Apple Car Production Again Linked to Kia Motor's US Plant in Georgia

[sirozha]

I don't know what you guys are expecting from Apple Car. What exactly do you think it should be?

1. Can it be faster than a comparable Tesla? I don't think so unless Apple has figured out how to bend the laws of physics.
2. Can it have a better self-driving system than Tesla? Yes, it can. But that has nothing to do with who manufactures the car itself.
3. Can it be more luxurious than Tesla? It certainly can, but Hyundai/Kia knows how to make luxury cars. I know a lot of people here feel that it's beneath themselves to stop by a Hyundai or Kia dealership and look (or god forbid test-drive) their higher-end cars. But those who have realize that Hyundai and Kia know how to make luxury interiors and great ride quality, let alone gorgeous looking shapes.
4. Can it have a better battery range than Tesla? Hardly, as Tesla is on the cutting edge of the battery tech. Then again, Apple would have to partner with LG, Panasonic, or other battery tech leader for batteries comparable with the ones used by Tesla, which is what Tesla has been doing for many years now.
5. Can it be more reliable than Tesla? It should, and Hyundai/Kia make very reliable cars nowdays. In fact, in reliability terms, theirs are ones of the most reliable cars compared to any other brand.
6. Can it be better built than Tesla? It better be! Again, Hyundai/Kia's initial quality pretty much beats any other car manufacturer.

So, what's the problem with Hyundai/Kia being the OEM for Apple Car? One word: PRESTIGE. The Apple Car built by Hyundai/Kia could be twice as good as Tesla, but it will be seen as uncool in the eyes of Apple fanboys. And that is the biggest problem with this rumor.

 

[DanTSX]

Sadly, Touch screens and badges sell cars these days. It shouldn’t be any wonder (or complaint) that Apple is shopping the Koreans.

You “ew, KIA,” folks should take a closer look at where automotive brands more palatable to your image are made, and by who. Automobile purity tests would be hilarious if they were not so sad.

 

[DanTSX]

I don't know what you guys are expecting from Apple Car. What exactly do you think it should be?

1. Can it be faster than a comparable Tesla? I don't think so unless Apple has figured out how to bend the laws of physics.
2. Can it have a better self-driving system than Tesla? Yes, it can. But that has nothing to do with who manufactures the car itself.
3. Can it be more luxurious than Tesla? It certainly can, but Hyundai/Kia knows how to make luxury cars. I know a lot of people here feel it beneath them to stop by a Hyundai or Kia dealership and look (or god forbid test-drive) their higher-end cars. But those who did know that Hyundai and Kia know how to make luxury interiors.
4. Can it have a better battery range than Tesla? Hardly, as Tesla on the cutting edge of the battery tech, but then again, Apple would have to partner with LG, Panasonic, or other battery tech leader for batteries comparable with the ones used by Tesla, which is what Tesla has been doing for many years now.
5. Can it be more reliable than Tesla? It should, and Hyundai/Kia make very reliable cars nowdays. In fact, in reliability terms, their cars one of the most reliable ones compared to any brand.
6. Can it be better built than Tesla? It better be! Again, Hyundai/Kia initial quality pretty much beats any other car manufacturer.

So, what's the problem with Hyundai/Kia being the OEM for Apple Car? One word: PRESTIGE. The Apple Car built by Hyundai/Kia could be twice as good as Tesla, but it will be uncool in the eyes of Apple fans. And that is the biggest problem with this rumor.

Hyundai has lots of capital, experience, industrial capacity, humans, and the ability to make new, modern plants.

Tesla had to grow from nothing in an old Corolla factory.

Apple is starting this with a huge advantage.

I’m expecting a premium (not luxury) small crossover that doesn’t compete with tesla for performance, with better self driving and integration than tesla. Nothing more, nothing less. Likely a Hyundai drivetrain and battery pack. Kia unibody with Apple supplied interior, Apple body panels and glass, Apple automation sensors and cameras, Apple infotainment, Apple supervised production and quality control on a Kia / Hyundai produced line. Basically aN Apple Lexus NX200 or Acura RDX. This won’t be a market entry like Tesla did with aspirational $120k-$150k cars. It will be something much more in reach for mass market. If Apple makes a more aspirational “pro” version to compete with p85/ model X, it will come much later after initial learnings.

