Apple Celebrates Pride in San Francisco Parade

[Fugabutacus]

Being gay is fine just as smoking pot is fine. Just not for me or my kids. I do not discriminate against those with whom I disagree. I do reserve the right to disagree and not to accept their ways, though.

I would support legalization of pot in my state, as I believe that legalization of pot would reduce crime that stems from the illegal pot market and would such legalization would bring significant revenue to the state. However, my child would get in a lot of trouble if I caught him smoking pot. I would have a serious talk with him, and I would try to make sure that he understands all the negative effects of smoking pot. Something being legal doesn't mean that it is OK for my child to engage in that behavior. Therefore, me considering legalization of pot being a good idea has nothing to do with how I feel about my child engaging in that behavior.

By the same token, I would do everything possible to steer my child away from any association with any organization that promotes and endorses the LGBTQ life style. That is my choice. This choice doesn't mean that I want to discriminate against LGBTQ or teach my children that being gay is a sin. I am far from it, and even though I do believe in God, I also believe that God is powerful enough to mete out his own judgment without needing my help. I will leave it up to God to figure out what causes someone to turn to the LGBTQ life style and it's up to God to reward or punish any particular LGBTQ person. I do not have a judgement one way or the other as to what's God's opinion is about LGBTQ individuals.

My responsibility as a citizen is to treat other citizens with respect and without any discrimination as long as they do not infringe upon my rights to practice my own lifestyle and raise my children in the way that I consider appropriate.

Now, to answer your question, I believe that making an LGBTQ watch face and placing it in a set of a limited number of default watch faces available on the watchOS platform is exactly that infringement of my rights to guard my child from the "in your face" LGBTQ lifestyle propaganda. That watch face should be available as an optional download, but it should not be in there as a default watch face. I know this is very subtle and most people think I'm freaking out for no reason, but this was intentionally done to appear so subtle. There was no need to do this other than to stick it to everyone who can't help but to encounter this watch face as they flip through the very limited set of default watch faces. This is, of course, a very small thing, and if it stood on its own, I wouldn't be objecting so much. However, Tim Cook goes much beyond that. He brings his social activism into the corporate culture of Apple. People feel that if they do not support Tim Cook's passion for LGBTQ causes they would be branded as bigots, just like numerous people call me a bigot on this forum. That is not such a subtle way for the CEO to impose his/her views on the employees. Why do I care? Well, for one, I'm a shareholder, and I disagree with this behavior. I would also disagree if an Apple CEO were a Christian who would try similar methods of "encouraging" his employees to "accept Jesus," etc. I think these social agendas should be kept out of the corporate world.

Why do you not want your kids to be gay?

 

[oldmacs]

If my child comes to me and says that he is gay, I would try to figure out what makes him think he is gay. Obviously, if he is gay by birth, there's nothing that can be done about it. What I'm trying to do is to make sure he doesn't get influenced by others to choose the gay lifestyle because someone he knows is so cool and is gay.

There isn't a 'gay lifestyle'. That is made up. No one chooses to live a gay lifestyle. Maybe except for Bisexual people, who may choose one way or another.

The posts in this thread are all the proof anyone needs that being gay is NOT a choice. Why would I choose to change myself to a way of being that gets attacked by people like in this thread? Kids don't see Gay people and decide they want to be gay and then change their sexuality.

I don't understand why it is fine for your children to be exposed to 'straight lifestyles', but not 'gay lifestyles'. I agree that children don't need to be exposed to the sexual aspect, but are you suggesting there is no sexual aspect to straight lifestyles? It really isn't that strange. Kids can understand that people can love each other, without having to understand the sexual impact, and knowing that men and women, women and women and men and men can all love each other doesn't seem to be a big stretch.

Why do you not want your kids to be gay?

I do get this to an extent. I am Gay, and I've struggled hugely with it (and still am). Society is still horrible about it. But that is the only reason, fears over life being harder, not about the concept of someone being homosexual in general (if that makes sense?

 

[Fugabutacus]

I do get this to an extent. I am Gay, and I've struggled hugely with it (and still am). Society is still horrible about it. But that is the only reason, fears over life being harder, not about the concept of someone being homosexual in general (if that makes sense?

Absolutely. What I'm getting at is that there's only two reasons not to want your kids to be gay:

1) You don't like gays. Then your facade falls @sirozha and you're a bigot through and through and your opinion doesn't matter, frankly.

