Apple Car Latest: Kia Talks With Potential Partners About Vehicle Assembly in Georgia, While Apple Seeks Supply Deals With Japanese Automakers

[DrV]

The "revolutionary" part would most likely be the autonomous driving tech.

That would be revolutionary, but...

Just to calibrate the expectations agains the real world: There are some SAE Level 3 autonomous vehicles available. Audi A8 was the first one two or three years ago, but Audi actually withdrew it. Just right now some manufacturers are making their level 3 cars available. M-B and BMW are rolling out theirs in Europe, Hyundai/Kia in South Korea, and Honda in Japan. In the US, the most likely candidates for level 3 are Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac SuperCruise, but the schedule remains uncertain.

Level 3 means the driver may take their eyes off the road and the car will warn well beforehand (10 seconds) if driver intervention is needed. The functionality is restricted to certain geographic regions and conditions. It seems that all level 3 cars have a similar set of requirements: available on select highways, under 60 km/h (37 mph), over +4 °C (39 °F), no adverse conditions.

Level 4 (driver may take a nap, but the functionality is geographically and/or otherwise limited) is coming within the next few years, but it will be very limited geographically and otherwise. Getting to the "drives autonomously majority of the time spent in cars globally" phase takes several years, probably more than a decade.

Achieving real FSD (level 5, no driver) will take decades, and it requires large systemic changes in road traffic.

Everyone knows an autonomous car would be very, very, very lucrative for its manufacturer. Nobody knows how to make one. This is a field where billions of currency units are used to fuel the R&D, and it is a field where some of the brightest people on the planet are dedicated to find the answers.

So, what would be Apple's competitive edge in autonomous driving? My guess is that Apple is aiming at a well-designed state-of-the-art EV with highly polished user experience. The car will be loaded with electronic aids, but it will not bring anything technologically new. Remember, Apple very seldom introduces anything really new. iPhone was not disruptive because it would have been the first touchscreen phone — it wasn't — but because it offered a (relatively speaking) great user experience or users and developers.

 

[Reason077]

Achieving real FSD (level 5, no driver) will take decades

Possibly. But there are certainly some well-qualified experts who are optimistic that it's coming quicker than that. Given the current rate of progress, it certainly seems likely that we will get 99% of the way there (ie: self-driving system that requires some degree of supervision in some environments) within a few years.

and it requires large systemic changes in road traffic.

No, by definition, Level 5 autonomy doesn't require any changes to roads or traffic. A level 5 self-driving system can interact with any road or traffic condition just as a human driver would.

 

[now i see it]

why does this sound like it will go down in history as the biggest Boondogle of all time?

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

The "revolutionary" part would most likely be the autonomous driving tech.

No, Apple's car will not be fully autonomous. It will have autonomous hardware and will get autonomous updates over time, but a consumer car with no steering wheel (full autonomy) is perhaps 15 years away. Or more. Despite Elon's magical thinking Apple's car, like Tesla's, will in fact be able to be driven. There will be nothing revolutionary about Apple car, Apple will try to give owners a good experience.

I do in some ways like Tesla's latest gamified (my description) Model S steering wheel. Stalks for indicators replaced with buttons. Looks clean, airy; provides great visibility. Apple should consider going down this route. Would need to test drive, but looks promising. Apple is not going to spend the next 10-15+ years trying to perfect autonomy and not release. Apple car will have a steering wheel. For me this defines full autonomy—does it have a steering wheel? And the rumours of Apple not targeting the consumer market with their car are in fact horeshit.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

why does this sound like it will go down in history as the biggest Boondogle of all time?

Because you're judging the messiness of product development and not the end product. When the end product comes is at this point guesswork. Keep this hire in mind too.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

I think you guys are looking too much into the “Apple is over reaching” mindset. iPhone was birthed from happenstance, as they stumbled upon the development of the iPad. They’re bringing something to the car/robotaxi space. It could be a service that makes the Uber/Lyft model seem outdated or unnecessary. It could be a service where people breathe a gasp of fresh air knowing they don’t spend a third of their pay into financing, maintaining and insuring a car.