 

[aaadktda]

You've presented a logical fallacy. I'm talking about Hyundai here. Please stick to the topic.

I am. The topic is not that Apple is working with Hyundai or Kia to make a car. Just like in the previous 2 threads about the Apple car, the topic is that a brand that most users on this forum perceive as being cool is partnering with a brand that some users on this forum perceive as being uncool. The various facts that are brought forward to shame Hyundai can be found at other brands that are considered cool by some people, thus rendering them unusable when claiming that one brand should be chosen over the other.

 

[DanTSX]

I was thinking someone like VW, Audi or BMW would be a better fit for Apple. But KIA? ok...

Why?

 

[sirozha]

Hyundai has lots of capital, experience, industrial capacity, humans, and the ability to make new, modern plants.

Tesla had to grow from nothing in an old Corolla factory.

Apple is starting this with a huge advantage.

I’m expecting a premium (not luxury) small crossover that doesn’t compete with tesla for performance, with better self driving and integration than tesla. Nothing more, nothing less. Likely a Hyundai drivetrain and battery pack. Kia unibody with Apple supplied interior, Apple body panels and glass, Apple automation sensors and cameras, Apple infotainment, Apple supervised production and quality control on a Kia / Hyundai produced line. Basically aN Apple Lexus NX200 or Acura RDX. This won’t be a market entry like Tesla did with aspirational $120k-$150k cars. It will be something much more in reach for mass market. If Apple makes a more aspirational “pro” version to compete with p85/ model X, it will come much later after initial learnings.

Apple is hungry for margins. Tesla cars have 1% profit margin right now. To compete with Tesla and make a 40% profit margin that Apple is used to, their Model Y competitor will have to be priced at $100,000.

Apple has no problems with pricing their phones well over $1,000. It will have absolutely no compunctions to price its compact SUV to start at $100,000. And there will be a line queued up at the factory for weeks to pick up their Apple Car. They will be able to manufacture at least a few million Apple Cars before they will need to start thinking about competing with other EV manufacturers on price.

If one wants an excellent and affordable EV, there's nothing to see here. It's not Apple Car (because of the high price) and it's not Tesla (because of the mediocre quality). In fact, ironically, it's the Hyundai and the Kia EVs that one would be choosing their affordable EV from with a 300+ mile range and excellent ride and materials quality.

 

[seek3r]

Hyundai has lots of capital, experience, industrial capacity, humans, and the ability to make new, modern plants.

Tesla had to grow from nothing in an old Corolla factory.

Apple is starting this with a huge advantage.

I’m expecting a premium (not luxury) small crossover that doesn’t compete with tesla for performance, with better self driving and integration than tesla. Nothing more, nothing less. Likely a Hyundai drivetrain and battery pack. Kia unibody with Apple supplied interior, Apple body panels and glass, Apple automation sensors and cameras, Apple infotainment, Apple supervised production and quality control on a Kia / Hyundai produced line. Basically aN Apple Lexus NX200 or Acura RDX. This won’t be a market entry like Tesla did with aspirational $120k-$150k cars. It will be something much more in reach for mass market. If Apple makes a more aspirational “pro” version to compete with p85/ model X, it will come much later after initial learnings.

You forgot they will introduce a new charging plug, with a special regulatory chip that is licensable to companies who make charging gear for a modest fee and MFi certification. Otherwise you can slow charge your car over USBC, only takes a week

 

[FranApple]

Why is everyone up in arms about this? Kia might just be acting as an OEM here. The big boys would not be willing to do this because their brands are so strong. BMW acting as an OEM for Apple? No, it'd have to be a co-branded car at the very least. Kia could see this as an opportunity to significantly increase their visibility and mind share in the US by partnering with Apple. This, if done correctly, instantly upgrades their brand.

Plus, have you guys seen some of the newest Kias lately? Really striking designs. I like them. I would never buy one, but they make some good looking cars.

