Apple Card Won’t Support Multiple Users, No Cost Associated With Physical Card

[tmiw]

A year isn't really enough time to change over a business model.

Eh, Kroger killed Visa credit acceptance at a couple of their brands with a month or so of notice, so I'm not sure I buy that.

Rewards cards were a direct response to the Durbin amendment. The Durbin amendment allowed consumers the ease of a card based transaction but gave the banks only about a thirtieth of the interchange fee they were getting for credit cards because debit card transactions are secured. Rewards cards were a way of encouraging consumers to use credit cards rather than debit cards because there's a little something in it for them.

Rewards cards have been a thing since at least the late 80s.

In fact, the next wave of innovation began in the early 1980s with airline frequent flier programs and credit card loyalty programs. In the late 1980s, credit card issuers began introducing a broader array of loyalty and rewards programs. In 1986, the popular “cash back” program from Discover Financial Services, a division of Morgan Stanley, appeared. Discover introduced the concept of providing cash to the credit cardholder at the end of every year based on the total amount of charges. Such programs are still in place, three decades later, and remain highly popular with customers.

Did Durbin help inflate the amount given back to cardholders? Maybe. There are also other factors, though, like millennials being more credit averse than their parents (and thus less likely to use credit without an incentive) and the improving economy.

Reward card interchange fees are about twice that of standard credit cards an are about 60 times the fee of debit cards.

Some debit cards, specifically from major banks. The smaller ones don't have any caps.

charging different prices for different credit cards is probably more than consumers will take.

It's also still against card network rules, for now at least.

 

[Ortiz83]

The best announcement from Apple in a long time is a credit card, courage!

How does one ask for increase in their credit limit? A new iPhone and Macbook will cost well over 5K.

that’s the problem right there. Having a balance. If you can’t pay off your balance, why the heck would someone need a credit limit increase? No wonder lots of people aren’t in debt.
[doublepost=1553857466][/doublepost]Plea

I thought the cost was 1-2% of purchases:

3% kick back for purchases from Apple,
2% through Apple Pay and
1% if you use the physical card

Looks like there's a cost to me...

please don’t get this credit card. Hell, any credit card at that. ‍♂️

 

[tizeye]

Two major problems - the lack of CVC and the lack of pin. Almost a non-issue, if done right and linked, is the separate card for spouse/family as I have 2 cards (USAA/Visa and Delta/AMEX) that do it that way but both are itemized and combined on the same statement, similar to cell phone statements.

The biggest problem is the mumbo jumbo work around solution where almost has to be integrated within an app within an Apple product and it assumes that the merchants website is set up to accommodate leaving the cvc field blank in their website design. Yesterday placed an online order at work on their PC which wouldn't have the capacity/apps for Apple pay and the proposed work around. About the only workaround that would almost be universal is the PayPal checkout with the Apple card linked to PayPal as default rather than a checking account.

The lack of a PIN (and no one has even discussed fees such as foreign currency conversion) affects most US credit cards today. As banks finally went to the chip, they left off the PIN that the rest of the world requires. I think of this shortcoming every time I use it in the States - anybody in possession of my card can stick it in and after the electronic handshake is approved, remove the card and walk out with the purchase without further input or signature. In Europe, they expect a PIN and if none, there is a signature procedure which is the workaround. Works OK in a manned situation, but forget about unmanned kiosk such as bus and train tickets where the card is simply rejected due to lack of password (PIN). I doubt if they are going to re-engineer and install a sensor to every kiosk to wave the magic Apple wand to finish the transaction. (HINT: use your ATM/Debit card with PIN at unmanned kiosk, as they typically will work - but also have foreign conversion fee with each transaction). Sometimes unmanned kiosk cant be avoided, like the bus stop kiosk that doesn't take cash outside the hotel that will get you to the airport.

 

[Ortiz83]

So you can't "share accounts" meaning married couples can't have authorized users so that they can both keep track of finances?

That's kind of dumb...

Who said all married couple have joint accounts? Don’t speak for everyone.