Actually you are saying what i said many posts before about cars - but that thread was about HOW to make something break-through AGAIN which is not related to the current eco-system.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

No, Apple's car will not be fully autonomous. It will have autonomous hardware and will get autonomous updates over time, but a consumer car with no steering wheel (full autonomy) is perhaps 15 years away. Or more. Despite Elon's magical thinking Apple's car, like Tesla's, will in fact be able to be driven. There will be nothing revolutionary about Apple car, Apple will try to give owners a good experience.

I do in some ways like Tesla's latest gamified (my description) Model S steering wheel. Stalks for indicators replaced with buttons. Looks clean, airy; provides great visibility. Apple should consider going down this route. Would need to test drive, but looks promising. Apple is not going to spend the next 10-15+ years trying to perfect autonomy and not release. Apple car will have a steering wheel. For me this defines full autonomy—does it have a steering wheel? And the rumours of Apple not targeting the consumer market with their car are in fact horeshit.

A steering wheel only hinders visibility of instruments - if at all
From a safety standpoint this steering wheel is BS - its for an airplane not a car.
This ist just attention grabbing from elon!

Someone who has ever reached out for the steering wheel in an „emergency“ situation knows - that thing is not good - maybe when fsd 5 is really up and running.

 

[sw1tcher]

What happens to this autonomous Apple EV when iCloud has issues? 🤔

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

A steering wheel only hinders visibility of instruments - if at all
From a safety standpoint this steering wheel is BS - its for an airplane not a car.
This ist just attention grabbing from elon!

I'd have to test it.

 

[doelcm82]

Achieving real FSD (level 5, no driver) will take decades, and it requires large systemic changes in road traffic.

By the time level 5 arrives, it will be a non-event. We'll be so accustomed to cars driving us in almost every situation that removing the almost won't seem like much of an achievement.

 

[markgpearse]

The most requested Apple Car Siri request...

Hey Siri... drive me to the nearest emergency room.

 

[macsimcon]

I love the idea of a subscription service which would take the kids to/from school, or be waiting to take me home when I come out of the grocery store, a movie theater, a bar, or a party. A million electric Apple Cars could do that, and I might be willing to pay for that if it meant eliminating a car payment, insurance payment, registration, and gas...particularly when I can do more productive things with my time during the car trips. But...

Apple has to be assuming we will be returning to normal in five years. I think that's a huge assumption. It's pretty safe to say that, if we never go back to normal, creating a fleet of autonomous cars becomes much less profitable. I would not subscribe to such a service now because I seldom leave the house.

 

[macsimcon]

Achieving real FSD (level 5, no driver) will take decades, and it requires large systemic changes in road traffic.

Have you watched any of the latest Tesla Autopilot beta videos? The self-driving is impressive and getting better all the time. While it's not yet ready, I think it's years away, not decades. Moreover, only Elon is dumb enough to choose cameras over LIDAR, so we might find Apple's autonomous cars much more capable and reliable than Tesla's Autopilot.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

Really Apple a KiA you could have done so much better.

I wonder if you realize how silly you sound?

They need an ASSEMBLY PRODUCTION LINE.
Do you think you can tell the difference between an iPhone assembled at FOXCONN & one assembled at Wisitron??
No??
Yeah, that’s because there’s no difference.
People here may get into a tizzy over whether their iPhone has an Intel modem vs. a Qualcomm modem... but even the nitpickiest of the the nitpickiest have never ever ever claimed that one assembly line bests another. The idea is ludicrous. They are built to EXACT specs- that don’t differ assembly line to assembly line.

When Apple starts its fleet service & have a zillion identical vehicles on the road... even if they eventually have 20 different car manufacturers renting them assembly line space- neither you, nor I, nor anyone else will know when we get in our automated ride that was sent to our house- whether that particular vehicle’s final assembly was done at a Honda plant, a BMW plant, a KIA plant, a Jaguar plant, etc.
How on earth would we know- if the end product is precisely identical??

 

[Little Endian]

Hyundai & Kia have come a long way as far as product reliability goes but really they are still not up to the level of Toyota or Honda reliability. Think being able to last 200K-400k+ miles and 15-20 plus years with just basic maintenance and few repairs. Nissan & Mitsubishi are crap sounds like a recipe for disaster having Kia assemble cars with 2 of the worst Japanese automakers supplying parts.

 

[Williesleg]

This is not getting off to a good start. I'll bet they don't have a single car to sell by 2030.

 

[AppleShareholder]

I wonder if you realize how silly you sound?