 

[DanTSX]

You forgot they will introduce a new charging plug, with a special regulatory chip that is licensable to companies who make charging gear for a modest fee and MFi certification. Otherwise you can slow charge your car over USBC, only takes a week

Very brave . Very revolutionary! 🤣

Another unanswered question is where these things are going to be sold and serviced. Folks paying $100k for a car are not going to want to deal with the Genius Bar and Grandma looking to get her iPhone SE2020 fixed at the Apple store.

I still think that Tim Apple is going to eventually pull the plug on this venture. Apple should start with an electric bicycle. Market entry into auto industry is rare and insanely difficult. (Tesla snuck in by accident with creating an aspirational green car. And their long term viability is in question as the established manufacturers ramp up EV and self drive lines)

 

[DanTSX]

Why is everyone up in arms about this?

100% consumerism.

 

[sirozha]

Very brave . Very revolutionary! 🤣

Another unanswered question is where these things are going to be sold and serviced. Folks paying $100k for a car are not going to want to deal with the Genius Bar and Grandma looking to get her iPhone SE2020 fixed at the Apple store.

I still think that Tim Apple is going to eventually pull the plug on this venture. Apple should start with an electric bicycle. Market entry into auto industry is rare and insanely difficult. (Tesla snuck in by accident with creating an aspirational green car. And their long term viability is in question as the established manufacturers ramp up EV and self drive lines)

Not Genius Bars; Genesis Bars.

 

[dlopan]

The wheels on the Car Pro will cost extra.

Battery will be extra. Garbage. The way Apple is priced car should be Lexus.

 

[abbymtl]

Korean Car hate comments incoming....

In any seriousness. Kia/Hyundai/Genesis makes great cars now. If this is true, this would be great for both them and Apple. I like the idea of it potentially being built (at least somewhat) in the US!

Seriously though, go to your local Kia dealership and test out a Kia Stinger with the 3.3L V6. Your mind will be blown!

They are the equivalent of Samsung of cars. Everything they do is "inspired" by other luxury brands.

Makes sense since Samsung supplied a decent chunk of the items Apple needed for their initial launch.

 

[mannyvel]

No car company wants to end up like Nokia, Blackberry, and Motorola.

 

[sirozha]

I think these rumors of Apple partnering with Hyundai or Kia perhaps describe early stage conversations that went nowhere. Kia and Hyundai make great cars nowdays. I could see Hyundai relinquishing its car brand and becoming Apple's OEM, but I can't see Kia doing it. Hyundai can still retain its Genesis brand and let Kia become its non-premium brand or continue to be the drivetrain supplier for Kia, but I do not see how Kia would relinquish its brand to become Apple's OEM unless Hyundai acquires more than 50% of Kia's stock and can order Kia to relinquish its brand and become Apple's OEM.

Additionally, I think that there is too much risk for Kia or Hyundai to relinquish a brand to become an OEM for Apple because Apple is known to change OEMs and generally throw them under the bus. So, I don't see any reason for any established car brand to become an Apple OEM.

Moreover, I am still not convinced that Apple will be releasing a car; I think their Project Titan is about self-driving tech and infotainment system and not at all about a complete car as a product. However, if they do release a car, they will most likely partner with one of the Chinese EV brands practically unknown in the US and have the Apple Car manufactured in China.

If you asked 100 iPhones owners, 90 of them would not know that their iPhone is manufactured by Foxconn. Most people are quite ignorant in that reguard. In fact, there's a comment on Apple Insider from one of the posters who said that until today he thought that Kia was a Chinese brand. So, it's better for Apple not to partner with a known car brand and instead go with a relatively unknown Chinese manufacturer and pretend that Apple Car is built by Apple by not advertising the actual OEM just like they are doing with the iPhone.

 

[mannyvel]

They are the equivalent of Samsung of cars. Everything they do is "inspired" by other luxury brands.

Every luxury brand is inspired by other luxury brands. The car market is even worse; there hasn't been a new idea in the luxury car world since the Lexus RS300/BMW X5.

There probably hasn't been a really new idea in the car market since the 1950s. It's been variations on a few themes since forever. It's still a box on wheels. Compare that to architecture, where they take advantage of new materials and methods. In the car world it's just new lipstick on the same pig.