 

[Alan Wynn]

So then you understand it’s only $150 annually and offers 3 points for every single dollar spent on travel and restaurant purchase without limit.

So after one spends $15,000 (really $15,300 to include the statement credit) on travel and restaurants, one gets an extra 1% (3% vs. 2%) on those two categories vs. getting 2% on all spend on mobile payments.

You also get your global entry fee of $100 waived amongst many other perks.

Worth at most $20 a year - Gobal Entry is $100 for 5 years - or $17 a year for those who do TSA pre (and worth nothing for anyone who wants Nexus to include travel into Canada and only costs $50 for 5 years but is not covered by CSR).

The Reserve is among the top 2 cards available, with only Amex Platinum a competitor.

Among the top two cards for people for whom airline travel is the most important benefit, and spend a lot of money in that category and who do not want a card for airline travel that achieves some status benefits (like Chase’s United Club Card).

A simple 2% on all mobile payments is a great deal for most people who do not spend their lives point hacking (and/or people who do not spend the bulk of their money on travel or restaurants). For those who do, it is better than Chase Sapphire Reserve for general mobile payment spend (2% vs. 1%). It is also better for people who ever run a balance (13% - 24% vs. 19.2 - 26%).

 

[tizeye]

I literally want this just for the physical card

The get it and frame it for display. Nothing says you actually have to use it. More people will probably see it on framed display than stuck in your wallet where it plays a backup role to the app.
[doublepost=1553858709][/doublepost]

My wife and I have been thinking of getting a Costco card (VISA) as it has up to 4% for purchases at Costco, including their gas. Then I was going to instead seriously consider the Apple Card until I just read that my wife and I won’t be able to both use it. As Sasparilla said above, that really makes it difficult to have a greater awareness of your spending when you don’t have a super high percent of discretionary income.

Get it. Nothing says you have to spend the rewards card at Costco (and probably better if you don't as it won't generate future rewards). I got my check for $150, bought a gallon of milk for $2.79 and they gave me change! As far as the separate Apple card for couples, it depends on how they do it and the devil is in the details...and if they even have statements. If they combine the two into a single statement - like a family plan cell phone bill with separate phone numbers - it is essentially transparent with two itemized groups combined into one for a single payment. Two separate statements/bills would be a non-starter though.

 

[Alan Wynn]

As a 40-something who has NEVER used a credit card (only debit cards), and has never used credit at all - i buy everything outright from cars to houses - I literally have no credit history (no student loan, no mortgage. Even though I make 400k+ a year I can't get a simple entry credit card as I'm 'not in the system'. I went to Experian and Transunion earlier this year as I wanted to get a secured-card that offered cash-back or miles - and neither could provide me with a credit report as I was 'not on file'.. I spend over 10k a year on Apple products, and have a long history of this. I wonder if your relationship with Apple will have any bearing on getting a card - or if it's simply a credit worthiness call by GS - in which case I'm SOL.

You have been leaving money on the table for years (credit card rewards programs, car financing discounts, etc.).

Building a credit history is very easy. Given that you paid for your house out right, you must have a solid relationship with a financial institution of some sort (you had to store the money somewhere while you were saving for it). You have two choices: open a pair of secured cards, use them for a few months until you “graduate” to real cards or go to your financial institution and get your financial advisor to have their underwriter review your account history to open either a real credit card, or a Home Equity Line of credit and use that responsibly for a few months.

Given that you have several months until this card is available, you have time to transfer $50,000 to an account at Goldman Sachs, and build a relationship with them.

Go to FicoForums.myFICO.com and read about building credit.

 

[mlody]

I literally want this just for the physical card

Same here.

 

[ectospheno]

I don’t understand why more people aren’t pointing out that the interest rates are horrible. I pay less than 13% now and my credit, while good, isn’t perfect. Those rates are dumb and if you are paying those rates now then you should move to a better bank.

 

[ipponrg]

I don’t understand why more people aren’t pointing out that the interest rates are horrible. I pay less than 13% now and my credit, while good, isn’t perfect. Those rates are dumb and if you are paying those rates now then you should move to a better bank.