They need an ASSEMBLY PRODUCTION LINE.
Do you think you can tell the difference between an iPhone assembled at FOXCONN & one assembled at Wisitron??
No??
Yeah, that’s because there’s no difference.
People here may get into a tizzy over whether their iPhone has an Intel modem vs. a Qualcomm modem... but even the nitpickiest of the the nitpickiest have never ever ever claimed that one assembly line bests another. The idea is ludicrous. They are built to EXACT specs- that don’t differ assembly line to assembly line.

When Apple starts its fleet service & have a zillion identical vehicles on the road... even if they eventually have 20 different car manufacturers renting them assembly line space- neither you, nor I, nor anyone else will know when we get in our automated ride that was sent to our house- whether that particular vehicle’s final assembly was done at a Honda plant, a BMW plant, a KIA plant, a Jaguar plant, etc.
How on earth would we know- if the end product is precisely identical??

This is horrendously incorrect. Apple's "designs" are limited by what the manufacturer's manufacturing process (Which consists of hundreds of steps) can do. It would be horribly inefficient for Apple to make a design and have Hyundai/Kia build an entirely new manufacturing process to accomodate Apple's design. Then there's a huge risk that the yields for this process aren't that good. Even if Apple does "design" anything, it would be highly derivative of what Hyundai/Kia is already doing to mitigate any ramp-up risk and control costs.

Do you know about the Model 3 Ramp-up manufacturing hell back in 2018 - 2019? Yeah, that's what happens when you have an entirely new design and thus a completely new manufacturing process to accommodate your new design. It was a miracle that Tesla was able to improve yields so fast, because they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Do you seriously think Apple is going to risk tens of billions of dollars and cause years of delays by asking Hyundai/Kia to create a brand new manufacturing process for them that may or may not successfully ramp-up? Or do you think they're going to take what Hyundai/Kia already build with the E-GMP platform and run with it? My money is on the latter.
Hyundai/Kia already did the hard part of ramping-up, ironing out problems in the process, and manufacturing at scale. There is no reason for Apple is reinvent the wheel for absolutely no gain.

Apple will have control over some design elements such as the size and other minor details, but the underlying technology of the car will be from Hyundai/Kia. This isn't some simple low-margin assembly manufacturing like Foxconn. Auto manufacturing is high-skilled and far more complex. What the manufacturer's process can do is what Apple is buying, and there's not much Apple can change. Think about ordering pizza from Dominos or Papa John's. The manufacturer (Dominos) tells you what you can change. In this analogy, Apple is the customer ordering a pizza from dominoes, but the technology to create that pizza comes from Hyundai.
I think you're trying to justify paying 6-figures for a Hyundai car.

 

[AppleShareholder]

Hyundai & Kia have come a long way as far as product reliability goes but really they are still not up to the level of Toyota or Honda reliability. Think being able to last 200K-400k+ miles and 15-20 plus years with just basic maintenance and few repairs. Nissan & Mitsubishi are crap sounds like a recipe for disaster having Kia assemble cars with 2 of the worst Japanese automakers supplying parts.

You mean Toyota and Honda, the 2 companies that put faulty Takata airbags in their vehicles and led to the biggest recalls in automobile history?

Also, I want to know what makes you think you know more than Apple about this subject. When Apple is selecting suppliers, they don't care about affinity, brand, or even if the supplier is an enemy. Apple cares about which supplier has the technology to produce the highest quality parts at a reasonable price, hence why they still use Samsung panels and memory components. It's entirely objective.
Have you considered that you're wrong about Hyundai/Kia and that Apple might be right? Apple has a team of highly-paid automotive experts whose job is to analyze the manufacturing technologies of all the major automakers to determine which one creates the highest quality parts. And you're saying they're wrong?
Apple's take on this situation is correct. As a big car enthusiast, I always thought that current Hyundai/Kia's problems were more due to brand than actual quality issues. Apple picking Hyundai/Kia over everyone else confirms my suspicion.
Seems that many members on this board care more about brand than actual quality. Apple can release the worst car ever with panel gaps all around and paint job issues and people on this board would eat it up.