2) You're fine with gays, you just don't want them to struggle more than necessary in life. Well, then that's reasonable, @sirozha but that makes you part of the problem and the solution is to change the world for the better, not to look the other way and pretend it's not happening because you don't see it. You may have good intentions, but you do need to change.

 

[sirozha]

Absolutely. What I'm getting at is that there's only two reasons not to want your kids to be gay:

1) You don't like gays. Then your facade falls @sirozha and you're a bigot through and through and your opinion doesn't matter, frankly.

2) You're fine with gays, you just don't want them to struggle more than necessary in life. Well, then that's reasonable, @sirozha but that makes you part of the problem and the solution is to change the world for the better, not to look the other way and pretend it's not happening because you don't see it. You may have good intentions, but you do need to change.

So, basically, if I would rather my child be straight than gay, then I'm a bigot. I'm fine with it. Call me a bigot. Let's close this discussion. Hopefully, you will never run into real bigots.

 

[0388631]

I used to have several nasty views that I changed because I evolved as a human being. Gay marriage hasn't destroyed any modern nation apart from getting the religious right's knickers in a twist. And I said that as someone who was a very church going Christian. I wouldn't say I'm an atheist now, agnostic maybe. I learned to live and let live.

But I do enjoy watching the plot of American Beauty unfold in this thread. If someone "turns" gay, they weren't straight to begin with.
[doublepost=1531179802][/doublepost]

So, basically, if I would rather my child be straight than gay, then I'm a bigot. I'm fine with it. Call me a bigot. Let's close this discussion. Hopefully, you will never run into real bigots.

It isn't what you said but how you say it. If you said "I wouldn't want my children being gay because society can still be viciously nasty to gay folks and I wouldn't want to see my children hurt by a stranger because of whomever they love," then I hardly think anyone would have given a crap about it. I mean, that's what every parent wants, right? For their kid not to be killed or beaten for whatever.

 

[sirozha]

I used to have several nasty views that I changed because I evolved as a human being. Gay marriage hasn't destroyed any modern nation apart from getting the religious right's knickers in a twist. And I said that as someone who was a very church going Christian. I wouldn't say I'm an atheist now, agnostic maybe. I learned to live and let live.

But I do enjoy watching the plot of American Beauty unfold in this thread. If someone "turns" gay, they weren't straight to begin with.
[doublepost=1531179802][/doublepost]
It isn't what you said but how you say it. If you said "I wouldn't want my children being gay because society can still be viciously nasty to gay folks and I wouldn't want to see my children hurt by a stranger because of whomever they love," then I hardly think anyone would have given a crap about it. I mean, that's what every parent wants, right? For their kid not to be killed or beaten for whatever.

No, wrong. I am a Jew, and there is no more persecuted group than Jews. None. I know that because I lost more than half of my family to bigotry. Namely, to German Nazism.

Yet, I do want my son to be a Jew. So, no, cowardice is not the reason. I want my son to have a straight traditional sexual orientation. I want him to have children naturally with his wife. I do not want him to look at the gay lifestyle (or whatever you call it) as the model that he should be emulating. Call me a bigot. Case closed.

 

[0388631]

No, wrong. I am a Jew, and there is no more persecuted group than Jews. None.

Yet, I do want my son to be a Jew. So, no, that is not the reason.

I won't argue with you on that. What does your religion have to do with your son's sexuality? I know he's straight per your words, but still. I could understand your reasoning if you were Hasidic.

I don't mind Jews if that's what you're implying. My own grandparents took it upon themselves to save their friends and neighbors during the war. Even if it meant killing a 20 yo soldier. What I do have a problem with is someone being ridiculous.

 

[sirozha]

I won't argue with you on that. What does your religion have to do with your son's sexuality? I know he's straight per your words, but still. I could understand your reasoning if you were Hasidic.

I don't mind Jews if that's what you're implying. My own grandparents took it upon themselves to save their friends and neighbors during the war. Even if it meant killing a 20 yo soldier. What I do have a problem with is someone being ridiculous.

Yes, and that is you.

 

[0388631]

I want him to have children naturally with his wife. I do not want him to look at the gay lifestyle (or whatever you call it) as the model that he should be emulating. Call me a bigot. Case closed.

