grid is not up top the task of mass EV adoption. California regularly suffers from black/brownouts during the summer or other high-demand times so have fun with that ICE-ban. Instead of stupidly focusing on EVs alone, we should have been pushing hybrids.
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Aren't hybrids more complex for little gain?
 
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diamond.g said:
Aren't hybrids more complex for little gain?
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Not really, depending on the use pattern. I have friends with PHEV's who find tehm perfect for day to day use. The range is long enough to make their daily commute or shopping trips all electric and then charge at work or at home. The only need gas for extended trips and wind up buying a tank every few months; unless the go on holiday and then it's all gas unles where they go offers charging.
 
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diamond.g said:
Aren't hybrids more complex for little gain?
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Hybrid SUVs like the CRV get 35MPG+, the new Prius gets 60MPG+. We could have many hybrids from a single 300 mile EV SUV. Mass adoption of hybrids, which are far more attainable than EVs, and usable by everyone who don’t have home charging capabilities shoudl have been the way forward, but we are wasting rare earth battery materials on fewer EVs which only the more affluent could afford. At least California was smart enough to limit their ICE ban so that both Hybrids can be sold next to EVs.
 
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darngooddesign said:
Hybrid SUVs like the CRV get 35MPG+, the new Prius gets 60MPG+. We could have many hybrids from a single 300 mile EV SUV. Mass adoption of hybrids, which are far more attainable than EVs, and usable by everyone who don’t have home charging capabilities shoudl have been the way forward, but we are wasting rare earth battery materials on fewer EVs which only the more affluent could afford. At least California was smart enough to limit their ICE ban so that both Hybrids can be sold next to EVs.
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You still get both of the fails of each tech with not that great of gain (IMO).
 
diamond.g said:
You still get both of the fails of each tech with not that great of gain (IMO).
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Or you get the benefits of both; which are increased efficiency of EV driving for most of your day to day and a massive fueling infrastructure with short fill up times.

The gain of a hybrid-first agenda would be doubling the fuel efficiency of significantly more cars for significantly more people instead of a smaller number of EVs which have to be heavy due to larger batteries. PlugIn Hybrids would mean EV benefits for the majority of daily driving, especially the least efficient parts like stop-and-go commuting, without range anxiety. This doesn't even account for increased wear of road surfaces and tires due to EVs which are a lot heavier than the equivalent hybrid.

EVs primarily benefit affluent home-owners and pushing an EV-only future is largely a classist agenda.
 
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Mac Fly (film) said:
Apple doesn't have to control the car market. Right now they sell zero cars. If they make a good car it should sell accordingly and with a healthy profit knowing Apple. Their first three years they'll probably do an artificially limited run to focus on quality. They will likely never aim for Tesla numbers, rather focus on more niche high end market to be associated with the likes of premium brands to establish that image for themselves in the car space.
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We were talking about Tesla in that exchange.
 
Apple needs to focus on assisted driving. The big wave and I mean Big wave of senior divers is upon us. If the new vehicles could assist and prolong driving safely for this large group of folks, a huge win. Drivers of age in most cases do not need a fully autonomous vehicle. A vehicle that assists them as their skills change. Allow this group many more years of independence. The analogy, Apple Watch big win, health. Not to mention, a good deal of these folks have the resources to own an assisted vehicle.
 
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npmacuser5 said:
Apple needs to focus on assisted driving. The big wave and I mean Big wave of senior divers is upon us. If the new vehicles could assist and prolong driving safely for this large group of folks, a huge win. Drivers of age in most cases do not need a fully autonomous vehicle. A vehicle that assists them as their skills change. Allow this group many more years of independence. The analogy, Apple Watch big win, health. Not to mention, a good deal of these folks have the resources to own an assisted vehicle.
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Maybe Apple could come up with a means to activate turn signals for folks changing lanes and not using them...
 
jlc1978 said:
Imagine a car where the malfunction and you can't open a door, all you get is a helpful sound to let you know something went wrong. Form has to follow function.

Part of the problem with a lot of these new displays is the have to be read to be understood, since there is no mechanical or tactical feedback. A door handle provides an instant clue that says "Pull here to open door" to anyone and a mechanical mechanism can be opened by a competent road side service locksmith. I've even opend doors with a coat hanger.
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Well, there's that.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
...The likes of Tesla, Polestar, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, BYD will be further accomplished in the sector by 2028...