 

[AppleShareholder]

Have you watched any of the latest Tesla Autopilot beta videos? The self-driving is impressive and getting better all the time. While it's not yet ready, I think it's years away, not decades. Moreover, only Elon is dumb enough to choose cameras over LIDAR, so we might find Apple's autonomous cars much more capable and reliable than Tesla's Autopilot.

lol... LIDAR is a crutch that's doomed to fail. Why do you think Waymo hasn't made much progress despite starting their services much earlier than Tesla started working on FSD? LIDAR doesn't work in areas with rain or snow. It can't understand what it's seeing, so the car can't make proper decisions when it encounters a new situation.

Tesla will get to Level 5 autonomy faster than anyone else and roll out robotaxis. There's a reason why all of Tesla's competitors from Waymo to Toyota and Ford are trying to take shots at Tesla - They're all frightened.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

This is horrendously incorrect. Apple's "designs" are limited by what the manufacturer's manufacturing process (Which consists of hundreds of steps) can do. It would be horribly inefficient for Apple to make a design and have Hyundai/Kia build an entirely new manufacturing process to accomodate Apple's design. Then there's a huge risk that the yields for this process aren't that good. Even if Apple does "design" anything, it would be highly derivative of what Hyundai/Kia is already doing to mitigate any ramp-up risk and control costs.

Do you know about the Model 3 Ramp-up manufacturing hell back in 2018 - 2019? Yeah, that's what happens when you try to make a new car with a new manufacturing process to accommodate your new specs. It was a miracle that Tesla was able to improve yields so fast, because they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Do you seriously think Apple is going to risk tens of billions of dollars and cause years of delays by asking Hyundai/Kia to create a brand new manufacturing process for them that may or may not successfully ramp-up? Or do you think they're going to take what Hyundai/Kia already build with the E-GMP platform and run with it? My money is on the latter.

Apple will have control over some design elements such as the size and other minor details, but the underlying technology of the car will be from Hyundai/Kia. This isn't some simple low-margin assembly manufacturing like Foxconn. Auto manufacturing is high-skilled and far more complex. What the manufacturer's process can do is what Apple is buying, and there's not much Apple can change. Think about ordering pizza from Dominos or Papa John's. The manufacturer (Dominos) tells you what you can change. In this analogy, Apple is the customer ordering a pizza from dominoes, but the technology to create that pizza comes from Hyundai.
I think you're trying to justify paying 6-figures for a Hyundai car.

You automatically show me that I can discount your opinion when you mention me paying 6 figures for an Apple Car assembled by Kia... it shows that you don’t have the vaguest idea what the product is!
Even some of the least savvy readers have surmised that this is NOT a consumer product.
Apple is almost certainly going to sell Car as a service, not something you own.
ZERO tales of “getting a bad one”.
Nobody messing one up with aftermarket parts, because Apple is the only one servicing them, etc.
The idea is actually quite genius!!

As far as the rest of your post- utter garbage.
3 years + $3 billion should be plenty to allay your bizarre fear that the only thing a Kia assembly line could produce is a Kia clone.

 

[AppleShareholder]

You automatically show me that I can discount your opinion when you mention me paying 6 figures for an Apple Car assembled by Kia... it shows that you don’t have the vaguest idea what the product is!
Even some of the least savvy readers have surmised that this is NOT a consumer product.
Apple is almost certainly going to sell Car as a service, not something you own.
ZERO tales of “getting a bad one”.
Nobody messing one up with aftermarket parts, because Apple is the only one servicing them, etc.
The idea is actually quite genius!!

As far as the rest of your post- utter garbage.
3 years + $3 billion should be plenty to allay your bizarre fear that the only thing a Kia assembly line could produce is a Kia clone.

You're funny if you think Kia is taking on just a simple assembly manufacturing role. If that was all that it was, then wouldn't Apple go with lower-cost Chinese assemblers, you know, like the ones assembling Nio, XPENG, and Geely vehicles?
Moreover, our favorite Apple analyst Ming Chi-Kuo even said the E-GMP platform will be used, so I'm not sure where you're getting that Apple will be designing everything from scratch, unless you think they're going to sell a Model 3-specced car at $5 million at a huge risk that the new manufacturing process may not even ramp-up successfully.

I'll repeat - Anytime you make a brand new design that's non-derivative from what the manufacturer has, an entirely new manufacturing process has to be made. Apple can make very, very slight modifications to the manufacturing process to call it "custom-designed", but the underlying technology comes from the manufacturer.
With a new manufacturing process, you run the huge risk of low yields and poor ramp-up times. Apple is not going to risk that. They will take what the manufacturer already designed and do very slight and minor changes to call it "Apple-designed" or whatever. That way, they can pretend they designed everything and they don't run into yield problems.