Because you're being ridiculous, let me put it in plain English. No one chooses to be gay. No one walks away from an easy life to take on a harder one that may get them killed, even in a liberal state like California. Second, if he turns out gay, then that's also fine. You might lose your cool over it. But, hey, I hope to God that his partner's parents end up being the parents he deserves and needs. I'll then pray for you and your soul, so when you do meet your maker, you can explain why you were the way you were, before he can decide what to do with you. Your own behavior would have pushed your own flesh and blood away, and as a Christian, even though I don't practice, is ****ing insane.

So, you called yourself a bigot. I can think of harsher words. I wish you good luck with your family and your perverse view of life. G'day sport.

 

[sirozha]

Because you're being ridiculous, let me put it in plain English. No one chooses to be gay. No one walks away from an easy life to take on a harder one that may get them killed, even in a liberal state like California. Second, if he turns out gay, then that's also fine. You might lose your cool over it. But, hey, I hope to God that his partner's parents end up being the parents he deserves and needs. I'll then pray for you and your soul, so when you do meet your maker, you can explain why you were the way you were, before he can decide what to do with you. Your own behavior would have pushed your own flesh and blood away, and as a Christian, even though I don't practice, is ****ing insane.

So, you called yourself a bigot. I can think of harsher words. I wish you good luck with your family and your perverse view of life. G'day sport.

I mean, according to your ideology, I am going to hell anyway. So, you don't need to pray for me; it's hopeless.

As for "no one chooses to be gay," I disagree with that premise. That is why I posted here so many times. I believe that some people do not choose to be gay, while others do. This is the only way to explain why over 50% of young people in the US and UK define themselves as non-straight at the end of the second decade of the 21st century (from the birth of your Lord).

As for being Chassidic, let's be real. Chassidim do not use secular web forums. So, don't be ridiculous. I'm not Chassidic, and my objection to my son choosing the gay lifestyle (or whatever you want to call it) has nothing to do with any religion. Yet, I fully support your rights as a gay Christian or whatever you define yourself. That makes me a bigot.

 

[0388631]

I mean, according to your ideology, I am going to hell anyway. So, you don't need to pray for me; it's hopeless.

As for "no one chooses to be gay," I disagree with that premise. That is why I posted here so many times. I believe that some people do not choose to be gay, while others do. This is the only way to explain why over 50% of young people in the US and UK define themselves as non-straight at the end of the second decade of the 21st century (from the birth of your Lord).

As for being Chassidic, let's be real. Chassidim do not use secular web forums. So, don't be ridiculous.

Or maybe because society has become more modern at time goes by and people not need to fear being attacked? But, hey, people who live in glass houses.

 

[sirozha]

Or maybe because society has become more modern at time goes by and people not need to fear being attacked? But, hey, people who live in glass houses.

OK. So, let's say it's natural for humans to identify as non-straight. In the past, they were scared to do so, and now they are free.

This means:
1. Gays are no longer persecuted and it's now cool to claim one's gayness.
2. Straight people are in a minority, so they need to be protected.

Therefore, I want my son to be part of a protected minority, which will guarantee the survival of the human species. Does it sound better? If it does, let's stick with this theory.

 

[0388631]

OK. So, let's say it's natural for humans to identify as non-straight. In the past, they were scared to do so, and now they are free.

This means:
1. Gays are no longer persecuted and it's now cool to claim one's gayness.
2. Straight people are in a minority, so they need to be protected.

Therefore, I want my son to be part of a protected minority, which will guarantee the survival of the human species. Does it sound better? If it does, let's stick with this theory.

Can't tell if you're taking the piss or are serious.

 

[tkermit]

some people do not choose to be gay, while others do. This is the only way to explain why over 50% of young people in the US and UK define themselves as non-straight at the end of the second decade of the 21st century

Where does this figure come from again?

 

[sirozha]

Where does this figure come from again?

I've already posted the link.
[doublepost=1531183601][/doublepost]

Can't tell if you're taking the piss or are serious.

I want you to call me a bigot and stop this nonsensical discussion.

 

[oldmacs]

Yet, I do want my son to be a Jew. So, no, cowardice is not the reason. I want my son to have a straight traditional sexual orientation. I want him to have children naturally with his wife. I do not want him to look at the gay lifestyle (or whatever you call it) as the model that he should be emulating. Call me a bigot. Case closed.

THERE IS NO GAY LIFESTYLE. People DO NOT CHOOSE to be Gay. Please do not conflate promiscuity or whatever you think it is and Gay people. They are not the same thing. There are plenty of Gay people who want to get married and have one partner if that is what you are getting at.