...I certainly wouldn't want a car that is controlled by Siri which has been abysmal on other Apple devices since 2012 and voice assistants are an important part of modern EV's. I would never trust any car to drive itself either, let alone one with software that often fails to set a simple timer lol...
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My reaction is...

1. You post is sorta weird as you hide Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz between a bunch of far less reputable brands that compete in different markets. I'd hope that Apple could make something that performs better than Chinese junk. Or, simply not release it.

2. Personally I don't want a Tesla because the controls are all rubbish. I have zero problem with traditional instruments. Tesla's all about giving fanatics a high-tech kinda feel but IMO when the masses have EVs, they'll be a LOT cheaper and more traditional. Apple's a tech company so I expect it to have more tech but Tesla's features feel like junk (e.g. a friend's back door handles were broken after a week and simple things like putting the window down have been unnecessarily reinvented). I would expect Apple to (like the original iPhone) have things feel a lot more slick/natural rather than techie / gimmickie.
 
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djgamble said:
My reaction is...

1. You post is sorta weird as you hide Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz between a bunch of far less reputable brands that compete in different markets. I'd hope that Apple could make something that performs better than Chinese junk. Or, simply not release it.
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I included BYD in my very brief list of EV's because they are fast becoming a brand in Asia/Europe that are unsettling the bigger brands within the market. The BYD Seal for example is already being compared to the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Tesla in regards to quality and many car reviewers testing them are suggesting they may be £30k-£40k cheaper, but this is not being demonstrated by the physical product. They are almost on par with the more expensive brands. I drive an Audi Q4 e-tron myself, and tested quite a few EV's including the BMW iX3, which you'd probably say is 'Chinese junk' as its manufactured there. I tested the Mercedes EQC and for me, the Audi offered the best drive and a more premium cabin feel, for me. The BYD wasn't an option last August, although it is too small for my needs. I think it is naive to suggest because BYD are Chinese, they are 'junk' as that simply isn't the case. BYD of course are a battery company first and foremost and are using some of the most current technologies, which is why they are a major supplier to Tesla and also make consumer electronics we are familar with, most notably the Apple iPad. They are definitely a brand to watch in the EV sector and their sales are expected to increase 10 fold over the next 12 months. They are perhaps the closest to Tesla right now for sales.
djgamble said:
2. Personally I don't want a Tesla because the controls are all rubbish. I have zero problem with traditional instruments. Tesla's all about giving fanatics a high-tech kinda feel but IMO when the masses have EVs, they'll be a LOT cheaper and more traditional. Apple's a tech company so I expect it to have more tech but Tesla's features feel like junk (e.g. a friend's back door handles were broken after a week and simple things like putting the window down have been unnecessarily reinvented). I would expect Apple to (like the original iPhone) have things feel a lot more slick/natural rather than techie / gimmickie.
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Tesla isn't for me either, I can appreciate the software and the way they have pushed other companies to innovate harder, but the lack of physical buttons in the cabin are a major criticism. The fact they have put indicator buttons on the steering wheel instead of using storks on their later cars also shows a complete lack of foresight for countries where roundabouts exist is also extraordinary as they have produced for these markets for many years now.

One thing I wonder with Apple entering the car industry is how they will manage features. With iPhones, iPads and every other consumer electronic they produce, they have a strategy to drip feed features to spread the releases over multiple years. This happens even if competitors release products with these features years before Apple. With modern cars they are packed full of features and this is expected at launch to match the competition. The car industry as a lot more competitive than the phone and computer markets and consumers will aim to get the most for their money.
 
Mac Fly (film) said:
How?
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They've invested billions into the FSD project.

400k FSD users. Assume 100k paid with ASP $8k = $800m

Assume other 300k FSD users are subscriptions. Assume avg revenue from each customer is is $150/mo. Assume 8 mo average before customer cancels = $360m

Assume 200k out of 400k needed HW3 computer swap @ $1500 a piece = -$300m

800 + 360 - 300 = $860m then subtract cost of Dojo project/engineers/HW4/HW5 chip design/NVIDIA datacenter/etc....

They're not going to break even if they are stuck in FSD beta forever.
 
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