In high-level manufacturing (Not assembly manufacturing), with the exception of Tesla (Because Elon is a crazy genius, and Tesla is their own manufacturer), literally no one goes to a manufacturer and tells them to build a new manufacturing process for a completely new custom part or product. NO ONE. That is not how the business world runs. In fact, Tesla tried doing this before they started manufacturing things themselves, and all the suppliers told them to take a hike. Their current processes couldn't accommodate Tesla's design requests, and they would have to come up with an entirely new process for all of Tesla's demands.

In any high-level or advanced product development, the manufacturer is responsible for product development and creating a reference design, and any "custom designs" from customers like Apple are derivatives of the this reference design so that much of the manufacturing process can be maintained and ramp-up and yield risks are reduced (Ex. Model Y shares most of its parts and has very similar manufacturing processes as Model 3. Only differences are the potential structural 4680 battery packs and new aluminum die-cast for the rear body). Why do you think Apple and Samsung phones have very similar quality panels despite Apple claiming they "custom designed" their displays? It's because the underlying technology of the panels are the same (Same Samsung diamond-pentile with Y-OCTA tech, etc.).

So why is high-level manufacturing more stringent with design rules than low-level assembly manufacturing? Because the former relies more on precise mechanical movements while the other relies on humans putting parts together. The manufacturing process in high-level manufacturing has to be engineered so that the machines coordinate well together, but any changes to the process can screw up yields.
With low-level assembly manufacturing, a person can just stuff a component in the right socket. Doesn't have to be exact on the first try.

I don't really care if you want to pay $150k for a Hyundai or Kia. Go for it. There's nothing wrong with them. They make very high quality cars and are underappreciated by people who love branding.
I'd rather buy a Model S Plaid. At least I know I'm paying $150k for unique technology actually created by Tesla and not by some 3rd party.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

You're funny if you think Kia is taking on just a simple assembly manufacturing role. If that was all that it was, then wouldn't Apple go with lower-cost Chinese assemblers, you know, like the ones assembling Nio, XPENG, and Geely vehicles?
Moreover, our favorite Apple analyst Ming Chi-Kuo even said the E-GMP platform will be used, so I'm not sure where you're getting that Apple will be designing everything from scratch, unless you think they're going to sell a Model 3-specced car at $5 million at a huge risk that the new manufacturing process may not even ramp-up successfully.

I'll repeat - Anytime you make a brand new design that's non-derivative from what the manufacturer has, an entirely new manufacturing process has to be made. Apple can make very, very slight modifications to the manufacturing process to call it "custom-designed", but the underlying technology comes from the manufacturer.
With a new manufacturing process, you run the huge risk of low yields and poor ramp-up times. Apple is not going to risk that. They will take what the manufacturer already designed and do very slight and minor changes to call it "Apple-designed" or whatever. That way, they can pretend they designed everything and they don't run into yield problems.

In high-level manufacturing (Not assembly manufacturing), with the exception of Tesla (Because Elon is a crazy genius, and Tesla is their own manufacturer), literally no one goes to a manufacturer and tells them to build a new manufacturing process for a completely new custom part or product. NO ONE. That is not how the business world runs. In fact, Tesla tried doing this before they started manufacturing things themselves, and all the suppliers told them to take a hike. Their current processes couldn't accommodate Tesla's design requests, and they would have to come up with an entirely new process for all of Tesla's demands.

In any high-level or advanced product development, the manufacturer is responsible for product development and creating a reference design, and any "custom designs" from customers like Apple are derivatives of the this reference design so that much of the manufacturing process can be maintained and ramp-up and yield risks are reduced. Why do you think Apple and Samsung phones have very similar quality panels despite Apple claiming they "custom designed" their displays? It's because the underlying technology of the panels are the same (Same Samsung diamond-pentile with Y-OCTA tech, etc.).

So why is high-level manufacturing more stringent with design rules than low-level assembly manufacturing? Because the former relies more on precise mechanical movements while the other relies on humans putting parts together. The manufacturing process in high-level manufacturing has to be engineered so that the machines coordinate well together, but any changes to the process can screw up yields.
With low-level assembly manufacturing, a person can just stuff a component in the right socket. Doesn't have to be exact on the first try.