Your son will have the sexual orientation he is born with. Straight, Gay or Bisexual are all 'traditional' sexualities.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No, wrong. I am a Jew, and there is no more persecuted group than Jews. None. I know that because I lost more than half of my family to bigotry. Namely, to German Nazism.

Yet, I do want my son to be a Jew. So, no, cowardice is not the reason. I want my son to have a straight traditional sexual orientation. I want him to have children naturally with his wife. I do not want him to look at the gay lifestyle (or whatever you call it) as the model that he should be emulating. Call me a bigot. Case closed.

If your son turned out to be gay, would you rather he hide it from everybody and marry a woman he doesn’t love? Another question is; do you want your son to be happy or does that not matter as long as he doesn’t disappoint you?

 

[sirozha]

THERE IS NO GAY LIFESTYLE. People DO NOT CHOOSE to be Gay. Please do not conflate promiscuity or whatever you think it is and Gay people. They are not the same thing. There are plenty of Gay people who want to get married and have one partner if that is what you are getting at.

Your son will have the sexual orientation he is born with. Straight, Gay or Bisexual are all 'traditional' sexualities.

I never said that all gay people are promiscuous, did I? Why do you ascribe this to me?

Why are you guys all up in arms when I say “gay lifestyle”? There’s nothing insulting in this. If you marry a person of the same gender, this is a lifestyle. Marrying a person of the opposite gender is also a lifestyle. I conduct a heterosexual lifestyle. It was never meant as an insult.

My belief is that some people are born gay, while others choose to be gay. There is no study that can refute this belief of mine. You are free to disagree, of course, but you can’t refute it.
[doublepost=1531265219][/doublepost]

If your son turned out to be gay, would you rather he hide it from everybody and marry a woman he doesn’t love? Another question is; do you want your son to be happy or does that not matter as long as he doesn’t disappoint you?

If my son turns out to be gay or whatever, I will accept it. However, my job as his father is to shape him as a human being. Because I believe that some (not all) people may choose a gay lifestyle because of the influences in their lives, my job is to shield him from gay influences while his mind is too impressionable. That’s why I believe that any flaunting of the gay lifestyle, e.g. gratuitously pushing LGBTQ symbols onto the kids is designed to bring more young people to the fold of the gay lifestyle.

Obviously, this concern is perceived by you guys as bigotry. So, call it bigotry.

 

[oldmacs]

My belief is that some people are born gay, while others choose to be gay. There is no study that can refute this belief of mine. You are free to disagree, of course, but you can’t refute it.

You have no grounds to base this at all.

Do you believe all people choose their sexuality?

There are plenty of studies that suggest that sexuality is not something you can choose. There are bisexual and fluid people, but you are wrong about people choosing to be gay. No one chooses to be gay. People might have a preference for one gender if they are bisexual or fluid, but bisexual people are not gay. And again, people don’t choose to be bisexual.
[doublepost=1531265791][/doublepost]

I never said that all gay people are promiscuous, did I? Why do you ascribe this to me?

Why are you guys all up in arms when I say “gay lifestyle”? There’s nothing insulting in this. If you marry a person of the same gender, this is a lifestyle. Marrying a person of the opposite gender is also a lifestyle. I conduct a heterosexual lifestyle. It was never meant as an insult.

Well most people who invent the term of ‘Gay Lifestlye’ use this to condem Gay people based on certain stereotypes, so. Ma sorry if I assumed that is what you meant.

Lifestyle has connotations of choice, at least in my mind. I don’t consider marrying someone of the same gender a lifestyle. Gay people can have nearly the same life as straight people, just with someone of the opposite gender - hardly a different lifestyle.

I am up in arms because you are making things up about a subject you clearly don’t have that much understanding about.

 

[tkermit]

I never said that all gay people are promiscuous, did I? Why do you ascribe this to me?

Why are you guys all up in arms when I say “gay lifestyle”? There’s nothing insulting in this. If you marry a person of the same gender, this is a lifestyle. Marrying a person of the opposite gender is also a lifestyle. I conduct a heterosexual lifestyle. It was never meant as an insult.