 

[StevieD100]

I don't know what you guys are expecting from Apple Car. What exactly do you think it should be?

1. Can it be faster than a comparable Tesla? I don't think so unless Apple has figured out how to bend the laws of physics.
2. Can it have a better self-driving system than Tesla? Yes, it can. But that has nothing to do with who manufactures the car itself.
3. Can it be more luxurious than Tesla? It certainly can, but Hyundai/Kia knows how to make luxury cars. I know a lot of people here feel that it's beneath themselves to stop by a Hyundai or Kia dealership and look (or god forbid test-drive) their higher-end cars. But those who have realize that Hyundai and Kia know how to make luxury interiors and great ride quality, let alone gorgeous looking shapes.
4. Can it have a better battery range than Tesla? Hardly, as Tesla is on the cutting edge of the battery tech. Then again, Apple would have to partner with LG, Panasonic, or other battery tech leader for batteries comparable with the ones used by Tesla, which is what Tesla has been doing for many years now.
5. Can it be more reliable than Tesla? It should, and Hyundai/Kia make very reliable cars nowdays. In fact, in reliability terms, theirs are ones of the most reliable cars compared to any other brand.
6. Can it be better built than Tesla? It better be! Again, Hyundai/Kia's initial quality pretty much beats any other car manufacturer.

So, what's the problem with Hyundai/Kia being the OEM for Apple Car? One word: PRESTIGE. The Apple Car built by Hyundai/Kia could be twice as good as Tesla, but it will be seen as uncool in the eyes of Apple fanboys. And that is the biggest problem with this rumor.

What about the Apple Car being far better in quality terms than any Tesla? (apart from the Tesla's made in China)
There are no 'panel gaps' on an iPhone and people buying an Apple car will expect the same.

 

[sirozha]

I'm really not sure why there is still so much interest in the Apple Car. If one has money to spend on a capable EV, Model 3 and Model Y are now much more affordable than Teslas of 5 years ago.

Starting this year, there will be a serious competition to Tesla coming from a dozen other car brands, including Hyundai and Kia. By the time Apple gets around to making an EV (if that ever happens), the EV market will be mature. Apple Car (if ever materializes) will be a very expensive option considering Apple's desire for a 40% profit margin. So, only extremely wealthy people and complete Apple fanboys would be interested. Just like the golden Apple Watch for $17,000, the Apple Car will be a very niche product. Apple will not upend the car industry like they did the smartphone industry. The only shot they still have to be a player in the automotive field is in becoming a supplier of self-driving tech to other car brands. Smaller car brands do not have resources to develop their own self-driving tech, so Apple should (and most likely will) capitalize on that demand. Tesla with its FSD will be competing against smaller EV brands that will be paying Apple to license the smart driving tech. Instead of using an OEM to make a million cars per year, Apple could supply self driving tech to 20 million cars per year. Even if Apple charges car manufacturers $5,000 per car for the self-driving system (which is 1/2 of what Tesla is charging for its FSD today), Apple could be grossing $100 billion per year and make $40 billion in profit from selling self-driving tech.

 

[centauratlas]

Oh wow. Kia doesn’t compare to Lexus? No way!

I don’t think Apple will be trying to compete with Mercedes anyways.

The point is that Apple is NOT a Kia class product. Kia is down market, known for their unreliability, poor build quality, and low price. Apple is the opposite (except sometimes unreliable until the x.x.1 version).

It would be like Apple going to Fero to build iPhone MTN Fero A4001 to run iOS on a $30 phone with a 1MP camera and plastic exterior.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I last test drove a Kia SUV in 2015, but I hope Apple improves their quality. (Maybe they've done so by now.). The SUV didn't compare to a Lexus, let alone Mercedes, or even the Ford Explorer.

I'd definitely give it a try though.


Edit:

Since some people missed the point below - the rumor seems untrue anyway, but:

The point is that Apple is NOT a Kia class product. Kia is down market, known for their unreliability, poor build quality, and low price. Apple is the opposite (except sometimes unreliable until the x.x.1 version). Would I give an Apple/Kia car a test drive? Yes, because of the build quality of most of the Apple products from Macs to iPhones to iPads. One would hope that if this is true, Apple would require a Lexus/Mercedes/Porsche build quality from Kia before being affiliated with it.

