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People are easily fooled by Enron Musk’s big promises.

“Self-driving” as it is today, is an image processor reading instructions from a database, it does not “make decisions”. That’s why it appears to improve despite being on fixed hardware. FSD is a very distant thing, it’s doubtful it can even be done at all.

It might also help if it stopped causing car crashes and swerving towards pedestrians.
so you never tried it and appear don't understand a thing about what goes in. Got it.
 
Waiting for someone to ask whether it charges via USB-C.
Lightning. Got to sell those cables somehow.

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Apple should make something that is improved by what they are already good at. A camera would be best, but then they would be competing with their iPhone suppliers, (Sony) so they probably can't.

Since they are involved in TV and movie production, they ought to be involved with all the recent AI innovation with pics, video, and writing. Imagine a word processor that could spot problems with your script - continuity errors, unlikable characters, ect, and point out new things that your characters might do instead.
 
I'm legitimately curious what the value proposition is here versus another vehicle with well-implemented current or next-generation CarPlay, especially if autonomous driving is taken off the table or severely limited. Cars can already be deeply tied into the Apple ecosystem via CarPlay, and the next generation is open to all manufacturers to deepen the integration. So other than perhaps creating a rival to Tesla, which has thus far shunned CarPlay, what's the point?
The Rokr vs the iPhone is my guess.

I don't know Apple's plans or timeline for their car, but I do know nothing about the iPhone was revolutionary tech, but the sum of the parts absolutely were. An Apple car doesn't necessarily have to be autonomous to be compelling. There is lots of room for improvement in current ICE and EV cars (including Tesla) where Apple could introduce a vehicle that is just better in terms of all the little details that add up to really great car while challenging some of the conventional paradigms that we have come to believe are necessities but really aren't.
 
There will be no cars that will be Full Self-Driving in our time life frame
Maybe not sharing roads with human drivers... but I could easily see the start of a specialized highway system specifically for FSD cars—potentially publicly funded but privately run with tolls similar to EZ Pass Express—within the next 30 years.

EDIT: Before someone tells me "you just described *insert public transit option*" I know. That doesn't change what the market might do.
 
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It might also help if it stopped causing car crashes and swerving towards pedestrians.
But humans do those things far more than current FSD cars. Are you advocating for getting rid of human drivers? Machines don't need to be perfect...just better than humans. We need to stop focusing on individual mishaps involving self-driving cars and instead look to see if full AI control of all vehicles (even with imperfect FSD) would cause less than 16,438 crashes PER DAY and kill fewer than 104 people PER DAY (in the U.S.). If so, then FSD would be a success.
 
But humans do those things far more than current FSD cars. Are you advocating for getting rid of human drivers? Machines don't need to be perfect...just better than humans. We need to stop focusing on individual mishaps involving self-driving cars and instead look to see if full AI control of all vehicles (even with imperfect FSD) would cause less than 16,438 crashes PER DAY and kill fewer than 104 people PER DAY (in the U.S.). If so, then FSD would be a success.
Yea it's ridiculous that there could be an accident a month with Autodrive and those numbers you said for humans, but they attack the Autodrive. And a lot of the articles, the human wasn't paying attention even though they sign off on it.
 
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Yea it's ridiculous that there could be an accident a month with Autodrive and those numbers you said for humans, but they attack the Autodrive. And a lot of the articles, the human wasn't paying attention even though they sign off on it.
yep! I also think it's shocking that the media will give major coverage to a single electric car battery fire, but there are on average 476 car fires PER DAY in the U.S. (2021 stat). So, gas cars are going up in flames like crazy but only electric car fires make the news.
 
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But humans do those things far more than current FSD cars. Are you advocating for getting rid of human drivers? Machines don't need to be perfect...just better than humans. We need to stop focusing on individual mishaps involving self-driving cars and instead look to see if full AI control of all vehicles (even with imperfect FSD) would cause less than 16,438 crashes PER DAY and kill fewer than 104 people PER DAY (in the U.S.). If so, then FSD would be a success.

The problem you have there is perception and tolerance

Despite data, there is far lower societal tolerance for a computer driven system that's killing people (as opposed to human drivers)

"A computer made a mistake and killed my daughter" -- gives people a different gut reaction than "another human made a mistake and killed my daughter".

I have no idea how to conquer that, but it's absolutely a "thing" -- despite how counterintuitive and against the data it is.

Truthfully, this is similar (but different of course) to the problem we have with getting Americans to use, get excited about and fund transit infrastructure projects already. There are a ton of things we should be doing differently (in the US I mean) already ... that we don't ... because of "people" and their habits and biases, etc
 
But humans do those things far more than current FSD cars. Are you advocating for getting rid of human drivers? Machines don't need to be perfect...just better than humans. We need to stop focusing on individual mishaps involving self-driving cars and instead look to see if full AI control of all vehicles (even with imperfect FSD) would cause less than 16,438 crashes PER DAY and kill fewer than 104 people PER DAY (in the U.S.). If so, then FSD would be a success.

If we can't comprehend the behaviour of one vehicle we certainly can't extrapolate the behaviour of a complex distributed system of many vehicles. And we definitely won't be able to deterministically assign a liability when something does go wrong. So the idea is a non-starter already.

That's not even a worry though as it's not the limiting factor of the idea. Really it's down to two schools of thought on systems design. First line of thought is you must design a constrained system with no capabilities and add features to it. Second line of thought is you design an open system and remove defects. The latter is where FSD sits. The initial condition has a set of defects which is unknown and they are only found via discovery, which means you have to literally drive it into a tree before the inference network determines that it is defective behaviour. Same as when you spray water on a cat that is trying to piss on the carpet. The work around for this, which is what Tesla are doing, is to attempt to add constraints around it. The result of this, as you've seen is the things clamming up suddenly or attempting to drive into stuff suddenly as applying constraints to an unconstrained system results in non-determinism.