My belief is that some people are born gay, while others choose to be gay. There is no study that can refute this belief of mine. You are free to disagree, of course, but you can’t refute it.
[doublepost=1531265219][/doublepost]
If my son turns out to be gay or whatever, I will accept it. However, my job as his father is to shape him as a human being. Because I believe that some (not all) people may choose a gay lifestyle because of the influences in their lives, my job is to shield him from gay influences while his mind is too impressionable. That’s why I believe that any flaunting of the gay lifestyle, e.g. gratuitously pushing LGBTQ symbols onto the kids is designed to bring more young people to the fold of the gay lifestyle.

Obviously, this concern is perceived by you guys as bigotry. So, call it bigotry.

Why would you ever choose a gay "lifestyle" if you weren't gay? I think you're confusing cause and effect. Why are you conducting a "heterosexual lifestyle"? Is it not because you are heterosexual? Assuming you're attracted to women, I would guess you don't feel like you've chosen to be attracted to women – that's just who you are.

 

[oldmacs]

If my son turns out to be gay or whatever, I will accept it. However, my job as his father is to shape him as a human being. Because I believe that some (not all) people may choose a gay lifestyle because of the influences in their lives, my job is to shield him from gay influences while his mind is too impressionable. That’s why I believe that any flaunting of the gay lifestyle, e.g. gratuitously pushing LGBTQ symbols onto the kids is designed to bring more young people to the fold of the gay lifestyle.

You have very little idea what it is like to grow up as a Gay person. I have been in counseling for 5 years now and am on medication to get me to get up in the morning, because my family is conservative and I can not come out. Do you know how much it hurts to see people say that they’re scared that their children will think being gay is cool and they will become gay? There is 0 advantage to being gay. There is no logical reason why children would choose to be gay, on top of the fact that it is well known and researched that people do not choose their sexuality anyway.

It sounds like your child will grow up not having a proper idea of the world. I was brought up the same way and it truly messed me up. I didn’t know there was such thing as Gay people till about 13 or so. And you know what, all it did was make things a million times worse. Just trying to normalise the idea of having a relationship with a man is a massive struggle because of this. Kids don’t need to understand sex, all they need to know is that some people love the opposite gender and some people love the same.

 

[sirozha]

You have no grounds to base this at all.

Do you believe all people choose their sexuality?

There are plenty of studies that suggest that sexuality is not something you can choose. There are bisexual and fluid people, but you are wrong about people choosing to be gay. No one chooses to be gay. People might have a preference for one gender if they are bisexual or fluid, but bisexual people are not gay. And again, people don’t choose to be bisexual.
[doublepost=1531265791][/doublepost]

Well most people who invent the term of ‘Gay Lifestlye’ use this to condem Gay people based on certain stereotypes, so. Ma sorry if I assumed that is what you meant.

Lifestyle has connotations of choice, at least in my mind. I don’t consider marrying someone of the same gender a lifestyle. Gay people can have nearly the same life as straight people, just with someone of the opposite gender - hardly a different lifestyle.

I am up in arms because you are making things up about a subject you clearly don’t have that much understanding about.

If you apply a modicum of common sense to this topic, you will see that you have no ground to stand on. If the belief is that most people are not binary but on a scale between heterosexuality and homosexuality, then it is ABSOLUTELY their CHOICE to go one way or the other (if they want to have a committed partner). Otherwise, they choose promiscuity and go both ways. Use a little common sense.
[doublepost=1531268397][/doublepost]

You have very little idea what it is like to grow up as a Gay person. I have been in counseling for 5 years now and am on medication to get me to get up in the morning, because my family is conservative and I can not come out. Do you know how much it hurts to see people say that they’re scared that their children will think being gay is cool and they will become gay? There is 0 advantage to being gay. There is no logical reason why children would choose to be gay, on top of the fact that it is well known and researched that people do not choose their sexuality anyway.

It sounds like your child will grow up not having a proper idea of the world. I was brought up the same way and it truly messed me up. I didn’t know there was such thing as Gay people till about 13 or so. And you know what, all it did was make things a million times worse. Just trying to normalise the idea of having a relationship with a man is a massive struggle because of this. Kids don’t need to understand sex, all they need to know is that some people love the opposite gender and some people love the same.

There is not ZERO advantage to being gay. That's ridiculous. There are certain areas of the country where there is very little incentive to be straight. In major cities on the West Coast (San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, etc.) being gay among teenagers is in vogue and extremely cool and being straight is old school and uncool. I know that because I have a niece who is in those circles on the West Coast, and her mom is now shocked to discover what goes on among teenagers there. Additionally, there are entire industries out there where being gay paves you a straight (pun intended) way to success.