I don't really care if you want to pay $150k for a Hyundai or Kia. Go for it. There's nothing wrong with them. They make very high quality cars and are underappreciated by people who love branding.
I'd rather buy a Model S Plaid. At least I know I'm paying $150k for unique technology actually created by Tesla and not by some 3rd party.

Lol, a swing and a miss!!! 🤣

Bookmark this post.
If you turn out to be right (you’re not) & Apple sells Car direct to consumers, for $150k- I’ll buy you one on day one!
But if I’m right & they make Car a service... you buy me a donut, deal?

Btw, if you were right (again... you’re not), & Apple has decided to make a Kia clone- lol, how could they ALSO be in talks with Japanese manufacturers??
Japanese manufacturers can build Kias? 😂
It’s clear to most everyone but you, apparently, that they are only interested in the assembly line- NOT the design acumen of the companies they are in talks with.

 

[AppleShareholder]

Lol, a swing and a miss!!! 🤣

Bookmark this post.
If you turn out to be right (you’re not) & Apple sells Car direct to consumers, for $150k- I’ll buy you one on day one!
But if I’m right & they make Car a service... you buy me a donut, deal?

Btw, if you were right (again... you’re not), & Apple has decided to make a Kia clone- lol, how could they ALSO be in talks with Japanese manufacturers??
Japanese manufacturers can build Kias? 😂
It’s clear to most everyone but you, apparently, that they are only interested in the assembly line- NOT the design acumen of the companies they are in talks with.

The $150k price-point was a joke about Apple's high pricetag, though I wouldn't be surprised if they do sell one with that high. I don't know what the price is going to be, but I doubt it'll be cheap, and I bet Teslas will still be superior at the same price point.

As for the Japanese suppliers agreement, none of this changes my argument. Apple is still looking around, but my bet is on Hyundai / Kia, as they built a solid EV platform. It doesn't mean all parts will come from Kia. The EV drivetrain, yes. The airbags and steering wheels or other things? Who knows. Maybe they'll use Takata for the airbags? There are many car component suppliers in Japan, so I don't see it as a surprise that Apple is in talks with them. It most certainly does not mean Apple will custom design a brand new tech and have the suppliers cater to it. Tesla already tried that and suppliers told them to piss off.
Apple will either take the reference design or make a derivative design. The underlying technology comes from the suppliers.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

The $150k price-point was a joke about Apple's high pricetag, though I wouldn't be surprised if they do sell one with that high. I don't know what the price is going to be, but I doubt it'll be cheap, and I bet Teslas will still be superior at the same price point.

As for the Japanese suppliers agreement, none of this changes my argument. Apple is still looking around, but my bet is on Hyundai / Kia, as they built a solid EV platform. It doesn't mean all parts will come from Kia. The EV drivetrain, yes. The airbags and steering wheels or other things? Who knows. Maybe they'll use Takata for the airbags? There are many car component suppliers in Japan, so I don't see it as a surprise that Apple is in talks with them. It most certainly does not mean Apple will custom design a brand new tech and have the suppliers cater to it. Tesla already tried that and suppliers told them to piss off.
Apple will either take the reference design or make a derivative design. The underlying technology comes from the suppliers.

Lol, you really really really are NOT getting it!!!

How much does it cost you to own HBO?
Oh... you don’t “buy” HBO- it’s a subscription service.
How much does it cost to “buy” Über?
Oh... you don’t “buy” Über; it’s a service.
What is the price of an Apple Car?
Oh... you don’t “buy” an Apple Car, because it’ll be a service.

Is any of that tracking with you??

THERE WILL NOT BE A “PRICE” OF AN APPLE CAR.

I can’t put that more bluntly: I feel like I said that plain- but then you’ll say something asinine like: “I wouldn't be surprised if they do sell one with that high. I don't know what the price is going to be, but I doubt it'll be cheap” & it makes me want to pull my hair out. You’re super frustrating to conversation with- you drift off the rails, BAD.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

As long as we don't have to charge it via Lightning cable...

Lightning, but higher kW. If Tesla were responsible for naming it, it'd be called Super Lightning or Mega Lightning.

I can't think of what Apple would call it. Lightning 2? New Lightning?