As you can see this entire thing is a **** show. Ignoring where we are now with meat sacks at the wheel, which is also a **** show, it's better to start with a constrained system. That's another essay but ignoring the FSD and electric car hype, if we want to survive the next hundred years FSD isn't going to have an ounce of relevance. Adjusting society around centralisation, lower car ownership and utilising automated public transport is where we should go. Rails are a pretty good constrained system...
 
A car without a steering wheel was never going to happen. While its obviously something that could be researched, I'm not sure if anyone thought that is what they would release as their first product.
Even Johnny Cab and the cars from Demolition Man had steering wheels.
 
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If we can't comprehend the behaviour of one vehicle we certainly can't extrapolate the behaviour of a complex distributed system of many vehicles. And we definitely won't be able to deterministically assign a liability when something does go wrong. So the idea is a non-starter already.

That's not even a worry though as it's not the limiting factor of the idea. Really it's down to two schools of thought on systems design. First line of thought is you must design a constrained system with no capabilities and add features to it. Second line of thought is you design an open system and remove defects. The latter is where FSD sits. The initial condition has a set of defects which is unknown and they are only found via discovery, which means you have to literally drive it into a tree before the inference network determines that it is defective behaviour. Same as when you spray water on a cat that is trying to piss on the carpet. The work around for this, which is what Tesla are doing, is to attempt to add constraints around it. The result of this, as you've seen is the things clamming up suddenly or attempting to drive into stuff suddenly as applying constraints to an unconstrained system results in non-determinism.

As you can see this entire thing is a **** show. Ignoring where we are now with meat sacks at the wheel, which is also a **** show, it's better to start with a constrained system. That's another essay but ignoring the FSD and electric car hype, if we want to survive the next hundred years FSD isn't going to have an ounce of relevance. Adjusting society around centralisation, lower car ownership and utilising automated public transport is where we should go. Rails are a pretty good constrained system...
Well one part of the whole FSD scam was/is that of rideshare. Reduce the number of cars because you just hail one on your phone , it shows up, no talky/smelly/rapey driver. No cramped compact car backseat either.

But the issue there is peak demand would far outstrip supply.

Private ownership of FSD simply wouldn’t work without redundant self drive features, which then require redundant self-drive occupants, who would be much worse drivers than now due to lack of practice. Private driveways, garages and one-off use cases would require on-the-fly training of an FSD or simply refusal of the vehicle to do what is asked. And it honestly would turn most owners off.

Meat sacks are horrible drivers as a whole. Look at any garage wall, curb, k rail, jersey barrier, post, etc and you will see tire rubber or car paint. Humans are constantly hitting things. But we have decided that’s okay. If a FSD car scrapes anything? UNACCEPTABLE!
 
Watch movies or multitask? That’s responsible … better use of the technology is safety and reducing driver stress travelling long distances.
And Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Assist features already accomplish that.
 
Per the article : Apple wanted to create a self-driving car without a steering wheel or pedals, but has decided that such a plan was dumb as **** and fired the person who suggested it.
 
As long as there are non-self-driving cars on the road, self-driving cars will never work well. If all the cars on the road could communicate with each other to keep safe driving distances, change lanes safely and brake properly, then I'd be all-in for a self-driving car. But the wild card of course is the increasing number of people on the road who drive as if they're in a GTA simulation. As long as they have the wheel, self-driving cars are pretty much pointless. Current computers aren't very good at dealing with recklessness.
Until a heavy rain on a dark day and things stop working. Happens now and then to every car model with radar, camera or lidar systems. You get a dash warning that the bells and whistles are no longer available. Nothing is broken, just the sensors can’t make sense of the world.
 
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The problem you have there is perception and tolerance

Despite data, there is far lower societal tolerance for a computer driven system that's killing people (as opposed to human drivers)

"A computer made a mistake and killed my daughter" -- gives people a different gut reaction than "another human made a mistake and killed my daughter".

I have no idea how to conquer that, but it's absolutely a "thing" -- despite how counterintuitive and against the data it is.

Truthfully, this is similar (but different of course) to the problem we have with getting Americans to use, get excited about and fund transit infrastructure projects already. There are a ton of things we should be doing differently (in the US I mean) already ... that we don't ... because of "people" and their habits and biases, etc
Agree 100%. I actually work in the field of risk and safety and authored a report on acceptable risk thresholds for UAS (drone) mishaps. Public acceptance typically relies on five key factors:
  • Familiarity
  • Risk/Benefit Equity
  • Control
  • Trust in Management
  • Fear of Risk Consequences
Public perception rarely matches up with scientific risk data (for example, the general public fears nuclear power more than riding in an automobile, whereas the former is orders of magnitude safer than the latter). The public has high tolerance for human-controlled automobiles because there is strong bias towards accepting the risk: Familiarity - autos are everywhere and we've ridden in them since we can remember; Risk/Benefit Equity - we are willing to take on the risk because the benefit is so high (how else would we get where we need to go?); Control - as the driver, we have direct control of our own fate; Trust in Management - we typically believe that government safety regulations have done a good job making cars safe; Fear of Risk Consequences - for whatever reason, the familiarity we have with car crashes makes us not too fearful (as opposed to something like a nuclear plant meltdown, which make strike people with extreme fear).
 
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