I'm sorry you had such a traumatic experience with your parents. I grew up in a dysfunctional family myself with constant abuse, but the abuse had nothing to do with my sexuality. Abusive environments for kids don't have to involve kids' sexual orientation. You are not the only one who experienced abuse in your childhood and adolescence. You seem to be upset about your own sexual orientation. You no longer live with your parents. Get over it and get a life as a gay person. I support your right to live as a gay person. Afford me my right to shield my child from gratuitous gay lifestyle propaganda.

 

[oldmacs]

If you apply a modicum of common sense to this topic, you will see that you have no ground to stand on. If the belief is that most people are not binary but on a scale between heterosexuality and homosexuality, then it is ABSOLUTELY their CHOICE to go one way or the other (if they want to have a committed partner). Otherwise, they choose promiscuity and go both ways. Use a little common sense.

Nost people are not non-binary. As far as I know the majority are straight, followed by Gay, followed by bisexual.

There is not ZERO advantage to being gay. That's ridiculous. There are certain areas of the country where there is very little incentive to be straight. In major cities on the West Coast (San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, etc.) being gay among teenagers is in vogue and extremely cool and being straight is old school and uncool. I know that because I have a niece who is in those circles on the West Coast, and her mom is now shocked to discover what goes on among teenagers there. Additionally, there are entire industries out there where being gay paves you a straight (pun intended) way to success.

No that’s ridiculous. Being gay is not ‘vouge’ whatsoever in most places in the world. Maybe in select few places. For every supposed ‘advantage’ to being gay, there are a million disadvantages. High rates of mental health disorders, homelessness. Less chance of actually finding someone to fall in love with, the inability to have a child without adoption or surrogacy, the inability to marry in many places, the inability to have the same rights as straight people in many places. THe list goes on. There are entire countries where being gay paves you straight to a road of disaster.

THis is the biggest bucket of rubbish i’ve ever read. You are not a LGBTQ person so how on earth do you think you understand and know what it is to live the lives we do?

I'm sorry you had such a traumatic experience with your parents. I grew up in a dysfunctional family myself with constant abuse, but the abuse had nothing to do with my sexuality. Abusive environments for kids don't have to involve kids' sexual orientation. You are not the only one who experienced abuse in your childhood and adolescence. You seem to be upset about your own sexual orientation. You no longer live with your parents. Get over it and get a life as a gay person. I support your right to live as a gay person. Afford me my right to shield my child from gratuitous gay lifestyle propaganda.

You completely missed the point, told my story to demonstrate the downsides to being gay and the fact that no one would choose that, and the effect of neglecting educating your child about the world have on them.

You have no empathy whatsoever obviously. I still live with my parents. I am still not out to them and I don’t have the means to currently move out. I will probably get kicked out when they find out. Your clear lack of knowledge, empathy and understanding about the struggles of being gay are clear. Not everyone can simply get over it. Your lack of understanding seems to extend to lack of understanding over mental illnesses and there treatment.

You still haven’t explained what the Gay lifestyle is and what the propaganda is.

 

[AsherN]

If you apply a modicum of common sense to this topic, you will see that you have no ground to stand on. If the belief is that most people are not binary but on a scale between heterosexuality and homosexuality, then it is ABSOLUTELY their CHOICE to go one way or the other (if they want to have a committed partner). Otherwise, they choose promiscuity and go both ways. Use a little common sense.

That's not what a non-binary continuum is. Scale of 1-100. 1 is completely hetero, and 100 is completely gay, The majority of the population fall in the 1-20. A majority of gay and lesbians fall in the 80-100 category. and 80-100 categories. Those 2 groups will never even entertain the other type of relationship. A handful fall in the 40-60. Those are the bi. The only one that can have long term relationship either way. Those are truly a minority. The rest fall in the strongly one way or the other, but are open to try the other way.

Easily, 85% are in the 1-20, 10% are 80-100. Probably about 4% would try something different and less than 1% id trult bi, able to choose either type of relationship for the long term.

 

[Fugabutacus]

Anyone who truly believes being gay is a choice is bisexual, or else they are their own disproving evidence, and add on how bizarrely preoccupied these people are with the EVIL HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA you really just have to wonder whether certain people in this thread are being a bit OTT to compensate for the hot sweaty men gyrating around in their own heads.