Because most financially responsible people pay off their credit cards every month and rarely think about a credit card’s APR

 

[DNichter]

I am definitely in on this. Looks like some great features and should only get better over time. This is definitely an area where Apple can make an impact.

 

[DrJR]

Not falling for this. Apple pay with my bank card is great, very convenient. I don't do debt any more.

 

[DNichter]

Because most financially responsible people pay off their credit cards every month and rarely think about a credit card’s APR

Agree here. I see it as a non issue. I typically just use a credit card for convenience/points and pay it off as soon as the transaction posts. If you are holding balances for a long time, you have bigger issues.

 

[ipponrg]

For those who do, it is better than Chase Sapphire Reserve for general spend (2% vs. 1%)

Just a note: not everywhere takes Apple Pay.

You’re better off with Citi’s Doublecash card for general spend. I believe Citi also has an automatic service where it searches the recent internet order you’ve made and automatically reimburses you the difference if it finds the product cheaper at another store

This Apple card really is ideal for Apple purchases. The other perks of it aren’t as great compared to competitors

 

[Alan Wynn]

I don’t understand why more people aren’t pointing out that the interest rates are horrible. I pay less than 13% now and my credit, while good, isn’t perfect. Those rates are dumb and if you are paying those rates now then you should move to a better bank.

Probably because they are not horrible, they are on the low end of average. There are certainly some banks and credit unions with lower rates. Who issued your card(s)? What rate are you paying? What is your FICO score range?

The interest rate matters only if one plans to run a balance.

As for those who want to share a card, I am curious if Apple will prevent me from having the card on multiple Apple devices as I do now (I have two iPhones, two Apple watches and a few friends who routinely shop for me all with one or more of my cards). Most authorized user cards do not get separate card numbers to differentiate which person purchased the items, so this would be the same if I can do what I do now. AmEx and a few others do separately itemize, which would be nicer.

 

[Stella]

"When using the card no signatures will be required"

But a lot of places when using credit card still are requiring signatures. Most places in fact. So even though the card doesn't require it, chances are you'll always be signing.

Can't remember the last time I needed to sign when paying by credit card.

 

[Phogro]

I didn't think that was a controversial statement, but reading how people think about credit cards is kinda freaking me out... Cash back isn't mana from heaven, it's a delayed discount. Less of a discount means it costs more. To wit:

If you buy something for $100 with Apple Pay, you get 2% back. It costs you $98.
If you buy something for $100 with the physical card, you get 1% back. It costs you $99.

The physical card costs you 1% of purchases.

One benefit of Apple's "Daily Cash" approach is that there is less of a delay in receiving the discount. With monthly cash back, the bank earns the interest on that money for an average of 15 days. If you're holding a balance, they're earning something like 20% interest on it (much less if you don't hold a balance but even if they put it into Treasuries they're getting more than the 2% they're giving you). Apple is forgoing most of that interest...

It's more like this...

If you buy something for $100 with Apple Pay you save 2 dollars.
If you buy something for $100 with the physical card you save 1 dollar.
If you buy something for $100 with cash you save nothing.

The list price of this item was $100 dollars in all cases and it has never cost you more money. At worst you pay list price and best case you're saving 2%. The physical card only costs you 1% if you use it in lieu of Apple Pay when Apple Pay is also accepted by the vendor and that's your own damn fault for being stupid.

The other point to address here is the physical cost of the card to Apple and maybe you're trying to say that Apple is trying to recoup this cost over time by offering a lower savings on their physical card purchases vs Apple Pay.

Apple is not charging you 1% more for using the physical card to recoup these costs that's just silly. Their primary goal here is to increase the use of Apple Pay and by offering a higher incentive on those transactions people will want to use Apple Pay when it is available driving demand and acceptance of this platform.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Just a note: not everywhere takes Apple Pay.

Corrected it to say general mobile payment spend. The nice thing about this approach is that it is easy to remember. One sets it to be the default on Apple Pay and just does not keep the physical card in one’s wallet.

You’re better off with Citi’s Doublecash card for general spend.