Would I buy one that had a rattling doors and would rust in 2 years? No. Having an Apple Car with the build quality from Kia 6 years ago would tarnish the Apple brand and be a disaster. Doing otherwise would be like Apple going to Fero to build iPhone MTN Fero A4001 to run iOS on a $30 phone with a 1MP camera and plastic exterior that could survive a 1 inch drop but no more with Face ID taking 15 seconds to scan.

It should be noted that from what others in the thread have said, Kia has improved, which would be great. The more competition the better. I hope they have great build quality. I don't care about the brand, I care about it being reliable and safe.

Motor Trend magazine and I disagree with you on Hyundai/Kia quality.

The Kia Telluride is the 2020 MotorTrend SUV of the Year

The Kia Telluride is the 2020 MotorTrend SUV of the Year, and there's more to this picture than just bold three-row crossover styling. Get the story here.

www.motortrend.com

 

[jz0309]

believe it when I see it ...

 

[chrisbru]

The problem with Hyundai/Kia is the price is a few thousand away from a Toyota, which won't break down all the time.

I thought Hyundai and Kia have great reliability trackrecords the last decade or so. I have a 2017 Hyundai Sonata and haven't had any issues.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Yeah, they've really stepped up their game recently 🤣

What car company does not have recalls?

Here are Toyotas with (potentially) cracked engines: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30997060/2020-toyota-recall-camry-avalon-rav4-engine-cracks/

Here are recalled recent model Prius cars with fire hazard risks: https://abc13.com/automotive/toyota-recalls-more-than-1-million-vehicles-for-fire-hazard/4151535/ (and the Prius is generally considered the most reliable car in the world -- I have one and it's had no issues in 7+ years [only needed oil changes and new tires so far]).

Toyota was also recently fined $180 million for false emissions reports including this gem:

Toyota’s conduct likely resulted in delayed or avoided recalls, with Toyota obtaining a significant economic benefit, pushing costs onto consumers, and lengthening the time that unrepaired vehicles with emission-related defects remained on the road.

So now we have a company (Toyota) charged by the DOJ for hiding issues that should have led to recalls. I also can cherry pick data all day.

 

[Ryth]

The point is that Apple is NOT a Kia class product. Kia is down market, known for their unreliability, poor build quality, and low price. Apple is the opposite (except sometimes unreliable until the x.x.1 version).

It would be like Apple going to Fero to build iPhone MTN Fero A4001 to run iOS on a $30 phone with a 1MP camera and plastic exterior.

Hyundai/Kia is only "down market" because of people like you who are basically uninformed...

They took the top Audi designer from Audi and the BMW M brand engineer to build their cars over the last years.

My friend had an Optima & folks all the time asked him if it was an Audi when they first came years ago when Peter Schreyer (Audi's head designer) took over for Kia. Now their cars look higher end than the Germans do.

Let's take the Telluride for example. They have better features than vehicles $15K-25K in the same range. They can't keep them on the lots.

It's why the Telluride is the top seller in the segment over BMW/Audi. The quality is the same and you're getting more for your $$$.

If you look at places like Carmax, Consumers Reports, etc (that don't get money from the car companies) that have ratings you'll see Hyundai/Kia are more reliable that Honda/Toyota, etc. and in fact are in the top 3 if not top 5.

They have 5 year warranties. 60K mile warranties.

I don't go by rating magazines/sites that get $$$ from the car manufacturers themselves to "research/rate" them.

So keep going with the down market line...it just shows literally how uninformed you are to the car market.

 

[imac_g4_1702]

next week, Samsung announce plans to have Hyundai build Galaxy electric cars.
after scoffing at Apple for doing so.

Samsung will rush a folding car to market... but it will have hinge issues from road dust they didnt have in test labs and a few battery fires due to super fast charger... each car will have a plastic laminated windscreen and only after a few people peel them off will it be revealed the coating was meant to stay in place. and you'll get free in ear noise cancelling pods which will no doubt add to driver inattention.

Samsung already had sold its car brand to Renault. They prob cant haha..