Better for non-mobile payment general spend if one does not run a balance. For mobile payment general spend, one gets the 2% on a daily basis, rather than 1% when one purchases and 1% when one pays (meaning one gets the money faster).

If one runs a balance, one loses two ways, first one only gets 1% until the purchase is finally paid off, and two Citi Double rewards has a minimum APR of 16%, meaning that one will pay a minimum of 3% higher interest.

I believe Citi also has an automatic service where it searches the recent internet order you’ve made and automatically reimburses you the difference if it finds the product cheaper at another store

“Price Rewind” is only sort of automatic. It searches automatically, but one has to register every purchase one wants to have it price protect.

This Apple card really is ideal for Apple purchases. The other perks of it aren’t as great compared to competitors

Actually, this card is ideal for people who do not want to spend a lot of time point hacking for all mobile payments. No need to think about which card to use, set it as the default and forget about it. Get another card that is better than 1% for non-mobile purchases, but give up the spend tracking that has some value to some people.

 

[AlumaMac]

If the Barclays card is any indication your credit score will need to be roughLy 9000 to qualify!

Rumors are 780+ for Apple Card...

 

[abrahamw88]

The great part about this card is it will likely increase Apple Pay adoption at more stores and websites.

 

[Baymowe335]

So after one spends $15,000 (really $15,300 to include the statement credit) on travel and restaurants, one gets an extra 1% (3% vs. 2%) on those two categories vs. getting 2% on all spend on mobile payments.



Worth at most $20 a year - Gobal Entry is $100 for 5 years - or $17 a year for those who do TSA pre (and worth nothing for anyone who wants Nexus to include travel into Canada and only costs $50 for 5 years but is not covered by CSR).



Among the top two cards for people for whom airline travel is the most important benefit, and spend a lot of money in that category and who do not want a card for airline travel that achieves some status benefits (like Chase’s United Club Card).

A simple 2% on all mobile payments is a great deal for most people who do not spend their lives point hacking (and/or people who do not spend the bulk of their money on travel or restaurants). For those who do, it is better than Chase Sapphire Reserve for general mobile payment spend (2% vs. 1%). It is also better for people who ever run a balance (13% - 24% vs. 19.2 - 26%).

You can’t get 2% on enough mobile payments at present to make it better...that’s the problem. And, those points are only good for converting to cash...a terrible use of points on superior reward programs.

The Chase points are worth much more than simple cash value, which you can also redeem as 1 cent per point if you aren’t very smart. Transferring the points to something like an Airline gets you things like a $2,000 non stop ticket to Tokyo for 40,000 points, or $400 cash equivalent, making the points worth 5 cents each.

It’s not point hacking...it’s easier than anything.

Anyone using this card is earning 3% on high dollar travel purchases and a lot of dining.

For other transactions, you can use a Citi Double Cash for 2% or a Chase unlimited 1.5% on all non travel and food purchases while still earning chase points.

 

[Alan Wynn]

My wife and I have been thinking of getting a Costco card (VISA) as it has up to 4% for purchases at Costco, including their gas. Then I was going to instead seriously consider the Apple Card until I just read that my wife and I won’t be able to both use it. As Sasparilla said above, that really makes it difficult to have a greater awareness of your spending when you don’t have a super high percent of discretionary income.

Sorry, it is only 4% on gas. All other CostCo purchases are 2% (same as the Apple Card but it is 2% for all other mobile payments as well) and all other purchases (mobile or otherwise) are 1%. The interest rates are higher and they have a usurious penalty APR of 29.9% which can apply forever if one ever makes a late payment.

 

[JRobinsonJr]

No, I don't think it is a dumb!
It is a personal credit card, not a joined one.
If you wanted a joined one, look elsewhere. Plenty of other options for that.

This is another example of Apple's 1-to-1 view of the world that prevents them from implemented sorely needed and much requested features.

 

[C DM]

Two major problems - the lack of CVC and the lack of pin.

Pretty sure both would be something that's available.

 

[barmann]

People, stop sweating the details .
Goldman Sachs is involved !

I've been a huge fan since 2008 .